173 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

GodWood wrote...
For something to be oppressive it has to be 'unjust'. Whether something is unjust or not is subjective, ergo his assertion that Templars are inherently oppressive is false.

For some people templars are unjust and oppresive. 

Medhia Nox wrote...
That no mage supporter is empathetic toward the fact that Cullen was tortured for an unknown length of time - is very telling of type of willful ignorance displayed in mage support. 

What ignorance? Of course I have no empathy for Cullen, he is a templar, and I hate him. 

Sutekh wrote...
"Nice Templars who dedicate their lives to the protection and well-being of the people in Thedas.."

''Nice Templars'' sounds to me the same as ''Nice rapists''' or ''Nice Slavers'', you get the idea. 

XxDeonxX wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Truth hurts, don't it?

Heck no, every time the Templars do something bad I justify it as necessary and use my insane logic to justify my silly opinions.. I learned from the most avid mage supporters well =D

That's the only right way. 

Modifié par KainD, 12 juin 2013 - 03:26 .

[GodWood]

KainD wrote...

GodWood wrote...
For something to be oppressive it has to be 'unjust'. Whether something is unjust or not is subjective, ergo his assertion that Templars are inherently oppressive is false.

For some people templars are unjust and oppressive.

I never said otherwise.

[Aolbain]

I like you. You spell deamon the right way.

[Plaintiff]

Medhia Nox wrote...
That no mage supporter is empathetic toward the fact that Cullen was tortured for an unknown length of time - is very telling of type of willful ignorance displayed in mage support. 

What a stupid generalization. Plenty of mage supporters sympathise with Cullen's traumatic experiences. I happen to be one.

I also recognise that no experience, however traumatic, justifies bigotry.

I was physically assaulted by a close friend who happened to be gay. The experience was very traumatic and left me in tears. I was afraid to leave my house for months, because I might run into him, and as a result I failed a majority of my university classes that year.

I did not, however, turn into a frothing, ranting nitwit who thinks all homosexuals should be locked in cages and deprived of their humanity.

Plenty of people go through trauma and manage to maintain their rationality and ability to empathise with others. Keran had a negative experience with mages that parallel's Cullen's, and he still allied with mages and stood up against Meredith's raving lunacy.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 12 juin 2013 - 03:41 .

[BouncyFrag]

I wouldn't get all that worked up. Its not real.

[GodWood]

I get the feeling Plaintiff doesn't know the proper definition of bigotry.

[imbs]

BouncyFrag wrote...

I wouldn't get all that worked up. Its not real.

m8 thats my waifu ur talkin bout.

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

I get the feeling Plaintiff doesn't know the proper definition of bigotry.

I get the feeling you wouldn't know a dictionary if it fell on you.

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion,national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

Cullen's actions and attitude absolutely qualify. The fact that one negative experience, however extreme, was enough to colour his views on an entire people for a lasting period of time only demonstrates that he was pre-disposed to that kind of thinking.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 12 juin 2013 - 03:51 .

[GodWood]

big·ot·ry
/ˈbigətrē/

Noun: Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

You are a bigot. So am I. It's foolish to demand that the Templar system be dismantled by virtue of being 'bigots'.

Modifié par GodWood, 12 juin 2013 - 03:50 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

*deamonises them biowear*

Yes, I did it!

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

big·ot·ry
/ˈbigətrē/

Noun: Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

You are a bigot. So am I. It's foolish to demand that the Templar system be dismantled by virtue of being 'bigots'.

Except that's not what bigotry is.

I'm not intolerant of your opinion. You have every right to be wrong.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 12 juin 2013 - 03:57 .

[The Elder King]

Plaintiff wrote...


Cullen's actions and attitude absolutely qualify. The fact that one negative experience, however extreme, was enough to colour his views on an entire people for a lasting period of time only demonstrates that he was pre-disposed to that kind of thinking.

Considering that he said to the Warden that he thought that mages should be treated better before TBC quest, I'd say he wasn't pre-disposed about that way of thinking.
People react to negative experience in different ways. Two people that suffered bullism or rape could react in different ways. 
Keran and Cullen suffered a similar experience. They reacted differently. That's completely understandable.
That doesn't mean that I agree on Cullen's views, but that I understand why he turned out that way. 
It's the reason why I believe that the events of DA2 could change him. He's certainly not going to become pro-mage, but he should be different from DA2.

[GodWood]

Plaintiff wrote...
Except that's not what bigotry is.

