214 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike 9987]

 

Rassler wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

No.

Then upload a save where you killed Anders cause I was strictly talking about importing a save where anders was kept alive.

In other words "Put what I want in the game and everyone else can shove off." 

What if my hawke did not kill anders even if I hated him? What if I RPed a hawke that knew there was no going back from his actions and brought him along to the final battle to help even if he didn't agree. I left him alive, but I still hate him. Why should I have to suffer his reapearence in the next game? You're attempt to demand things put into this game just because you like them and screw whatever anybody else says is just dumb. This thread should be locked if you are going to blatantly  say "only people who agree with me can post." 

[Blooddrunk1004]

Dovaaa wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dovaaa wrote...

RepHope wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The tragic thing is that others paid for his mistake, most of them, like I said in my previous posts, passive priests. How is that justice or vengence? It's beyond me why he didn't just blow up the Templar quarters in the gallows, opting instead to massacre the innocent.

-Much harder to sneak inside.
-Blowing up the mages is too risky.
-It'd look like Circle aggression against the templars, which it isn't supposed to be, but one rogue provoking templar aggression against the Circle.
-All we saw die in the Chantry were templars and their commander-in-chief anyway.

Doesn't matter, every Mage, Templar, or innocent who dies because of this war, dies because of Anders. You can say his goals are noble, but Anders was the one who pushed things over the edge. Everything that happens as a result is on his head, Anders even says so himself (For all the good it does Hawke)

Anders didn't truly starrt the war. Meredith and Orsino started it really when she invoked the Right of Annulment.
Anders just took out the Chantry , because even though the Grand Cleric could post pone this, the war was always...always going to be there between Templars and Mages. Anders just took out the way of peace.

Not like I'm saying murdering Elthina , Templars, and the Chantry Priests/Priestess that were in there is good. I thoroughly dissaprove. 
But Anders isn't all at fault here.

Of course he is. He blew up the Chantry so that the war could happen. He killed all those people specifically so she would invoke the Right and I'd probably be more inclined to say that more blame could be put at his feet because Meredith was already driven mad by the idol.

She invoked the right because of Orisino and her accusing him of hiding the blood mages in the tower.
And then Orisino and Meredith yelled at eachother, blahblahblah, and then Orsino went to get the grand cleric. That was when Anders stepped in, blew up the chantry and that. And then Meredith fully demanded the Right.

Wrong.
She couldn't invoked the Right of Annulment because she had no right reason, especially since not every mage is evil. However when Anders blows out the chantry, she thinks and considers his action enough horrible to invoke the Annulment and i don't blame her, since Anders kills a lot of innocent people with his actions.

So yes, Anders is the reason why Meredith declared war on mages.

[andar91]

As a cameo? Sure. As a companion? No--he could be dead, and I don't think they'd contravert that.

I'm sure he'll show up if it's appropriate for the story/time/place, just like other characters.

[keightdee]

How about Anders' reanimated corpse for people for who killed him? I am super stoked on this idea.

[Lulupab]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Dovaaa wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dovaaa wrote...

RepHope wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The tragic thing is that others paid for his mistake, most of them, like I said in my previous posts, passive priests. How is that justice or vengence? It's beyond me why he didn't just blow up the Templar quarters in the gallows, opting instead to massacre the innocent.

-Much harder to sneak inside.
-Blowing up the mages is too risky.
-It'd look like Circle aggression against the templars, which it isn't supposed to be, but one rogue provoking templar aggression against the Circle.
-All we saw die in the Chantry were templars and their commander-in-chief anyway.

Doesn't matter, every Mage, Templar, or innocent who dies because of this war, dies because of Anders. You can say his goals are noble, but Anders was the one who pushed things over the edge. Everything that happens as a result is on his head, Anders even says so himself (For all the good it does Hawke)

Anders didn't truly starrt the war. Meredith and Orsino started it really when she invoked the Right of Annulment.
Anders just took out the Chantry , because even though the Grand Cleric could post pone this, the war was always...always going to be there between Templars and Mages. Anders just took out the way of peace.

Not like I'm saying murdering Elthina , Templars, and the Chantry Priests/Priestess that were in there is good. I thoroughly dissaprove. 
But Anders isn't all at fault here.

Of course he is. He blew up the Chantry so that the war could happen. He killed all those people specifically so she would invoke the Right and I'd probably be more inclined to say that more blame could be put at his feet because Meredith was already driven mad by the idol.

She invoked the right because of Orisino and her accusing him of hiding the blood mages in the tower.
And then Orisino and Meredith yelled at eachother, blahblahblah, and then Orsino went to get the grand cleric. That was when Anders stepped in, blew up the chantry and that. And then Meredith fully demanded the Right.

Wrong.
She couldn't invoked the Right of Annulment because she had no right reason, especially since not every mage is evil. However when Anders blows out the chantry, she thinks and considers his action enough horrible to invoke the Annulment and i don't blame her, since Anders kills a lot of innocent people with his actions.

So yes, Anders is the reason why Meredith declared war on mages.

