1113 réponses à ce sujet

[lil yonce]

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have all risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters, who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:32 .

[Rebel Wolf]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Because no one would listen to a better one.
Instead of figuring out better ways to deal with mages they anull or tranquil them.
If it was you wouldn't you want to fight back?

Modifié par Rebel Wolf, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:30 .

[Hellion Rex]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Technically, Ferelden is an iffy one because you don't necessarily have to call down the Rite.

[Hellion Rex]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

That will be important. But if mages like "they will accept us or die" adrian, or rebel wolf, have their way, it will only make things worse and worse.

But not all mages are like Adrian. There just as many like Irving and Rhys who can help temper the more hotheaded ones.

Also, don't forget the Red Templars attacking the innocent village. I don't expect the common people to notice the difference between the reds and the normal ones. The Templar Order will probably have damage control to do as well as the mages.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: C'mon now - didn't we have this discussion about my thoughts on generalization?

I had to balance "THEY were raping people for years."  Which you don't scold as a generalization I notice.

And you don't think there's going to be a large group of rebel mages going absolutely apecrap all over Thedas battling for "justice"?

I didn't say all the rebels were psychotic (though I all think they're horribly delusional)

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:49 .

[Hellion Rex]

Youth4Ever wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Considering Leliana was there at Andoral's Reach with the mage congregation at the end, Justinia knew full well what was happening. And Fiona also thought it prudent to mention the Divine's help when they take the final vote at the end as well.

And as Leliana is at Andoral's Reach, she hasn't yet reported to the Divine, and I doubt she'd take what transpired well. She's the Divine - the chantry head, and however compassionate she may be, she's still the leader of the church. Mage liberation is not going to fly with her, or those who have the power to oust her. Also, the Divine is ignorant of Adrian's and Fiona's actions at decision time.

If I remember correctly, the final vote took place a month or so after the White Spire events, so Leliana could have been communicating to her during that time. Also, Justinia is smart. Wynne, the last bastion of any real support against mage freedom had fallen. I think Justinia knew exactly how the vote would play out.

[Rebel Wolf]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: C'mon now - didn't we have this discussion about my thoughts on generalization?

I had to balance "THEY were raping people for years."  Which you don't scold as a generalization I notice.

And you don't think there's going to be a large group of rebel mages going absolutely apecrap all over Thedas battling for "justice"?

I didn't say all the rebels were psychotic (though I all think they're horribly delusional)

They aren't at all delusional just desperate to not to be abused.
How bad must the circles have been if they would rather die than be there?

Modifié par Rebel Wolf, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:53 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: C'mon now - didn't we have this discussion about my thoughts on generalization?

I had to balance "THEY were raping people for years."  Which you don't scold as a generalization I notice.

And you don't think there's going to be a large group of rebel mages going absolutely apecrap all over Thedas battling for "justice"?

I didn't say all the rebels were psychotic (though I all think they're horribly delusional)

Don't forget we have some Red Templar psychos running apecrap over Thedas too. It would seem that the Templar Order will also have to be doing some damage control as well.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Because no one would listen to a better one.
Instead of figuring out better ways to deal with mages they anull or tranquil them.
If it was you wouldn't you want to fight back?

It's called nonviolent resistence, and maybe if you weren't busy trying to burn every piece of good will people gave your cause, you'd be able to see why violent resistence is always going to lead to more trouble when you are in the minority of public opinion.

We already did that for 3 acts as we begged Elthina for mercy.

If elthina wasn't working then maybe the mages should have tried a different route. Send word to the divine, call a meeting of first enchanters. Draw public awareness of what's going on.

But instead they decided to being gurilla warfare campaigns and turned to blood magic, which is never a good idea no matter what the circumstances. 

And there wasn't nonviolent resistence going on, because only one mage was doing it, orsino. All the other mages were busy gearing up for war and carrying out covert operations against the templars. And even orsino ended up being an accomplish in a serial killing ritual of forbidden magic, so I don't see the nonviolent resistence being employed, just political backstabbing and covering tracks.

