1113 réponses à ce sujet

[MWImexico]

@ eluvianix :

That's possible. I quote this from Dragon age wiki :

"At some point after Hawke accompanied Bartrand and Varric into the Primeval Thaig in the Deep Roads, Meredith was able to obtain the lyrium idol which they had discovered. She had this reforged into a sword for herself. However, the side effects of the lyrium it was composed of caused her to go insane, just like Bartrand. This exacerbated her paranoia and prejudices against mages, and tensions between herself and First Enchanter Orsino rose over the three years following the death of Viscount Marlowe Dumar. She had Kirkwall placed under martial law and blocked every attempt to replace Dumar. According to Ser Karras, she went as far as to request the Right of Annulment from the Divine in Val Royeaux in advance. "

from : http://dragonage.wik...redith_Stannard

Modifié par MWImexico, 10 novembre 2013 - 09:02 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

The very fact that the idol was in her possession should be ringing alarm bells. Bartrand, a dwarf that is supposed to be highly resistant to magic and lyrium, was influenced in a matter of seconds.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

The very fact that the idol was in her possession should be ringing alarm bells. Bartrand, a dwarf that is supposed to be highly resistant to magic and lyrium, was influenced in a matter of seconds.

We only know that she purchased it. We don't know if she was ever in actual contact with it yet. Given that she uses a plain ol' regular swords seems to indicate that she hasn't yet had any major connection with the idol yet. There is also the fact that she doesn't commit any heinous acts at all in that entire act.
The idol has shown to affect humans and Dwarves differently, I have no reason to beleive that it would corrupt Meredith instantly, just like it didn't corrupt Hawke.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

The very fact that the idol was in her possession should be ringing alarm bells. Bartrand, a dwarf that is supposed to be highly resistant to magic and lyrium, was influenced in a matter of seconds.

We only know that she purchased it. We don't know if she was ever in actual contact with it yet. Given that she uses a plain ol' regular swords seems to indicate that she hasn't yet had any major connection with the idol yet. There is also the fact that she doesn't commit any heinous acts at all in that entire act.
The idol has shown to affect humans and Dwarves differently, I have no reason to beleive that it would corrupt Meredith instantly, just like it didn't corrupt Hawke.

That is also a very good point. Although in Hawke's case, I would say plot armor.

edit: Scratch that. We know that she was at least near it, because Bartrand described how she looked, so she was at least neaby.

Modifié par eluvianix, 10 novembre 2013 - 09:17 .

[MWImexico]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

Perhaps the people with strong willpower are affected more slowly by the idol?
But I'm not sure about that since it's difficult to say if Meredith's politic was simply harsh in act 2 or if the knight-commander was already starting to lose her sanity because of the idol.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

The very fact that the idol was in her possession should be ringing alarm bells. Bartrand, a dwarf that is supposed to be highly resistant to magic and lyrium, was influenced in a matter of seconds.

We only know that she purchased it. We don't know if she was ever in actual contact with it yet. Given that she uses a plain ol' regular swords seems to indicate that she hasn't yet had any major connection with the idol yet. There is also the fact that she doesn't commit any heinous acts at all in that entire act.
The idol has shown to affect humans and Dwarves differently, I have no reason to beleive that it would corrupt Meredith instantly, just like it didn't corrupt Hawke.

That is also a very good point. Although in Hawke's case, I would say plot armor.

edit: Scratch that. We know that she was at least near it, because Bartrand described how she looked, so she was at least neaby.

The only description we get from Bartrand is "that woman". Hardly a very detailed description. Besides Bartrand was in Rivain when he sold the idol, I doubt that Meredith took the time to travel to Rivain to purchase the idol in person. I find it more likely that she had a courier take care of it, then had the idol send to some smithy, and then recieved her sword. After that it went downhill.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 10 novembre 2013 - 10:29 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think Bartrand describes Meredith as "cold as ice" or something like that. He definitely does use an expression that sounds like it's intended to refer to her personally in hindsight.

Cullen mentions at the start of Act 2 that the Knight Commander has become more reclusive and suspicious and says "I almost wonder if something has happened."

Meredith was always harsh though, even before the idol. Even at the start of the game the templars have gained more political power in Kirkwall than they are supposed to have under her leadership and in Act 1, if you bring Grace and the other Starkhaven mages back to the Circle Thrask says she has some of them executed at random.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which dastardly dastard acts did Meredith do, to warrant your questioning of her sanity as early as act 2?

