1113 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

Jaison1986 wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Wynne is one of those few mages who actually tries to find a peaceful solution. This is the very reason why I have so much respect for her.

On the other hand we have fools like Anders and Adrian who shatter what little peace was achieved simply because they deem it to be the only path to take.

Both my Warden and my Mage Hawke were like Wynne, who tried to keep the situation under control in their own way.

In my Warden's case(Human Noble), it wasn't hard to do so, Knight-Commander Greagoir was a fairly reasonable person. He let me handle the situation and listen to what I had to say at the end. Thank goodness Cullen wasn't in his place at that time.

My Mage Hawke tried a lot to as well, unfortunately betrayed his close friend, and failed. It was sad to see how many turned to Blood Magic and started summoning demons after I decided to try and save as many innocent mages I can. Hopefully, some like Alain at least survived at the end.

It's funny how I did the exact same thing Rhys did when Adrian betrayed him, and I didn't even read the book then. I let Anders live. Death would be too easy an escape for these bastards.

That "peace" you are talking about comes with the cost of a lot of abuses and taking many freedoms from mages. I personally think it's an pipe dream as long as the Chantry have any power over the mages. But if they are taken out of the picture along with the templars, then that's another story.

Achieving such a peace always requires one to be able to bear the difficulties that come with the path they choose to achieve it in. If the path taken is war, then the blood will be shed by both the ones waging the war, as well as innocents who are forced to be at the center of it. Not to mention, all war does is remove any other options to acquire a resolution to the problem that was the cause of it. 

[DarthSideus2]

Apostates unite!!!!

[dragonflight288]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Except Wynne isn't anti-Circle and actually encouraged a peaceful solution. I doubt that changed.

Fiona advocated autonomy for the Circles. If the mage protagonist says that the Circle is an "oppressive place", Wynne's retort is that The Warden can change that by returning to the Circle and becoming a leader; in the City of Amaranthine, Wynne cautions against the autonomy of the Circles because she says the Chantry would rather kill all the mages instead of seeing them free.

Change it not dismantle it.

True, but that doesn't decrease the despicability of those who would rather kill an entire race of people based on a trait they're born with rather than see them autonomous.

[Apostate 94]

Rassler wrote...

EcreipRellim wrote...

Yet again I'll play a violent demon loving blood mage that eats templars for breakfast!

Blood magic is overrated. Why not ask Anders to provide you with another spirit of Justice? Me dancing with meredith, one with Justice:

This kind of thing had better be in Inquisition. Run about as a mage with a fade spirit doing fade stuff and b*tchslapping Templars who look at me wrong...with blood magic because my first mage will be a mainstreamer and join in the fun.

 

[Br3admax]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Except Wynne isn't anti-Circle and actually encouraged a peaceful solution. I doubt that changed.

Fiona advocated autonomy for the Circles. If the mage protagonist says that the Circle is an "oppressive place", Wynne's retort is that The Warden can change that by returning to the Circle and becoming a leader; in the City of Amaranthine, Wynne cautions against the autonomy of the Circles because she says the Chantry would rather kill all the mages instead of seeing them free.

Change it not dismantle it.

True, but that doesn't decrease the despicability of those who would rather kill an entire race of people based on a trait they're born with rather than see them autonomous.

I think I can effectively say that the choice of action Fiona took didn't save anyone's life anymore than finding a middle ground between Chantry rule and Magi autonomy.

Also, mages are their own race now? 

Modifié par Br3ad, 22 octobre 2013 - 12:49 .

[Xilizhra]

Achieving such a peace always requires one to be able to bear the difficulties that come with the path they choose to achieve it in. If the path taken is war, then the blood will be shed by both the ones waging the war, as well as innocents who are forced to be at the center of it. Not to mention, all war does is remove any other options to acquire a resolution to the problem that was the cause of it.

There was no other option to begin with, not after the templars left.

[Lord Raijin]

Do you believe in magic? I know I do

[Sir DeLoria]

Any other moderate mage supporters here? Peace with the Templars, reformed Circle? No? Oh well...

[Xilizhra]

That's not really much of a way to support mages.

We are the moderate ones. The extreme ones are Tevinter.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 octobre 2013 - 02:24 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not really much of a way to support mages.

We are the moderate ones. The extreme ones are Tevinter.

I sympathize with both sides equally. Both have good reasons and motivations. Of course there are evil extremists(e.g. Anders, Meredith). But the model Irving and Greagoir hold is excellent.

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not really much of a way to support mages.

We are the moderate ones. The extreme ones are Tevinter.