Another lie. Elthina was begged several times to take notice by Hawke and Orsino. AND THEY WERE RAPING PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

So somehow the divine doesn't exist? Letter writing doesn't exist? Calling a gathering of first enchanters doesn't exists? Orsino wasn't allowing quintin to continue his killings in his attempt to stich together a woman? There weren't blood mages using their powers against the templars, such as planting demons in them? There weren't blood mages operating in secret against the templars? 

I don't see how you can just declare my post a lie, when the only thing i got wrong was that hawke could, and that is the important part because players can also choose not to help the mages at all, the divine along with orsino.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they;re lying. Or do you think you and only you know the truth of what's going on.

EDIT: As a additional point. Your generalization of all templars being rapists, and using the word rapist as a shocker point to try and make the morality of anyone supporting the templars come into question, are offensive and morally bankrupt, and I see through your thinly veiled attempts to hide this fact.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:56 .

[lil yonce]

eluvianix wrote...
If I remember correctly, the final vote took place a month or so after the White Spire events, so Leliana could have been communicating to her during that time.

Perhaps but I doubt it. It must have taken them weeks just to travel from Val Royeaux to the edge of the empire and get set up.

Also, Justinia is smart. Wynne, the last bastion of any real support against mage freedom had fallen. I think Justinia knew exactly how the vote would play out.

Wynne wasn't dead at the time of the White Spire vote. The Divine makes her decision to intervene based on what she thinks Lambert must have done rather than on what actually happened. If she knew what happened, I don't think she's helping them escape.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:00 .

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: The Templars don't even count - they're all a bunch of loons. Drunk with power - crippled with fear.

I just hope a small faction (the ones who are basically not longer part of the Order ) has the good sense to join my Inquisition before they snort that red crap.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:55 .

[Hellion Rex]

Youth4Ever wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
If I remember correctly, the final vote took place a month or so after the White Spire events, so Leliana could have been communicating to her during that time.

Perhaps but I doubt it. It must have taken them weeks just to travel from Val Royeaux to the edge of the empire and get set up.

Also, Justinia is smart. Wynne, the last bastion of any real support against mage freedom had fallen. I think Justinia knew exactly how the vote would play out.

Wynne wasn't dead at the time of the White Spire vote.

I meant the vote at Andoral's Reach. Justinia knew that with Wynne gone, the final vote would swing towards the freedom path.

[Rebel Wolf]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Because no one would listen to a better one.
Instead of figuring out better ways to deal with mages they anull or tranquil them.
If it was you wouldn't you want to fight back?

It's called nonviolent resistence, and maybe if you weren't busy trying to burn every piece of good will people gave your cause, you'd be able to see why violent resistence is always going to lead to more trouble when you are in the minority of public opinion.

We already did that for 3 acts as we begged Elthina for mercy.

If elthina wasn't working then maybe the mages should have tried a different route. Send word to the divine, call a meeting of first enchanters. Draw public awareness of what's going on.

But instead they decided to being gurilla warfare campaigns and turned to blood magic, which is never a good idea no matter what the circumstances. 

And there wasn't nonviolent resistence going on, because only one mage was doing it, orsino. All the other mages were busy gearing up for war and carrying out covert operations against the templars. And even orsino ended up being an accomplish in a serial killing ritual of forbidden magic, so I don't see the nonviolent resistence being employed, just political backstabbing and covering tracks.

Another lie. Elthina was begged several times to take notice by Hawke and Orsino. AND THEY WERE RAPING PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

So somehow the divine doesn't exist? Letter writing doesn't exist? Calling a gathering of first enchanters doesn't exists? Orsino wasn't allowing quintin to continue his killings in his attempt to stich together a woman? There weren't blood mages using their powers against the templars, such as planting demons in them? There weren't blood mages operating in secret against the templars? 

