1113 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@HiroVoid: That still doesn't make the average person incapable of understanding cruelty vs. compassion (a trait far older than any modern notion of human rights).

The problem is - mages have no real world equivalent, and shoehorning one in is simply chip on the shoulder projection.

Elves don't either - they're an entirely separate sapient species. They simply cannot co-exist with any other. Dwarves "work" because they inhabit areas inhospitable to humans. Qunari don't "work" - they're at constant odds - though they have found inter-species unity through the Qun.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 19 décembre 2013 - 01:49 .

[HiroVoid]

hhh89 wrote...

@HiroVoid: you forgot to mention the caste system in Orzammar.

Oh right.  Yeah.  And of course the Qunari being forced in career paths.  It's also implied city elves arrange marriages rather than usually having the freedom to do so.  I believe the city elf's cousin was also the target of hatred for marrying a female human.

[Senya]

I think elves could work through reform. Them trying to take back the Sales would backfire, though.

[The Elder King]

HiroVoid wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@HiroVoid: you forgot to mention the caste system in Orzammar.

Oh right.  Yeah.  And of course the Qunari being forced in career paths.  It's also implied city elves arrange marriages rather than usually having the freedom to do so.  I believe the city elf's cousin was also the target of hatred for marrying a female human.

I'm not sure. If he married one, he probably was criticized. It's one to the few things city elves and dalish have in common.

[Master Warder Z_]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@HiroVoid: That still doesn't make the average person incapable of understanding cruelty vs. compassion (a trait far older than any modern notion of human rights).

The problem is - mages have no real world equivalent, and shoehorning one in is simply chip on the shoulder projection.

Elves don't either - they're an entirely separate sapient species. They simply cannot co-exist with any other. Dwarves "work" because they inhabit areas inhospitable to humans. Qunari don't "work" - they're at constant odds - though they have found inter-species unity through the Qun.

We wait until every one is united under the greater good.

For the Glory of the Tau!

[Master Warder Z_]

AresKeith wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

Tell me about it.

Pretty much the root of the Mage/Templar discussions, plus the Dalish

I try to view the world through my various PC's whenever i am in the world, i also attempt the same when dicussing it.

Metagaming and AU don't interest me much.

If people want a reality based dicussion, pick a topic based in reality i say.

[The Baconer]

Medhia Nox wrote...
The problem is - mages have no real world equivalent, and shoehorning one in is simply chip on the shoulder projection.

Right, so why is the enslavement of mundanes a bad thing?

[Plaintiff]

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

And it's perfectly valid to do so.

There's no reason why logic, commonsense and basic human decency should be absent from Thedas.

[Veruin]

Plaintiff wrote...

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

And it's perfectly valid to do so.

There's no reason why logic, commonsense and basic human decency should be absent from Thedas.

Because it's a fantasy world, as you have said "Just because fire is in a fantasy world, doesn't mean I should assume it works like our world".  But, I forget that fantasy can ONLY be fantasy when it doesn't conflict with your equality agenda.

Modifié par Veruin, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:04 .

[HiroVoid]

Plaintiff wrote...

Veruin wrote...

People continue to apply real world views to that of a fantasy video game world. How typical.

And it's perfectly valid to do so.

There's no reason why logic, commonsense and basic human decency should be absent from Thedas.

Because the writers wrote it that way?

[Plaintiff]

Master Warder Z wrote...
I try to view the world through my various PC's whenever i am in the world, i also attempt the same when dicussing it.

I roleplay y characters as individuals with brains, who are capable of recognizing injustice and critiquing it.

As for discussions; why would I adopt the perspective of an ignorant peasant when I know better?

[Il Divo]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The problem is - mages have no real world equivalent, and shoehorning one in is simply chip on the shoulder projection. .

Human + gun permanently attached to his person?

I suppose we don't have a clear equivalent, but I think gun control arguments work exceptionally well in this context.

[Master Warder Z_]

Plaintiff wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
I try to view the world through my various PC's whenever i am in the world, i also attempt the same when dicussing it.

I roleplay y characters as individuals with brains, who are capable of recognizing injustice and critiquing it.

As for discussions; why would I adopt the perspective of an ignorant peasant when I know better?

And you spoke to me of being a sociopath that is delious right there.

And i sort of agree, This whole mindset that despite this being a foreign reality where my views don't matter except when i am spewing my version of "equality" is a bit cliched.

But you can continue to "critque" a foreign system like it was one based in reality and i will continue to try to be objective and view from in game.

