214 réponses à ce sujet

[LaraCroft16]

Anders Mother's hand braided pillow + Varric = Instant Karma!

[snuttanuttan]

Well, you can find some other Anders to replace you on Facebook, by all means

[Lady Mortho]

I just want his inner sexy demon back!

[PlasmaCheese]

@Scarlet Rabbi

That I can understand. I've never seen it as him being naive or dumb, just maybe Anders was THAT full of himself.

[LaraCroft16]

I can agree with you there, Mortho!

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If you confront Anders after siding with the Templars one of the options Hawke has is "Says the man who kills helpless priests" so I think it's clear that clergy other than templars died in the explosion.

[RepHope]

I'm pretty sure Anders and Varric aren't BFFLs anymore. In face when Varric talked with Cassandra I detected some bitterness in Varrics voice when he was asked about him. Plus there's the fact Anders set off a bomb and a war, which if  the trailer is anything to go by has hit Varric pretty hard.
So if those two meet Varrics probably more likely to shoot Anders than talk to him.

Modifié par RepHope, 14 juin 2013 - 10:08 .

[RepHope]

Xilizhra wrote...

The tragic thing is that others paid for his mistake, most of them, like I said in my previous posts, passive priests. How is that justice or vengence? It's beyond me why he didn't just blow up the Templar quarters in the gallows, opting instead to massacre the innocent.

-Much harder to sneak inside.
-Blowing up the mages is too risky.
-It'd look like Circle aggression against the templars, which it isn't supposed to be, but one rogue provoking templar aggression against the Circle.
-All we saw die in the Chantry were templars and their commander-in-chief anyway.

Doesn't matter, every Mage, Templar, or innocent who dies because of this war, dies because of Anders. You can say his goals are noble, but Anders was the one who pushed things over the edge. Everything that happens as a result is on his head, Anders even says so himself (For all the good it does Hawke)

[Dova]

RepHope wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The tragic thing is that others paid for his mistake, most of them, like I said in my previous posts, passive priests. How is that justice or vengence? It's beyond me why he didn't just blow up the Templar quarters in the gallows, opting instead to massacre the innocent.

-Much harder to sneak inside.
-Blowing up the mages is too risky.
-It'd look like Circle aggression against the templars, which it isn't supposed to be, but one rogue provoking templar aggression against the Circle.
-All we saw die in the Chantry were templars and their commander-in-chief anyway.

Doesn't matter, every Mage, Templar, or innocent who dies because of this war, dies because of Anders. You can say his goals are noble, but Anders was the one who pushed things over the edge. Everything that happens as a result is on his head, Anders even says so himself (For all the good it does Hawke)

Anders didn't truly starrt the war. Meredith and Orsino started it really when she invoked the Right of Annulment.
Anders just took out the Chantry , because even though the Grand Cleric could post pone this, the war was always...always going to be there between Templars and Mages. Anders just took out the way of peace.

Not like I'm saying murdering Elthina , Templars, and the Chantry Priests/Priestess that were in there is good. I thoroughly dissaprove. 
But Anders isn't all at fault here.

[BlueMagitek]

Actually it was Rhys' bitter ex lover, if I recall.

Freaking gingers, man.

[Hurbster]

They will be the doom of us all.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dovaaa wrote...

RepHope wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The tragic thing is that others paid for his mistake, most of them, like I said in my previous posts, passive priests. How is that justice or vengence? It's beyond me why he didn't just blow up the Templar quarters in the gallows, opting instead to massacre the innocent.

-Much harder to sneak inside.
-Blowing up the mages is too risky.
-It'd look like Circle aggression against the templars, which it isn't supposed to be, but one rogue provoking templar aggression against the Circle.
-All we saw die in the Chantry were templars and their commander-in-chief anyway.

Doesn't matter, every Mage, Templar, or innocent who dies because of this war, dies because of Anders. You can say his goals are noble, but Anders was the one who pushed things over the edge. Everything that happens as a result is on his head, Anders even says so himself (For all the good it does Hawke)

Anders didn't truly starrt the war. Meredith and Orsino started it really when she invoked the Right of Annulment.
Anders just took out the Chantry , because even though the Grand Cleric could post pone this, the war was always...always going to be there between Templars and Mages. Anders just took out the way of peace.

Not like I'm saying murdering Elthina , Templars, and the Chantry Priests/Priestess that were in there is good. I thoroughly dissaprove. 
But Anders isn't all at fault here.

Of course he is. He blew up the Chantry so that the war could happen. He killed all those people specifically so she would invoke the Right and I'd probably be more inclined to say that more blame could be put at his feet because Meredith was already driven mad by the idol.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 14 juin 2013 - 11:46 .

[Saraphial]

I dunno, man...

From my interpretation, Varric's character was not a huge fan of genocide, so I'm pretty sure Anders' heinous acts of terrorism in the name of vengeance may have somewhat damaged their friendship.

Who knows though? Varric could have been totally open to the horrific murder of a bunch of innocent chantry goers...

[RepHope]

@Dovaa I hate quote pyramids, so forgive the lack of quotes. Anders IS at fault here, yes Meredith asked for the Right of Annulment but that doesn't mean her request would have been accepted, and even if it was the Annulment of the Kirkwall Circle would not have caused the war to erupt. Other circles have been annulled before but that never caused a war.
It was Anders attack on the Chantry and Hawkes actions that caused war. If Hawke helped the Mages it shows the Circles that the Templars can be defeated, and I forget what happens if your pro-Templar. But Whose to say if things would've gotten that far without Anders. Remember why he did it? "To remove the chance for compromise". Anders forced a confrontation , and so any harm that happens as a result is Anders's fault.