That's what the dictionary says.

Feel free to criticise the Templar system, feel free to demand its destruction but demanding it be done because they're bigoted is quite obviously silly. It's simply a very general term.

I'm not intolerant of your opinion. You have every right to be wrong.

It doesn't have to be my opinion. Are you tolerant of those who supports the extermination of people based on their race or sexuality?

[Mr. C]

Killer3000ad wrote...

Allow me to play devil's advocate here for the mages.

I do hope the actual game isn't one-sided in portraying the Templars as the good guys and the mages as evil. Fact of the matter is, you can easily see this whole conflict as the mages trying to break free from the oppressive Templars. Mages are people too you know, and they are only driven to blood magic because of the Templars. If only the Templars didn't treat every mage like a ticking time-bomb all this could have been avoided.

I get so sick of hearing the old tired spiel of "Bad bad Templars make the innocent Mages turn to Blood magic!" That is complete BS. If a mage truly put their backs into it, a powerful lightning storm could cause as much damage to a platoon of Templars as Blood magic. If Apostates (as the Chantry sees them) would hone their "legal" magic as much as they turn to Blood Magic, they would not only cause more physical damage, but also be less likely to be branded as Maleficarum as soon as they run away.

Blood magic is a coward and a psychopath's tool, not one that frightened innocents need when faced by big men with swords.

[KainD]

@Mr. C it's this holy smite of the templar that depletes mages mana supply, but if they know blood magic they can't be disarmed in such a way. Also blood magic is very useful tool for war, it's very wise to learn it.

[JoltDealer]

Can someone please make a new mascot for Dragon Age 3 called the Biobear? I just read the title of this thread and that is literally all I could think of.

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...
That's what the dictionary says.

It's what Google says if you type "define: bigotry". Is this what passes as research for you? I at least editted my post to include a full paragraph from Wikipedia.

Feel free to criticise the Templar system, feel free to demand its destruction but demanding it be done because they're bigoted is quite obviously silly. It's simply a very general term.

What utterly pointless pedantry. That's not how the term is actually used, and I suspect you know it.

It doesn't have to be my opinion. Are you tolerant of those who supports the extermination of people based on their race or sexuality?

Maybe, by your warped definition of intolerance. Does preventing them from exterminating people make me "intolerant" to their beliefs?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 12 juin 2013 - 04:32 .

[Welsh Inferno]

GodWood wrote...

It doesn't have to be my opinion. Are you tolerant of those who supports the extermination of people based on their race or sexuality?

People have a tendency to rule things out of being bigotry/racism or whatever else when they feel it is justified. I really don't like that mindset but it is what it is.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 12 juin 2013 - 04:32 .

[GodWood]

Plaintiff wrote...
It's what Google says if you type "define: bigotry". Is this what passes as research for you? I at least editted y post to include a full paragraph from Wikipedia.

A couple of online dictionaries actually.

It's the same in physical dictionaries too (I've had this discussion before), I just don't have one on me.

Feel free to check yourself.

What utterly pointless pedantry. That's not how the term is actually used, and I suspect you know it.

This is the meaning of the word.

If it doesn't match up with the idea you are trying to express find a better or word, or better yet find a better criticism of the Templars.

Maybe, by your warped definition of intolerance. Does preventing them from exterminating people make me "intolerant" to their beliefs?

Yes.

[Vit246]

Mr. C wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

Allow me to play devil's advocate here for the mages.

I do hope the actual game isn't one-sided in portraying the Templars as the good guys and the mages as evil. Fact of the matter is, you can easily see this whole conflict as the mages trying to break free from the oppressive Templars. Mages are people too you know, and they are only driven to blood magic because of the Templars. If only the Templars didn't treat every mage like a ticking time-bomb all this could have been avoided.

I get so sick of hearing the old tired spiel of "Bad bad Templars make the innocent Mages turn to Blood magic!" That is complete BS. If a mage truly put their backs into it, a powerful lightning storm could cause as much damage to a platoon of Templars as Blood magic. If Apostates (as the Chantry sees them) would hone their "legal" magic as much as they turn to Blood Magic, they would not only cause more physical damage, but also be less likely to be branded as Maleficarum as soon as they run away.

Blood magic is a coward and a psychopath's tool, not one that frightened innocents need when faced by big men with swords.

