1113 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

Maybe a facet of this issue is if you believe that mages, if given more freedom than allowed in the Circle, will repeat history or if you believe that the people of Thedas are smart enough to not let that happen again.

[Master Warder Z_]

[quote]vaire wrote...

[quote]Master Warder Z wrote...

No need for "sentimentality", your dreaded apocalypse has already started!
Don't worry, it wasn't sentimentality that caused it, but rage.
In fact for the Aequitarians to vote for independence the amount of rage must have been quite high.
Call me stupid but I'd rather have sentimentality than rage.

As for the cage people "require or deserve" apparently even their moderates, like Wynne, happen to disagree with you. Last time one group of people decided for another what cage they needed or deserved basing such judgement upon fear it didn't end well..[/quote]

The Mage Rebellion? No that is a far cry from a remarshalled imperium, Even in its present state the mages present less of a threat then the veil tears. So this isn't my view of what an "end of days" warrents, its merely an unforunate situation that will set the circle back decades.

And rage? Hardly it was stupidity, greed and blind ambition from a mage who decided it would be fun to stick a knife into a tranquil and blame it on a enchanter.

And last i recalled Wynne and the entirity of the loyalist faction pre revolt were entirely pro circle so i don't see your agrument here.



[/quote]

Oh, so is the Imperium you are scared of... Do you realize that such a thing is like fearing the return of the Roman empire in the Middle Ages? XD
Highly unlikely, if not for anything else for the fact it is an agonizing corpse by now and its system doesn't work anymore. Hystory does not go back on its tracks easily.

As for stupidity greed and ambition you are again wrong, it was because mages realized they would not be trusted by the Chantry no matter how much they bowed and scraped to. Rhys (Wynne's son) took over as the leader of the Aequitarians (Wynne's faction) and his vote was for indipendence so: yes the Aequitarians are now (officially) pro independence.
The more you know.[/quote]

The Qunari are the only thing holding the Imperium in place, it is the only thing that is holding back the might of an empire that at one point controlled 90% of the known world short of their northern borders and a scant few countries that were either non existant during their heyday or were too far away to matter.

So i don't view your Anologue as accurate personally.

You think i am unaware? As i stated Pre Rebellion, The Loyalist, Aequitarians were staunch pro circle, my point is this. By the point they agreed to be pro indepedence? Well...Lets think back shall we? Fiona and that moron Rhy's basically said "Your dead to me now" at the end of said novel to, Basically screwed over every mage under the white divine anyway.

So its not them making a gallant stand for freedom, no its merely self preservation.

[SgtSteel91]

Master Warder Z wrote...

I suppose that is your view, i personally view it as a fairly pleasant world for the most apart aside from a few annoyances here and there.

"Better" By making it more like "Reality?" That's sort of negating the point of Bioware crafting an indepth world with its own culture and belief systems when you merely go "I don't agree with these people! I'm gona the world derp!" 

But do as you will, it doesn't sway me.

Well you could sort of flip the table on established beliefs in Dragon Age Origins by supporting Bhelen or not letting Alistair be King. And you could definitely do it in Mass Effect, a similar game by Bioware with its own cultures and belief systems, up to the point of altering life itself at the genetic level if you so desired. So it's not like going against beliefs is "playing the game wrong" or whatever you were getting at.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 19 décembre 2013 - 12:21 .

[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Maybe a facet of this issue is if you believe that mages, if given more freedom than allowed in the Circle, will repeat history or if you believe that the people of Thedas are smart enough to not let that happen again.

Or maybe i just believe there shouldn't be a choice offered.

[SgtSteel91]

Master Warder Z wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Maybe a facet of this issue is if you believe that mages, if given more freedom than allowed in the Circle, will repeat history or if you believe that the people of Thedas are smart enough to not let that happen again.

Or maybe i just believe there shouldn't be a choice offered.

That too.

It's becoming clear to me that we are never going have similar beliefs in regards to this issue. Oh well, it's not like Dragon Age is a coop game anyway. I guess agree to disagree?

[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Maybe a facet of this issue is if you believe that mages, if given more freedom than allowed in the Circle, will repeat history or if you believe that the people of Thedas are smart enough to not let that happen again.

Or maybe i just believe there shouldn't be a choice offered.

That too.

It's becoming clear to me that we are never going have similar beliefs in regards to this issue. Oh well, it's not like Dragon Age is a coop game anyway. I guess agree to disagree?

Fine with me 

Quite used to not having every one on board with my beliefs and idea's.

