1113 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I never saw a pro-mage member casting a "I've reported you" spell at a pro-templar because they didn't like what they seen.

I have 

As have I. I have also seen Templars use the Right of Reporting as well. 

[durasteel]

eluvianix wrote...

As have I. I have also seen Templars use the Right of Reporting as well. 

In kindergarten, there always seemed to be someone who felt the need to kick dirt on you, or mess up your game, or step on your toy. They would do everything in their power to make you mad, then when they succeeded they would sprint to the teacher and declare, with tears and a trembling lip, that you had called them a doo-doo head.

Decades have passed. Little has changed.

[Hellion Rex]

durasteel wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

As have I. I have also seen Templars use the Right of Reporting as well. 

In kindergarten, there always seemed to be someone who felt the need to kick dirt on you, or mess up your game, or step on your toy. They would do everything in their power to make you mad, then when they succeeded they would sprint to the teacher and declare, with tears and a trembling lip, that you had called them a doo-doo head.

Decades have passed. Little has changed.

That is a very apt analogy, at least for the worst templars.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Just a head of warning.. Pro-templars get rather butthurt when things don't go their way, and will throw a temper tantraum by saying that they've reported you when in fact they don't. It's all talk the talk but not walk the walk type of situation.

I'd say that can go both ways...

I never saw a pro-mage member casting a "I've reported you" spell at a pro-templar because they didn't like what they seen.

You havn't been here long have you?

[HiroVoid]

Well, did they report you because they didn't like something or because you were breaking the rules? I don't do it, but insults, hostile attitudes, etc. get thrown around here all the time. I personally think the forum would do good to crack down on all of these attitudes, but this is ultimately what the BSN is like.

[Hellion Rex]

Both sides report each other all the time, either justly or unjustly. Can we back on topic and drop the blame game - we get nowhere from playing it.

[Bardox9]

I am Pro Mage... to a point. When you get to the kirkwall level of screwed up, not so much. Once you have blood mages and demons pouring out of the circle for years and a First Enchanter blocking every attempt the Templars make to stop it, I find myself becoming highly anti-Mage of Kirkwall.

In the choice during Last Straw, it's very hard for me to sympathize with the Mages there. In Broken Circle of DA:O, I side with the mages everytime, but Kirkwall... Come on man. The RoA is going too far, but there are just too many "evil mages" coming out of that hell hole to back the single worst First Enchanter on the planet. And when Hawk learns Orsino covered for the guy that killed Leandra??? Oh hell no! You dead mothaf***er!

I only sided with the Kirkwall mages once and that was because on my second play through I left Bethany behind when I went into the deep roads. I'm not supporting them so much as I am supporting my baby sister. Without her, I cannot in good conscience support the mages of Kirkwall.

Generally speaking, I am pro-mage. But when they start talking about ruling the world, cutting off your moms head, or blowing up churches... they need to die.

DA:O - Support the Mages
DA 2 - Support the Templars
DA:I - Hmmm??? We shall see...

Modifié par Bardox9, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:58 .

[wolfhowwl]

Lord Raijin wrote...
Just a head of warning.. Pro-templars get rather butthurt when things don't go their way, and will throw a temper tantraum by saying that they've reported you when in fact they don't. It's all talk the talk but not walk the walk type of situation.

And yet pro-mage posters who don't indulge in personal attacks and trollish buffoonery also don't get reported.

Funny that.

It's almost like people are reacting negatively to your conduct, not the side you're arguing for.

[Hellion Rex]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
Just a head of warning.. Pro-templars get rather butthurt when things don't go their way, and will throw a temper tantraum by saying that they've reported you when in fact they don't. It's all talk the talk but not walk the walk type of situation.

And yet pro-mage posters who don't indulge in personal attacks and trollish buffoonery also don't get reported.

Funny that.

It's almost like people are reacting negatively to your conduct, not the side you're arguing for.

:innocent:

[Xilizhra]

In the choice during Last Straw, it's very hard for me to sympathize with the Mages there. In Broken Circle of DA:O, I side with the mages everytime, but Kirkwall... Come on man. The RoA is going too far, but there are just too many "evil mages" coming out of that hell hole to back the single worst First Enchanter on the planet. And when Hawk learns Orsino covered for the guy that killed Leandra??? Oh hell no! You dead mothaf***er!