Unless if a dicussion comes for otherwise though.

[Plaintiff]

Veruin wrote...
Because it's a fantasy world, as you have said "Just because fire is in a fantasy world, doesn't mean I should assume it works like our world".  But, I forget that fantasy can ONLY be fantasy when it doesn't conflict with your equality triade.

edited: removed inflammatory content ~Mod05

HiroVoid wrote...
Because the writers wrote it that way?

Except they clearly didn't, because they gave me the option to have my characters reject the dominant ideologies espoused by the tyrannical powers of Thedosian society.

There's nothing inherently "modern" about my perspective, anyway. The concepts I uphold have been espoused by various individuals throughout history, dating back to ancient times.

Modifié par BioWareMod05, 19 décembre 2013 - 03:00 .

[Afro_Explosion]

So any good reason mages should stay in circles

Modifié par mx_keep13, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:23 .

[HiroVoid]

mx_keep13 wrote...

So any good reasons mages should stay in circles

Even most pro-mage supporters agree that it should be mandatory for them to stay at circles at least until they complete their education, so they should at least stay around for the purpose of preparing mages.

[Dave of Canada]

The Baconer wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
The problem is - mages have no real world equivalent, and shoehorning one in is simply chip on the shoulder projection.

Right, so why is the enslavement of mundanes a bad thing?

Majority > Minority.

[Afro_Explosion]

HiroVoid wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

So any good reasons mages should stay in circles

Even most pro-mage supporters agree that it should be mandatory for them to stay at circles at least until they complete their education, so they should at least stay around for the purpose of preparing mages.

 I've observed most splitting factor is the role of templars in the everyday life of a mage.

[Plaintiff]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
The problem is - mages have no real world equivalent, and shoehorning one in is simply chip on the shoulder projection.

Right, so why is the enslavement of mundanes a bad thing?

Majority > Minority.

Why?

[HiroVoid]

mx_keep13 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

So any good reasons mages should stay in circles

Even most pro-mage supporters agree that it should be mandatory for them to stay at circles at least until they complete their education, so they should at least stay around for the purpose of preparing mages.

 I've observed most splitting factor is the role of templars in the everyday life of a mage.

Most of that debate goes down to how much power they should have when being involved in the routines of mages.  In most cases, people have generally agreed that having an anti-magic warrior group is still a useful faction to have for mages who go off the deep end or are actually criminals.

[The Baconer]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Majority > Minority.

The majority doesn't decide where and when to go to war, who gets to own land and who doesn't, the rate of taxation, who gets to hunt in this land or grow crops in that land, or the flow of goods between borders.

If their opinion mattered, Tevinter would have ceased to be a state long ago.

[Afro_Explosion]

HiroVoid wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

So any good reasons mages should stay in circles

Even most pro-mage supporters agree that it should be mandatory for them to stay at circles at least until they complete their education, so they should at least stay around for the purpose of preparing mages.

 I've observed most splitting factor is the role of templars in the everyday life of a mage.

Most of that debate goes down to how much power they should have when being involved in the routines of mages.  In most cases, people have generally agreed that having an anti-magic warrior group is still a useful faction to have for mages who go off the deep end or are actually criminals.

There is also debate about who control the templars are they autonomous, does the monarchy control them, or does the cirlce hold the power like in tevinter.

[Dave of Canada]

Plaintiff wrote...

Why?

Logistics.

Mages enslave the mundanes, mundanes hate mages, mundanes overthrow mages and slavery is made illegal by religion founded by slaves.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 décembre 2013 - 02:39 .

[dragonflight288]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Why?

Logistics.

Mages enslave the mundanes, mundanes hate mages, mundanes overthrow mages and slavery is made illegal by religion founded by slaves.

The Chantry wasn't founded by slaves since it rose nearly a century after Andraste's death. There's a full generation and a half of free men and women...so to speak since the Chantry was chosen out of MANY Andrastian cults to help him conquer everyone else and build up Orlais.

[Dave of Canada]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Chantry wasn't founded by slaves since it rose nearly a century after Andraste's death. There's a full generation and a half of free men and women...so to speak since the Chantry was chosen out of MANY Andrastian cults to help him conquer everyone else and build up Orlais.

The sentiments which led to the Chantry wasn't born a century after though, it was something which lingered with nearly everyone vehemently opposed to Tevinter and mages in general. The Chantry's foundations just gave those sentiments form, I'm sure there were other cults which might've been more leniant but people didn't need religion to go on witch hunts.

The religion just helped put everyone under one banner.