I sympathize with both sides equally. Both have good reasons and motivations. Of course there are evil extremists(e.g. Anders, Meredith). But the model Irving and Greagoir hold is excellent.

Sadly, the templars are an extreme all on their own, now.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not really much of a way to support mages.

We are the moderate ones. The extreme ones are Tevinter.

I sympathize with both sides equally. Both have good reasons and motivations. Of course there are evil extremists(e.g. Anders, Meredith). But the model Irving and Greagoir hold is excellent.

Sadly, the templars are an extreme all on their own, now.

And they need to be saved from themselves. Some people tend to demonize them, but they are just misguided. 

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not really much of a way to support mages.

We are the moderate ones. The extreme ones are Tevinter.

I sympathize with both sides equally. Both have good reasons and motivations. Of course there are evil extremists(e.g. Anders, Meredith). But the model Irving and Greagoir hold is excellent.

Sadly, the templars are an extreme all on their own, now.

And they need to be saved from themselves. Some people tend to demonize them, but they are just misguided. 

It's not a given that they all need to die. They will not, however, resume their former position of power; it was unearned anyway and has now been well-lost.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

I sympathize with both sides equally. Both have good reasons and motivations. Of course there are evil extremists(e.g. Anders, Meredith). But the model Irving and Greagoir hold is excellent.

Sadly, the templars are an extreme all on their own, now.

And they need to be saved from themselves. Some people tend to demonize them, but they are just misguided. 

It's not a given that they all need to die. They will not, however, resume their former position of power; it was unearned anyway and has now been well-lost.

I disagree, the model in the Circle of Fereldan works well, both sides need to be balanced. Disturbing the balance will just cause misery.

[Lord Raijin]

I would classified myself as being a moderate Mage supporter. I believe in the freedom of mages from the Chantry control, but at the same time I'm anti slavery.

I do not believe that blood magic is completely evil as it could be use for good. The Circle should be used ONLY for educational purpose, and never to be used as a prison. If a mage of the circle is caught using their magic to intentionally inflict harm to others the First Enchanter should have the final saying. Determine the outcome the F.E could request assistance from the Templars (The Chantry) to deal with the mage... to either undergo the rite of tranquility or ship the bad mage off to Chantry run prison like Aeonar where they officially become prisoners of the Chantry.

Mages should be given a chance to live among the rest of the society. If the Mage decides to become criminals by using their magic to harm others then I have the full support of the templars to deal with the situation.

[Cainhurst Crow]

So who here thinks the rest of thedas should submit back to tevinter enslavement? Afterall, it was their land their property now walks around freely on, all because some crazy woman with a anti-tevinter-centric bias imposed her will on everyone else. Maybe all of thedas liked being slaves huh? Why doesn't anyone bring that up?

[dragonflight288]

Br3ad wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Except Wynne isn't anti-Circle and actually encouraged a peaceful solution. I doubt that changed.

Fiona advocated autonomy for the Circles. If the mage protagonist says that the Circle is an "oppressive place", Wynne's retort is that The Warden can change that by returning to the Circle and becoming a leader; in the City of Amaranthine, Wynne cautions against the autonomy of the Circles because she says the Chantry would rather kill all the mages instead of seeing them free.

Change it not dismantle it.

True, but that doesn't decrease the despicability of those who would rather kill an entire race of people based on a trait they're born with rather than see them autonomous.

I think I can effectively say that the choice of action Fiona took didn't save anyone's life anymore than finding a middle ground between Chantry rule and Magi autonomy.

Also, mages are their own race now? 

While it's true that Fiona didn't really do much to save lives, everything she did was legal.

As for mages being their own race, well not really. They're humans, elves and kossith who just happen to have magic. I used the term simply because the Chantry and the templars have made it a habit to treat all mages as the same. Many templar supporters also act that because the Tevinter Magisters did it then it's only inevitable that every other mage will do the same, or think the same.

And then it always turns into "them or us" arguments, and mages in general often get treated as seperate entitities compared to others of their respective races.

A right of annulment, for instance, is the sanctioned genocide of all mages, even the children. Guilty or innocent, elf or human, it doesn't matter. Mages are treated seperately and often with denigration by those who claim to protect them from the world as much as they protect the world from them.

I am of the opinion that mages should have the right to get away from their abusers as quickly as possible, but I also believe all mages should be required to attend a Circle to learn how to control their powers. Templars are a necessity for dealing with mages who turn to crime, blood mages, and sometimes abominations, but templars are also not held accountable for their actions, and the abuse they do to mages is inexcusable but unpunished.