Mages cannot rely on Chantry-sanctioned legal conventional magic because Templars can nullify it. Do you understand that? If someone can turn off your gun in a gunfight, would you still take your chances with that? Or would you use something else thats hardly any more different or morally qustionable and won't turn off? Most mages turn to blood magic not because they're cowards or psychopaths, but because its the only known magic Templars don't know how to turn off. Why is blood magic worse than electrocution or burning? A coward's tool, you call it? There is no such thing in a fight.

Modifié par Vit246, 12 juin 2013 - 04:56 .

[Hazegurl]

Plaintiff wrote...

GodWood wrote...

big·ot·ry
/ˈbigətrē/

Noun: Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

You are a bigot. So am I. It's foolish to demand that the Templar system be dismantled by virtue of being 'bigots'.

Except that's not what bigotry is.

I'm not intolerant of your opinion. You have every right to be wrong.

Stop making me want to punch Kaidan Alenko.

[Myousefi]

I don't understand how a marketing scheme bothers a person who DOES understand the lore. In a way it can be said that the things on that site is all true. Who knows maybe in the future we get Templar's side of the war.

[Killer3000ad]

Mr. C wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

Allow me to play devil's advocate here for the mages.

I do hope the actual game isn't one-sided in portraying the Templars as the good guys and the mages as evil. Fact of the matter is, you can easily see this whole conflict as the mages trying to break free from the oppressive Templars. Mages are people too you know, and they are only driven to blood magic because of the Templars. If only the Templars didn't treat every mage like a ticking time-bomb all this could have been avoided.

I get so sick of hearing the old tired spiel of "Bad bad Templars make the innocent Mages turn to Blood magic!" That is complete BS. If a mage truly put their backs into it, a powerful lightning storm could cause as much damage to a platoon of Templars as Blood magic. If Apostates (as the Chantry sees them) would hone their "legal" magic as much as they turn to Blood Magic, they would not only cause more physical damage, but also be less likely to be branded as Maleficarum as soon as they run away.

Blood magic is a coward and a psychopath's tool, not one that frightened innocents need when faced by big men with swords.

The system of Circles guarded over by Templars is nothing more than a sham to keep the mages under the heel of the Chantry. This is a system that is doomed to failure because of it's very nature of oppression. The oppressed can only take so much before they have had enough and push back.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 12 juin 2013 - 05:36 .

[Mr. C]

Vit246 wrote...

Mr. C wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

Allow me to play devil's advocate here for the mages.

I do hope the actual game isn't one-sided in portraying the Templars as the good guys and the mages as evil. Fact of the matter is, you can easily see this whole conflict as the mages trying to break free from the oppressive Templars. Mages are people too you know, and they are only driven to blood magic because of the Templars. If only the Templars didn't treat every mage like a ticking time-bomb all this could have been avoided.

I get so sick of hearing the old tired spiel of "Bad bad Templars make the innocent Mages turn to Blood magic!" That is complete BS. If a mage truly put their backs into it, a powerful lightning storm could cause as much damage to a platoon of Templars as Blood magic. If Apostates (as the Chantry sees them) would hone their "legal" magic as much as they turn to Blood Magic, they would not only cause more physical damage, but also be less likely to be branded as Maleficarum as soon as they run away.

Blood magic is a coward and a psychopath's tool, not one that frightened innocents need when faced by big men with swords.

Mages cannot rely on Chantry-sanctioned legal conventional magic because Templars can nullify it. Do you understand that? If someone can turn off your gun in a gunfight, would you still take your chances with that? Or would you use something else thats hardly any more different or morally qustionable and won't turn off? Most mages turn to blood magic not because they're cowards or psychopaths, but because its the only known magic Templars don't know how to turn off. Why is blood magic worse than electrocution or burning? A coward's tool, you call it? There is no such thing in a fight.

Aside from Meredith, we haven't seen ONE Templar nullifying magic. They charge in gung-ho with their swords most of the time. Electrocution and burning doesn't require life energy and/or a Demon's assistance to cast. Hell, Apostates should learn to fight with melee weapons. Even if a Templar de-magics them temporarily, they're not sitting ducks. Alistair said he's just a guy in a metal suit against a Mundane, which have been fought for centuries by non-magic combatants. Blood magic has no excuse

[KainD]

Mr. C wrote...
Blood magic has no excuse

What kind of excuse do you need? Blood magic is useful - it's wise to learn useful things. Some types of magic are blood exclusive. If I was a mage I would definetely learn blood magic, if only just for the heck of it, knowledge is good.