Ah, yes, because allowing the Circle to be Annulled over that would be so much better. The casualties caused by Quentin were comparatively low compared to what Meredith would have done. Unfortunate, but we don't know that Orsino wasn't trying to stop it quietly. And Leandra being one of the victims is irrelevant; in a moral sense, her life isn't worth more than anyone else's.

[durasteel]

HiroVoid wrote...

Well, did they report you because they didn't like something or because you were breaking the rules? I don't do it, but insults, hostile attitudes, etc. get thrown around here all the time. I personally think the forum would do good to crack down on all of these attitudes, but this is ultimately what the BSN is like.

Y'know, if someone intentionally insults my race, gender, etc. it might be appropriate to report that.

If someone calls me an idiot, however, that argument should be able to stand or fall on its own merit. I really don't need a moderator to defend me on that count, thanks. And hostile attitudes? Man, no one is obliged to like me, agree with me, or pretend to do either.

Maybe I'm just an insensitive doo-doo head. I'll ask my wife.

[durasteel]

Xilizhra wrote...
Ah, yes, because allowing the Circle to be Annulled over that would be so much better. The casualties caused by Quentin were comparatively low compared to what Meredith would have done. Unfortunate, but we don't know that Orsino wasn't trying to stop it quietly. And Leandra being one of the victims is irrelevant; in a moral sense, her life isn't worth more than anyone else's.

Yeah, Orsino was not sympathetic, but that's beside the point. How many innocent mages like Bethany live in the Gallows? You're gonna let Meredith slaughter them all just because one mage--specifically an apostate who was NOT a member of the Circle--was a terrorist and a mass murderer? That's like saying everyone in my house should get their butts kicked because some jerk staying at the hotel down the street yelled at a waiter.

Annullment is total BS. There is no way anyone can justify murdering every mage in the circle, ever. Even Cullen, who was the biggest advocate of "kill 'em all!" in Origins, thought that Meredith was way over the line. I appreciate that it was possible to side with Meredith, and in the context of a video game it is a perfectly legitimate choice, but there is no way to support it as the "right" choice in any way.

[Xilizhra]

I still see Orsino as sympathetic, but I agree with the rest.

[Eber]

Icy Magebane wrote...

While I understand your point, I do not feel that it's right to treat mages, or anyone else, like criminals before they've committed a crime.  The thing I will agree on is that mages have the potential to become more threatening/destructive to society than any normal person.  This does not, however, give normal people the right to imprison them or take away their freedom to choose whether to be good or evil.

Would you still feel that way if demons taking over mages was much more common and abominations were much more potent? If any one abomination left to acquaint itself with the mundane world could threaten all life in it? Do you belive in those principles to a point where you would let a world burn for them or do you just advocate them in the Dragon Age universe where their implementation works out more or less perfectly fine?

Modifié par Eber, 10 novembre 2013 - 03:35 .

[Hellion Rex]

durasteel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Ah, yes, because allowing the Circle to be Annulled over that would be so much better. The casualties caused by Quentin were comparatively low compared to what Meredith would have done. Unfortunate, but we don't know that Orsino wasn't trying to stop it quietly. And Leandra being one of the victims is irrelevant; in a moral sense, her life isn't worth more than anyone else's.

Yeah, Orsino was not sympathetic, but that's beside the point. How many innocent mages like Bethany live in the Gallows? You're gonna let Meredith slaughter them all just because one mage--specifically an apostate who was NOT a member of the Circle--was a terrorist and a mass murderer? That's like saying everyone in my house should get their butts kicked because some jerk staying at the hotel down the street yelled at a waiter.

Annullment is total BS. There is no way anyone can justify murdering every mage in the circle, ever. Even Cullen, who was the biggest advocate of "kill 'em all!" in Origins, thought that Meredith was way over the line. I appreciate that it was possible to side with Meredith, and in the context of a video game it is a perfectly legitimate choice, but there is no way to support it as the "right" choice in any way.

I agree entirely.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

In the choice during Last Straw, it's very hard for me to sympathize with the Mages there. In Broken Circle of DA:O, I side with the mages everytime, but Kirkwall... Come on man. The RoA is going too far, but there are just too many "evil mages" coming out of that hell hole to back the single worst First Enchanter on the planet. And when Hawk learns Orsino covered for the guy that killed Leandra??? Oh hell no! You dead mothaf***er!