I don't see how you can just declare my post a lie, when the only thing i got wrong was that hawke could, and that is the important part because players can also choose not to help the mages at all, the divine along with orsino.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they;re lying. Or do you think you and only you know the truth of what's going on.

The truth that mages were being sexually abused while no one stopped them?

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: The Templars don't even count - they're all a bunch of loons. Drunk with power - crippled with fear.

I just hope a small faction has the good sense to join my Inquisition before they snort that red crap.

Me too. Lord knows I could use some smart templars (Cullen ) to help deal with any demons and/or dumb mages who are mucking up my attempts to fix this mess.

[Medhia Nox]

@Rebel Wolf: Have you ever found a forumite that has suggested that Alrik shouldn't be punished for his crimes?

@eluvianix: Hmm... I should apply that "Oath Bound" concept to Mr. Cullen... you just find your own templar now.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:57 .

[Rebel Wolf]

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: The Templars don't even count - they're all a bunch of loons. Drunk with power - crippled with fear.

I just hope a small faction has the good sense to join my Inquisition before they snort that red crap.

Me too. Lord knows I could use some smart templars (Cullen ) to help deal with any demons and/or dumb mages who are mucking up my attempts to fix this mess.

Cullen who said "mages aren't people"
Yeah,that should end well.

[lil yonce]

eluvianix wrote...
I meant the vote at Andoral's Reach. Justinia knew that with Wynne gone, the final vote would swing towards the freedom path.

Added this in an edit: The Divine makes her decision to intervene based on what she thinks Lambert must have done rather than on what actually happened. If she knew what happened, I don't think she's helping the mages escape.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:59 .

[Afro_Explosion]

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Because no one would listen to a better one.
Instead of figuring out better ways to deal with mages they anull or tranquil them.
If it was you wouldn't you want to fight back?

It's called nonviolent resistence, and maybe if you weren't busy trying to burn every piece of good will people gave your cause, you'd be able to see why violent resistence is always going to lead to more trouble when you are in the minority of public opinion.

We already did that for 3 acts as we begged Elthina for mercy.

If elthina wasn't working then maybe the mages should have tried a different route. Send word to the divine, call a meeting of first enchanters. Draw public awareness of what's going on.

But instead they decided to being gurilla warfare campaigns and turned to blood magic, which is never a good idea no matter what the circumstances. 

And there wasn't nonviolent resistence going on, because only one mage was doing it, orsino. All the other mages were busy gearing up for war and carrying out covert operations against the templars. And even orsino ended up being an accomplish in a serial killing ritual of forbidden magic, so I don't see the nonviolent resistence being employed, just political backstabbing and covering tracks.

Another lie. Elthina was begged several times to take notice by Hawke and Orsino. AND THEY WERE RAPING PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

So somehow the divine doesn't exist? Letter writing doesn't exist? Calling a gathering of first enchanters doesn't exists? Orsino wasn't allowing quintin to continue his killings in his attempt to stich together a woman? There weren't blood mages using their powers against the templars, such as planting demons in them? There weren't blood mages operating in secret against the templars? 

I don't see how you can just declare my post a lie, when the only thing i got wrong was that hawke could, and that is the important part because players can also choose not to help the mages at all, the divine along with orsino.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they;re lying. Or do you think you and only you know the truth of what's going on.

The truth that mages were being sexually abused while no one stopped them?

It is common knowledge that the kirkwall circle was corrupted enough to allow this to happen, but is this all you got you keep on repeating the same thing.

[Rebel Wolf]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Rebel Wolf: Have you ever found a forumite that has suggested that Alrik shouldn't be punished for his crimes?

@eluvianix: Hmm... I should apply that "Oath Bound" concept to Mr. Cullen... you just find your own templar now.

Rotfl,you think it was only him?
At the very least more than a few knew about it.