The question is, would mages declare war on templars if a single templar blowed up a building full of mages? Nope. There is pure discrimination when it comes to mages and it has to stop. Anders made sure of that. Mages would simply demand retribution on that single Templar or anyone involved not every single one of them.

[M-Taylor]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

To be honest, the Anders that people loved is already dead in DA 2, whether you spared him or not. A fun, cool, cat loving mage was no more. What left is an ugly, emo extremist driven by vengeance. Many people was too in love with the old Anders, and refuse to admit this truth. But just because you refuse to look at reality doesn't mean it's not true. So careful what you wish for. If Anders appear again, he will still be that ugly emo terrorist created by Vengeance (as he admit at the end, he and vengeance had become one and can't be seperated anymore.) He's far past the point of returning, so it'd best just let him stay dead, instead of keep going on and get whatever good memory left of him destroyed.

Nope. I didn't particually care for Anders in Awakenings. I didn't like him, but he was boring, unoriginal and a mage-version of Alistair.

I fell in love with Anders character in DA2 though. I don't understand how, or why, people can dislike his character. The only conclusion I can come up with is that they fail to acknowledge the conditions of Anders society, and what he has to endure, and instead judge him by real life standards (and I think the term terroist is thrown around way, way too much).

He, as a mage, is oppressed. Every single factor of his identity is stripped and dissected by the Chantry, and all of his life he is forced to live in seclusion while being persecuted by Templars that abuse their powers (Anders has referenced several henius crimes happening in the Circle, such as rape). All because he was born.

Yes, his attack on the Chantry likely killed innocents. But the Chantry, as a religious organisation that authoritised and governened the Circle and Templar overlords, have abused mages for 1000 years. The Chantry, in my honest opinion, was a fair target of Anders attack; it was a building led by people that are oppressing his kin. Why would he not target it? Because it might house innocents? Well, I don't think that's a strong argument considering the climate they live in (you know, medieval, war torn and entirely used to violence).

I just can't fathom the real, intense dislike of Anders other than people are influenced too much by real life ideology, instead of acknowedging that Dragon Ages is not real life and so you have to judge the characters by the standards of their society. >.>

But on topic, no I don't want Anders back as a companion but I do want him to appear in the game. Truthfully, I kinda want both him and my Hawke to die in this war; both of them are relentless and ruthless mages. Eventually they're gunna bite off more than they can chew and die, so. >.>... but of course that's just my Hawke. ;p

Modifié par M-Taylor, 15 juin 2013 - 09:56 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

Rassler wrote...

The question is, would mages declare war on templars if a single templar blowed up a building full of mages? Nope. There is pure discrimination when it comes to mages and it has to stop. Anders made sure of that. Mages would simply demand retribution on that single Templar or anyone involved not every single one of them.

Don't blame templars for that, blame Meredith. She is ruthless leader and refuses to listen to a reason.
I don't support neither mages or templars but Orsino was way more understantable leader, he wanted to resolve the situation peacefully, while Meredith was just waiting for a good moment to doom mages and Anders did exactly that.

Even Cullen protests against her when group of mages surrender and wants her to spare them, even though the decisions is up to Hawke. Same goes when you confront with your sister and she wants you to kill her. Meredith is basically racist against mages or she has horrible past with them.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 15 juin 2013 - 10:01 .

[Lulupab]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Rassler wrote...

The question is, would mages declare war on templars if a single templar blowed up a building full of mages? Nope. There is pure discrimination when it comes to mages and it has to stop. Anders made sure of that. Mages would simply demand retribution on that single Templar or anyone involved not every single one of them.

Don't blame templars for that, blame Meredith. She is ruthless leader and refuses to listen to a reason.
I don't support neither mages or templars but Orsino was way more understantable leader, he wanted to resolve the situation peacefully, while Meredith was just waiting for a good moment to doom mages and Anders did exactly that.

Even Cullen protests against her when group of mages surrender and wants her to spare them, even though the decisions is up to Hawke. Same goes when you confront with your sister and she wants you to kill her. Meredith is basically racist against mages or she has horrible past with them.

That is why circles have failed. Mages indeed can be dangerous but people must sympathize with them and try to help them not bludgeon them into submission and oppress them which causes mages to go desparate and act desparately.

[Dave of Canada]

You don't try to tame a cornered animal, you try to finish it off.

[Lulupab]

Dave of Canada wrote...

You don't try to tame a cornered animal, you try to finish it off.

The so called "cornered animal" was a human before opression made him become an animal which is nothing less than oppressors deserve.

[Dave of Canada]

In the end it's still an animal that needs to be put down.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juin 2013 - 09:50 .

[HiroVoid]

Rassler wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Rassler wrote...

The question is, would mages declare war on templars if a single templar blowed up a building full of mages? Nope. There is pure discrimination when it comes to mages and it has to stop. Anders made sure of that. Mages would simply demand retribution on that single Templar or anyone involved not every single one of them.

Don't blame templars for that, blame Meredith. She is ruthless leader and refuses to listen to a reason.
I don't support neither mages or templars but Orsino was way more understantable leader, he wanted to resolve the situation peacefully, while Meredith was just waiting for a good moment to doom mages and Anders did exactly that.