Honestly to use a universe you brought up, I was a staunch supporter of Cerberus within Mass Effect, That sort of earned me some questioning here and there and not mention a ridicious amount of debate.

But i think that's one of the good things about Bioware games, Every one plays the same expreince and yet comes away with entirely diffrent beliefs and morals on a given subject.

[The Baconer]

Master Warder Z wrote...
I never claimed Thedas a bastion of this realities mortality, sense of justice or even base human rights.

It is its own plane with its own views and beliefs on things.

Exactly, who's to say that being born without magic is the true curse?

[Master Warder Z_]

The Baconer wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
I never claimed Thedas a bastion of this realities mortality, sense of justice or even base human rights.

It is its own plane with its own views and beliefs on things.

Exactly, who's to say that being born without magic is the true curse?

A good majority of the non imperium population...

._.

[Medhia Nox]

I support mages...

with a stake through the anus.

Too soon for Vlad Tepes jokes?

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 19 décembre 2013 - 01:22 .

[Plaintiff]

Master Warder Z wrote...
I never claimed Thedas a bastion of this realities mortality, sense of justice or even base human rights.

It is its own plane with its own views and beliefs on things.

So was Soviet Russia. What's your point?

[Master Warder Z_]

Plaintiff wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
I never claimed Thedas a bastion of this realities mortality, sense of justice or even base human rights.

It is its own plane with its own views and beliefs on things.

So was Soviet Russia. What's your point?

Differing morality and culture doesn't automatically equate to "inferior morality and culture" That's my point.

.-. Just because it isn't how you personally would do things doesn't make it inferior.

[Afro_Explosion]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
I never claimed Thedas a bastion of this realities mortality, sense of justice or even base human rights.

It is its own plane with its own views and beliefs on things.

So was Soviet Russia. What's your point?

Differing morality and culture doesn't automatically equate to "inferior morality and culture" That's my point.

.-. Just because it isn't how you personally would do things doesn't make it inferior.

But if how they do things involve human rights violations it is inferior. 

[HiroVoid]

What international body in Thedas has declared these human rights?

[The Baconer]

Master Warder Z wrote...
A good majority of the non imperium population...

._.

The majority believes that elves shouldn't be able to legally own land. If the majority of slaves in Tevinter believed their lives were fine because they've never known any other life (like Orana), would you be content with their treatment?

[Dave of Canada]

mx_keep13 wrote...

But if how they do things involve human rights violations it is inferior. 

Except "human rights" are completely irrelevant.

[Plaintiff]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
I never claimed Thedas a bastion of this realities mortality, sense of justice or even base human rights.

It is its own plane with its own views and beliefs on things.

So was Soviet Russia. What's your point?

Differing morality and culture doesn't automatically equate to "inferior morality and culture" That's my point.

.-. Just because it isn't how you personally would do things doesn't make it inferior.

Ignoring oppression and genocide occuring in another country, even a fictional one, just because "their culture is different", is one of the most ignorant, despicable things a person can do.

[Veruin]

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

[Medhia Nox]

@Dave of Canada: "Sapient Rights" would still possibly form on a planet with more than one sapient species.

That is - if they somehow managed to co-exist, which I don't believe would ever genuinely be possible.

[Afro_Explosion]

The basic concept of morality isn't foreign to thedas.

Modifié par mx_keep13, 19 décembre 2013 - 01:48 .

[Senya]

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

Freedom.

[Veruin]

mx_keep13 wrote...

The basic concept of human rights isn't foreign to thedas.

According to who?

[Master Warder Z_]

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

Tell me about it.

[HiroVoid]

mx_keep13 wrote...

The basic concept of human rights isn't foreign to thedas.

Chevaliers are seen as having the rights to do just about what they please in Orlais as long as they go out and fight or do whatever they do.  Tevinter openly practices with slavery with nobody caring as long as they don't invade their land to do so.  Elves are the victims of racism by just about everybody.  Thedas's human rights concepts are certainly still not equal to our own and expecting especially the common people to see them in that light is foolhardy.  It's like people talking about how democracy needs to start up overnight.  I doubt even most nobles have put even a thought into it let along the common folk.

[AresKeith]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

Tell me about it.

Pretty much the root of the Mage/Templar discussions, plus the Dalish

[The Elder King]

@HiroVoid: you forgot to mention the caste system in Orzammar. Or the qunari's treatment of mages.
Thedas is a pretty terrible place.

Modifié par hhh89, 19 décembre 2013 - 01:48 .