[Medhia Nox]

@Rebel Wolf: Interesting how you don't care that Cullen was tortured.

So - torture is okay.

Rape means destroy the Chantry and kill all Templars.

Got it.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: C'mon now - didn't we have this discussion about my thoughts on generalization?

I had to balance "THEY were raping people for years."  Which you don't scold as a generalization I notice.

And you don't think there's going to be a large group of rebel mages going absolutely apecrap all over Thedas battling for "justice"?

I didn't say all the rebels were psychotic (though I all think they're horribly delusional)

Don't forget we have some Red Templar psychos running apecrap over Thedas too. It would seem that the Templar Order will also have to be doing some damage control as well.

Obviously. I fear the end result will be people fear all forms of magic, including lyrium, and outlaw the use or study of any and all forms of the subject. New groups arise who desire to destroy all knowledge and study of magic, burning books and destryong lyrium as they go, and mage children will be seen as impure abominations not to be allowed to live in a circle, but killed outright.

Basically, both sides decidin to throw away all caution in their desperation leading to an even worse group arising and ushering in a new reactionary age of ignorance.

[Rebel Wolf]

mx_keep13 wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Rebel Wolf wrote...
They will forced to change or die.

The Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Rivaini circles have risen up, and all have been annulled in the last ten years in-universe, and templars at the White Spire easily captured a group of First Enchanters who wouldn't have escaped the tower without the Divine's intervention. On what grounds is war the go to solution for mages?

Because no one would listen to a better one.
Instead of figuring out better ways to deal with mages they anull or tranquil them.
If it was you wouldn't you want to fight back?

It's called nonviolent resistence, and maybe if you weren't busy trying to burn every piece of good will people gave your cause, you'd be able to see why violent resistence is always going to lead to more trouble when you are in the minority of public opinion.

We already did that for 3 acts as we begged Elthina for mercy.

If elthina wasn't working then maybe the mages should have tried a different route. Send word to the divine, call a meeting of first enchanters. Draw public awareness of what's going on.

But instead they decided to being gurilla warfare campaigns and turned to blood magic, which is never a good idea no matter what the circumstances. 

And there wasn't nonviolent resistence going on, because only one mage was doing it, orsino. All the other mages were busy gearing up for war and carrying out covert operations against the templars. And even orsino ended up being an accomplish in a serial killing ritual of forbidden magic, so I don't see the nonviolent resistence being employed, just political backstabbing and covering tracks.

Another lie. Elthina was begged several times to take notice by Hawke and Orsino. AND THEY WERE RAPING PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

So somehow the divine doesn't exist? Letter writing doesn't exist? Calling a gathering of first enchanters doesn't exists? Orsino wasn't allowing quintin to continue his killings in his attempt to stich together a woman? There weren't blood mages using their powers against the templars, such as planting demons in them? There weren't blood mages operating in secret against the templars? 

I don't see how you can just declare my post a lie, when the only thing i got wrong was that hawke could, and that is the important part because players can also choose not to help the mages at all, the divine along with orsino.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they;re lying. Or do you think you and only you know the truth of what's going on.

The truth that mages were being sexually abused while no one stopped them?

It is common knowledge that the kirkwall circle was corrupted enough to allow this to happen, but is this all you got you keep on repeating the same thing.

Because they keep trying to say that we didn't try other options to get it to stop.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Hmm... I should apply that "Oath Bound" concept to Mr. Cullen... you just find your own templar now.

Back off. Cullen is mine.
He shall be my Oathkeeper.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

You keep using rape as a crux for your argument rebel wolf and I will have no choice but to report you for your offensive use of it as a buzz word.

[Rebel Wolf]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Rebel Wolf: Interesting how you don't care that Cullen was tortured.

So - torture is okay.

Rape means destroy the Chantry and kill all Templars.

Got it.

No,I don't care about creepy cullen.
Yes,an abusive system should be abolished.