The very fact that the idol was in her possession should be ringing alarm bells. Bartrand, a dwarf that is supposed to be highly resistant to magic and lyrium, was influenced in a matter of seconds.

We only know that she purchased it. We don't know if she was ever in actual contact with it yet. Given that she uses a plain ol' regular swords seems to indicate that she hasn't yet had any major connection with the idol yet. There is also the fact that she doesn't commit any heinous acts at all in that entire act.
The idol has shown to affect humans and Dwarves differently, I have no reason to beleive that it would corrupt Meredith instantly, just like it didn't corrupt Hawke.

That is also a very good point. Although in Hawke's case, I would say plot armor.

edit: Scratch that. We know that she was at least near it, because Bartrand described how she looked, so she was at least neaby.

The only description we get from Bartrand is "that woman". Hardly a very detailed description. Besides Bartrand was in Rivain when he sold the idol, I doubt that Meredith took the time to travel to Rivain to purchase the idol in person. I find it more likely that she had a courier take care of it, then had the idol send to some smithy, and then recieved her sword. After that it went downhill.

"Glittered like the sun, but her heart was cold as ice."
--- Bartrand
That sounds like someone who met Meredith firsthand.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, then Meredith went to Rivain. Not that it changes anything really. But apparently she wasn't so hard on the mages, that she couldn't take a vaction to Rivian to get her hands on the idol.

@Jedi Master of Orion
Not to nitpick but she has a number of them undergo the Rite of Tranquility at random, not execution. Some would say there is a difference.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I remember Thrask specifically using the word "executed."

[EmperorSahlertz]

I remeber it as Alain saying they were made Tranquil... Hmm this seems like a case for the Hardy boys!

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think I remember that too, but I thought it depended on what choice you made in the quest. Or at least part of it.

The first two times I did Errand of Mercy I used Varric or Funny Hawke to fool Ser Kerras and allow them to escape. My third Hawke was more pro-templar so he convinced Grace and the others to return to the Circle peacefully with the templars. I'm pretty sure that after that Thrask told me Meredith executed some at random to teach them a lesson. After that he says he regretted bringing them back. That didn't happen on my first two Hawke's runs.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 novembre 2013 - 12:18 .

[Hellion Rex]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I think I remember that too, but I thought it depended on what choice you made in the quest. Or at least part of it.

The first two times I did Errand of Mercy I used Varric or Funny Hawke to fool Ser Kerras and allow them to escape. My third Hawke was more pro-templar so he convinced Grace and the others to return to the Circle peacefully with the templars. I'm pretty sure that after that Thrask told me Meredith executed some at random to teach them a lesson. After that he says he regretted bringing them back. That didn't happen on my first two Hawke's runs.

I am pretty sure it was Tranquil in both situations, but I could be wrong.

[vpacheco1984]

They were executed.

[Hilarystamp]

So here's what I don't understand........people who do not have magic fear those that do because demons may control them. However in DA2 there were instances in which non mages could be controlled by demons or a different power. Like your companions in night terrors or Bertrand with the idol. I know mages can enter the fade and stuff but it seems as if non mages can be just as dangerous. So why just hate on mages?

[Hellion Rex]

Hilarystamp wrote...

So here's what I don't understand........people who do not have magic fear those that do because demons may control them. However in DA2 there were instances in which non mages could be controlled by demons or a different power. Like your companions in night terrors or Bertrand with the idol. I know mages can enter the fade and stuff but it seems as if non mages can be just as dangerous. So why just hate on mages?

The argument is that non mages being possessed is somewhat a lot more rare than a mage being possessed. And mostly they explain it away as being a mage's fault every time that a mage is the reason for the non mage being possessed. Although that was indeed the case of what Tarohne was doing.

[Hilarystamp]

eluvianix wrote...

Hilarystamp wrote...

So here's what I don't understand........people who do not have magic fear those that do because demons may control them. However in DA2 there were instances in which non mages could be controlled by demons or a different power. Like your companions in night terrors or Bertrand with the idol. I know mages can enter the fade and stuff but it seems as if non mages can be just as dangerous. So why just hate on mages?