Modifié par RepHope, 15 juin 2013 - 03:27 .

[Dova]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dovaaa wrote...

RepHope wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The tragic thing is that others paid for his mistake, most of them, like I said in my previous posts, passive priests. How is that justice or vengence? It's beyond me why he didn't just blow up the Templar quarters in the gallows, opting instead to massacre the innocent.

-Much harder to sneak inside.
-Blowing up the mages is too risky.
-It'd look like Circle aggression against the templars, which it isn't supposed to be, but one rogue provoking templar aggression against the Circle.
-All we saw die in the Chantry were templars and their commander-in-chief anyway.

Doesn't matter, every Mage, Templar, or innocent who dies because of this war, dies because of Anders. You can say his goals are noble, but Anders was the one who pushed things over the edge. Everything that happens as a result is on his head, Anders even says so himself (For all the good it does Hawke)

Anders didn't truly starrt the war. Meredith and Orsino started it really when she invoked the Right of Annulment.
Anders just took out the Chantry , because even though the Grand Cleric could post pone this, the war was always...always going to be there between Templars and Mages. Anders just took out the way of peace.

Not like I'm saying murdering Elthina , Templars, and the Chantry Priests/Priestess that were in there is good. I thoroughly dissaprove. 
But Anders isn't all at fault here.

Of course he is. He blew up the Chantry so that the war could happen. He killed all those people specifically so she would invoke the Right and I'd probably be more inclined to say that more blame could be put at his feet because Meredith was already driven mad by the idol.

She invoked the right because of Orisino and her accusing him of hiding the blood mages in the tower.
And then Orisino and Meredith yelled at eachother, blahblahblah, and then Orsino went to get the grand cleric. That was when Anders stepped in, blew up the chantry and that. And then Meredith fully demanded the Right.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

When Meredith invokes the Right she justifies it as being a direct response to Anders actions. SHe does so both when she first announces it and when she demands Hawke join her and when Orsino asks her to stop.

[Lulupab]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

When Meredith invokes the Right she justifies it as being a direct response to Anders actions. SHe does so both when she first announces it and when she demands Hawke join her and when Orsino asks her to stop.

Meredith does not give rat's @ss when you keep Anders alive. one mage means nothing to her when she can mass murder all the rest.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well if you side with the templars and manage to get to fight at your side he plans to kill himself afterward, otherwise she presumably plans to kill him with the rest of the mages.

[katling73]

I mostly murderknifed him after my first playthrough but I wouldn't be opposed to pulling that particular save game out and importing it into DAI if we get a chance to make Anders face the full consequences of what he did. Because I can't imagine that he's made the mages' lives much better. In fact, with a full scale war and the knowledge spread throughout the land that a mage is the cause of all this trouble (taken down to the most basic level because that's the message that's more likely to be spread than anything complex), I'd imagine mages are living precarious, fear-filled and very short existences.

Of course, all of that is assuming he's actually sane and in command of himself, which I personally think as a bit of a longshot. I recall a line, I think in Act 3, where he said he was having trouble telling the difference between himself and Justice/Vengeance. I can't imagine that's gotten any better unless he's found a way to send Justice/Vengeance back to the Fade. If that's even possible. In my head canon he has, rather sadly, become just a different kind of Abomination. Remember, demons are Fade spirits just as Justice is.

[Xilizhra]

I mostly murderknifed him after my first playthrough but I wouldn't be opposed to pulling that particular save game out and importing it into DAI if we get a chance to make Anders face the full consequences of what he did. Because I can't imagine that he's made the mages' lives much better. In fact, with a full scale war and the knowledge spread throughout the land that a mage is the cause of all this trouble (taken down to the most basic level because that's the message that's more likely to be spread than anything complex), I'd imagine mages are living precarious, fear-filled and very short existences.

You're only looking at the short term. If we side with the mages in this war, we can ensure that their existences in the future will be far better than ever before.

[Momiji.mii]

I think Anders deserves a big cameo in DA:I, or at least Justice if Anders is not alive. After all, he was the spark that initiated a huge part the conflict we seem to be dealing with in the game. I'd also love to see him struggle with the magnitude of what he did. I don't even mind if he and my Hawke who romanced Anders don't get a happy ending, as long as the story is satisfying.

[KingRoxas]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Well if you side with the templars and manage to get to fight at your side he plans to kill himself afterward

Wonder if he did kill himself.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
You're only looking at the short term. If we side with the mages in this war, we can ensure that their existences in the future will be far better than ever before.

At the expense of everyone else's existences.

[BlazingSpeed]

And what about those that skipped over DA2 would we/I have a choice to have Anders dead or alive?

[Abraham_uk]

Anders showed his true colors at the end of Dragon Age 2.
He was evil. He was a threat. He had to be neutralized!

But I don't think it was enough.
In Inquisition, I want to go into the fade to kill Justice, so that he cannot bond with anyone alive or dead. That way Theadas can be rid of that evil abomination.


I know that Dragon Age is a morally grey universe with many dubious actions. But there is no way that destroying a building with innocent people is "morally grey". It's down right evil.

As Isabella put it "what about justice for the innocent people who get killed in the process"? Yes what about those innocent people?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 15 juin 2013 - 08:06 .