Even Cullen protests against her when group of mages surrender and wants her to spare them, even though the decisions is up to Hawke. Same goes when you confront with your sister and she wants you to kill her. Meredith is basically racist against mages or she has horrible past with them.

That is why circles have failed. Mages indeed can be dangerous but people must sympathize with them and try to help them not bludgeon them into submission and oppress them which causes mages to go desparate and act desparately.

Are we talking about 'failed' on a moral basis or a 'doing its job' basis.  If it's the latter, circles have been around for about 800 years, so that's actually not too bad a time for lasting for pretty much any organization.

[Lulupab]

Dave of Canada wrote...

In the end it's still an animal that needs to be put down.

Yet you call Anders a lunatic. He is angelic in compariosn to this attitude.

[Lulupab]

HiroVoid wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Rassler wrote...

The question is, would mages declare war on templars if a single templar blowed up a building full of mages? Nope. There is pure discrimination when it comes to mages and it has to stop. Anders made sure of that. Mages would simply demand retribution on that single Templar or anyone involved not every single one of them.

Don't blame templars for that, blame Meredith. She is ruthless leader and refuses to listen to a reason.
I don't support neither mages or templars but Orsino was way more understantable leader, he wanted to resolve the situation peacefully, while Meredith was just waiting for a good moment to doom mages and Anders did exactly that.

Even Cullen protests against her when group of mages surrender and wants her to spare them, even though the decisions is up to Hawke. Same goes when you confront with your sister and she wants you to kill her. Meredith is basically racist against mages or she has horrible past with them.

That is why circles have failed. Mages indeed can be dangerous but people must sympathize with them and try to help them not bludgeon them into submission and oppress them which causes mages to go desparate and act desparately.

Are we talking about 'failed' on a moral basis or a 'doing its job' basis.  If it's the latter, circles have been around for about 800 years, so that's actually not too bad a time for lasting for pretty much any organization.

They have caused more death and suffering than their good aspects. Espoecially in places like Kirkwall whre mages are held in old slave quarters and treated as such.

[Dave of Canada]

I'm not a lunatic, I don't blow up buildings and call it justice or eat human flesh. I kill rabid animals which need putting down, you don't leave them to infect the rest of the pack because then you'd need to put them down.

[Lulupab]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm not a lunatic, I don't blow up buildings and call it justice or eat human flesh. I kill rabid animals which need putting down, you don't leave them to infect the rest of the pack because then you'd need to put them down.

lol. You know what happens to bad templars? They horrifically scream as in full conscious they watch their own body turn to statue inside out while losing their hand and lower body in process exactly what the likes of them who think mages are animals deserve. While Anders dies with a smile not so different than true happiniess which is deserving for the angel he is.

Modifié par Rassler, 16 juin 2013 - 10:10 .

[Abraham_uk]

Sorry but I'm with Sebastian on this one.

Maker no!

[The Night Haunter]

Anders was a poor character in DA2, too chaotic and too single-minded. He was unable to even acknowledge some Templars weren't bad, whether Carver or any other Templar who helps you free mages. His terrorist act was also silly, solve violence with more violence! its like putting out a fire with oil.

Anyway I hated him, and killed him most of the time. I do believe he should appear in DAI if he lived (if only to give me another chance to kill him) but he should not play a huge part. Else everyone who killed him will be missing out on all that content.

[duckley]

Ah..... No - I think we have seen enough of Anders, thank-you very much.

[Zeldrik1389]

Why are we even arguing about this lol David gaider already said it. If you killed him in DA 2, he's dead. If not, maybe he will appear again. So Anders hater (like myself) who killed him every single time the chance popped up won't have to tolerate that abomination anymore. While Anders lover might still have their idol back. Either way, I'm fairly sure that they already have plan for him, arguing here won't change that plan anyway. They'd better spend their time and resources on polishing the game, not wasting them on some emo freak character.

[electricfish]

I'm not sure if anybody brought this up, but by the Inquisition time, Anders is no longer Anders. Vengeance pretty much took over when he blew up the chantry. You won't be having any charming wit, or a kind mage who likes to heal people, or even the oppressed, skinny rebel who spits on templars.
You have an abomination who is totally fused with a vengeful spirit and will not be having any distractions like being a love interest, or feeling bad about what happened with Hawke. He would be totally focused on his war, and it would be very difficult to have your Inquisition character fall in line with that extreme attitude. Remember, spirits don't have a middle ground when it comes to their defining traits. Vengeance (if he lived) would have to be a big player in the war because it's essentially his baby, and that would be impossible with saves that have Anders killed/

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Rassler wrote...

Anders

No.

He needs to stay dead and take Merrill with him.

[Solas]

Don't mind him appearing, but not as a companion. He's been a companion in two games already, that's enough.

[Irish Chick]

Definitely Not.

Great Character in DAO: Awakening but appalling in DA2. Dear God I wish I had killed him, why didn't I kill him!!

[Capt. Obvious]

DragonRacer wrote...

Would like cameos from Loghain and Anders for those of us that spared both.

That would REALLY torque some folks. LOL

I wouldn't mind the former coming back as a companion. He is one of the best written characters after all.

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 17 juin 2013 - 02:03 .