The argument is that non mages being possessed is somewhat a lot more rare than a mage being possessed. And mostly they explain it away as being a mage's fault every time that a mage is the reason for the non mage being possessed. Although that was indeed the case of what Tarohne was doing.

i agree that mages have power to control non mages..... But in Tarohne she was just crazy to begin with. But the fact that she had magic just made her even worse? What about Ser Alrik? A non Mage who was clearly crazy, was using his position in the Templar to satisfy is own sick needs. Why do they not see that as bad or dangerous? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

Hilarystamp wrote...

So here's what I don't understand........people who do not have magic fear those that do because demons may control them. However in DA2 there were instances in which non mages could be controlled by demons or a different power. Like your companions in night terrors or Bertrand with the idol. I know mages can enter the fade and stuff but it seems as if non mages can be just as dangerous. So why just hate on mages?

The argument is that non mages being possessed is somewhat a lot more rare than a mage being possessed. And mostly they explain it away as being a mage's fault every time that a mage is the reason for the non mage being possessed. Although that was indeed the case of what Tarohne was doing.

The ONLY cases of a mundane being possesed is either because of a Demon having crossed the Veil, and thus being able to contact mundanes, or the work of Blood Magic. So generally a Mage is to blame for eery mundane who gets possessed.

[Hellion Rex]

Hilarystamp wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Hilarystamp wrote...

So here's what I don't understand........people who do not have magic fear those that do because demons may control them. However in DA2 there were instances in which non mages could be controlled by demons or a different power. Like your companions in night terrors or Bertrand with the idol. I know mages can enter the fade and stuff but it seems as if non mages can be just as dangerous. So why just hate on mages?

The argument is that non mages being possessed is somewhat a lot more rare than a mage being possessed. And mostly they explain it away as being a mage's fault every time that a mage is the reason for the non mage being possessed. Although that was indeed the case of what Tarohne was doing.

i agree that mages have power to control non mages..... But in Tarohne she was just crazy to begin with. But the fact that she had magic just made her even worse? What about Ser Alrik? A non Mage who was clearly crazy, was using his position in the Templar to satisfy is own sick needs. Why do they not see that as bad or dangerous? 

I am a pro mage and those are all very good questions. I understand that at some level, what it comes down to is the needs of the few versus the needs of the many, and they support the many.
Edit: Is that a fair assessment Emperor?

Modifié par eluvianix, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:22 .

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Hilarystamp wrote...

So here's what I don't understand........people who do not have magic fear those that do because demons may control them. However in DA2 there were instances in which non mages could be controlled by demons or a different power. Like your companions in night terrors or Bertrand with the idol. I know mages can enter the fade and stuff but it seems as if non mages can be just as dangerous. So why just hate on mages?

The argument is that non mages being possessed is somewhat a lot more rare than a mage being possessed. And mostly they explain it away as being a mage's fault every time that a mage is the reason for the non mage being possessed. Although that was indeed the case of what Tarohne was doing.

The ONLY cases of a mundane being possesed is either because of a Demon having crossed the Veil, and thus being able to contact mundanes, or the work of Blood Magic. So generally a Mage is to blame for eery mundane who gets possessed.

Yes, yes. Considering we only have two (?) very solid examples of non mages being actually possessed, the leader in the Free Marches and the Tarohne scenario, we can generally assume that most times mages can be at fault. But at the same time, demons being able to cross at weak points of the Veil is not exclusively a mages fault either. The veil can rip at points of high conflict, magic or no magic.

Modifié par eluvianix, 11 novembre 2013 - 03:21 .

[Hilarystamp]

Most case are probably mages are at fault. But it's still only by those who are greedy or just stupid. What about all the good ones? Don't they deserve a chance? Instead of being forced to a life they don't deserve.

[EmperorSahlertz]

We don't know wether or not the leader of Kaiten was a mage or not, but given that he becomes an Abomination (which is the very specific merger of a mage and a demon), chances are he was a mage all along, but had hidden his power from others.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We don't know wether or not the leader of Kaiten was a mage or not, but given that he becomes an Abomination (which is the very specific merger of a mage and a demon), chances are he was a mage all along, but had hidden his power from others.

But to hide it for so long? Especially when he must have been in the limelight, constantly seen by the public? That would take incalculable amounts of discipline.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Malcolm Hawke hid his talent for the wider world his entire life. Only a select few knew about his talents. It is not unheard of. Besides Viscount Khedra was corrupted over several years. Chances are he was possessed early on, and that the demon knew to remain hidden.