Ah, yes, because allowing the Circle to be Annulled over that would be so much better. The casualties caused by Quentin were comparatively low compared to what Meredith would have done. Unfortunate, but we don't know that Orsino wasn't trying to stop it quietly. And Leandra being one of the victims is irrelevant; in a moral sense, her life isn't worth more than anyone else's.

Orsino had over 7 years to get his Circle under control, eitehr he wasn't trying at all, or he was highly incompetent and underserving of his rank.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In the choice during Last Straw, it's very hard for me to sympathize with the Mages there. In Broken Circle of DA:O, I side with the mages everytime, but Kirkwall... Come on man. The RoA is going too far, but there are just too many "evil mages" coming out of that hell hole to back the single worst First Enchanter on the planet. And when Hawk learns Orsino covered for the guy that killed Leandra??? Oh hell no! You dead mothaf***er!

Ah, yes, because allowing the Circle to be Annulled over that would be so much better. The casualties caused by Quentin were comparatively low compared to what Meredith would have done. Unfortunate, but we don't know that Orsino wasn't trying to stop it quietly. And Leandra being one of the victims is irrelevant; in a moral sense, her life isn't worth more than anyone else's.

Orsino had over 7 years to get his Circle under control, eitehr he wasn't trying at all, or he was highly incompetent and underserving of his rank.

Or Meredith's paranoia helped to cause enough problems that Orsino could not even handle it.

[Heimdall]

eluvianix wrote...

Or Meredith's paranoia helped to cause enough problems that Orsino could not even handle it.

Can't we just agree that neither were best suited to their jobs, and lyrium idol tomfoolery didn't help?

Lets all just get along!

[EmperorSahlertz]

Meredith behavior didn't really change until act 3.

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I never saw a pro-mage member casting a "I've reported you" spell at a pro-templar because they didn't like what they seen.

I have 

As have I. I have also seen Templars use the Right of Reporting as well. 

You mean Right of Annulment

Anyhow it's sad to see people go this far when a debate is in progress. I know how heated up these kind of things can go, and for all good purpose when things get this heated up it's best to let go of the keyboard and drop that mouse, and go outside to smell the fresh air. It has worked for me countless of times.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You havn't been here long have you?

My joined date is 2013-05-27 so no. I haven't been here for that long. You however seem to have seen it all.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 10 novembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Or Meredith's paranoia helped to cause enough problems that Orsino could not even handle it.

Can't we just agree that neither were best suited to their jobs, and lyrium idol tomfoolery didn't help?

Lets all just get along!

Shall we sing a chorus of Kumbaya?

[Icy Magebane]

Eber wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

While I understand your point, I do not feel that it's right to treat mages, or anyone else, like criminals before they've committed a crime.  The thing I will agree on is that mages have the potential to become more threatening/destructive to society than any normal person.  This does not, however, give normal people the right to imprison them or take away their freedom to choose whether to be good or evil.

Would you still feel that way if demons taking over mages was much more common and abominations were much more potent? If any one abomination left to acquaint itself with the mundane world could threaten all life in it? Do you belive in those principles to a point where you would let a world burn for them or do you just advocate them in the Dragon Age universe where their implementation works out more or less perfectly fine?

If demonic possession was easier, and even people like Irving were at very high risk, then no, they'd need to stay in the Circles and things would have to be pretty much the same as they are right now (but with some kind of third party monitoring the Templars so they don't become abusive).  However, that is not the case, and as such, mages should be allowed the same basic freedoms as any other individuals, with certain limitations, such as training, providing phylacteries, regular meetings with some group (not necessarily Templars) to ensure they are on the straight and narrow, etc.

I do not advocate complete, unrestricted freedom for mages.  I am only saying that they should be treated as people and given a fair chance.  In the DA universe, mages are not guaranteed to become possessed and are not inherently more likely to cause harm to others (meaning: magic itself doesn't alter their minds in a negative way).

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Meredith behavior didn't really change until act 3.

Not true. And she got the idol in Act II as well.

[durasteel]

eluvianix wrote...

Or Meredith's paranoia helped to cause enough problems that Orsino could not even handle it.

I think it was Orsino's place to be involved in the efforts to remove Meredith from her position. Instead, Thrask had to deal with a nut-case like Grace, while Orsino wrung his hands and looked helpless.

[Heimdall]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Meredith behavior didn't really change until act 3.

Not true. And she got the idol in Act II as well.

She was using normal sword at the end of Act II though.