Based on Lambert's and Fiona's personalities, I doubt a compromise was even possible. Lambert feared and hated mages because of his experiences in Tevinter, that he ordered Evangeline to kill anyone who had evidence that the Right of Tranquility was now curable, and he also tried to destroy the evidence. Lambert also never accepted the possibility, which was becoming more and more possible, of the Divine granting the mages more rights and concessions, so long as the status quo was kept. He opposed it so strongly that he actually considered assassinating the Divine so another one could be made who is more amenable to his way of thinking.

Whereas Fiona, who spent a lot of her life as an Orlesian sex slave, grey warden and finally mage, and felt that being a Circle Mage was the worst of the three, tried again and againt for the total and complete separation of the Circle from the Chantry. Anything that kept the status quo, she opposed. She, and many mage supporters, were upset that Divine was acting in secret, and felt she was doing too little, too late.

Neither of those two leaders would even consider allowing a compromise between the two factions, and surprise surprise, there wasn't one. *shrug*

[Topsider]

I was extremely pro-mage in DAO and DA2. Not surprising since I played Solona Amell and Marian "apostate" Hawke. I even supported Anders blowing up the Chantry.

It's time for a change of pace though.

My Inquisitor will have no prejudice or bias. The various factions are just pawns to be brought under Inquisition control - mages and templars alike. If they insist on fighting each other, I'll choose the group who benefits my organization most. Magic has more potential I think.

[Aremce]

I usually support mages - but can understand both sides, too. I would really appreciate having the possibility to reach a moderate, logical solution which doesn't include killing/imprisoning all the mages/templars. Like establishing circles which are more like schools than prisons and also educating templars to really understand their purpose and to be respectful instead of zealotic ...

[dragonflight288]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

I sympathize with both sides equally. Both have good reasons and motivations. Of course there are evil extremists(e.g. Anders, Meredith). But the model Irving and Greagoir hold is excellent.

Sadly, the templars are an extreme all on their own, now.

And they need to be saved from themselves. Some people tend to demonize them, but they are just misguided. 

It's not a given that they all need to die. They will not, however, resume their former position of power; it was unearned anyway and has now been well-lost.

I disagree, the model in the Circle of Fereldan works well, both sides need to be balanced. Disturbing the balance will just cause misery.

I disagree. Irving specifically tells the mage warden that mages have to play in the bounds of the rules, but the Chantry, and he proceeds to scoff.

When it comes to Lily, Irving is more than willing, and is quite eager in fact, to catch Lily in the act so the Chantry would also be punished. When talking to Duncan, Irving says they have few choices.

On the other hand, Gregoire and Irving both seem to have a healthy amount of respect towards each other. To the point that Gregoire is willing to take Irving's word over Cullen's. We know Lambert and Meredith would never take the word of a mage over a templar's. There is also evidence that Gregoire punishes his templars when he has proof they are getting out of line, something Lambert and Meredith both neglect to do as well.

Unfortunately, all this means is that the quality of a mages life is entirely dependent on the Knight-Commander in question.

[LobselVith8]

Br3ad wrote...

Also, mages are their own race now? 

That's certainly a view held by some in Thedas, like Circle mage Bethany, who asks Hawke not to make her choose between her family and her people.

[LobselVith8]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So who here thinks the rest of thedas should submit back to tevinter enslavement? Afterall, it was their land their property now walks around freely on, all because some crazy woman with a anti-tevinter-centric bias imposed her will on everyone else. Maybe all of thedas liked being slaves huh? Why doesn't anyone bring that up?

I doubt anyone here endorses slavery, since they oppose the Chantry controlled Circles. Even a moderate like Irving saw the situation for what it was: "And the Chantry and templars are models of magnanimity? They would make us all tranquil if they could, and call it a kindness. They fancy themselves our guardians, sitting smugly on their righteousness."

[Medhia Nox]

I'm Pro-My Inquisitor Mage if that counts.

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So who here thinks the rest of thedas should submit back to tevinter enslavement? Afterall, it was their land their property now walks around freely on, all because some crazy woman with a anti-tevinter-centric bias imposed her will on everyone else. Maybe all of thedas liked being slaves huh? Why doesn't anyone bring that up?

I'm against slavery so no. I do not want Thedas to submit back to Tevinter enslavement. That goes all against what I believe in.

[Br3admax]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Also, mages are their own race now? 

That's certainly a view held by some in Thedas, like Circle mage Bethany, who asks Hawke not to make her choose between her family and her people.

You're taking the meaning of people to literally. That's like saying America is it's own race. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:11 .