187 réponses à ce sujet

[CommanderShepard2183]

Seconding Schneidend's response towards Udina, he isn't a good ambassador. He does know the game of galactic politics and how to play them, however, and that is what makes him a bad enemy. However, with politicians like this, there's no alliance with them and if your in his way, no matter how powerful or friendly you are to him, he will double-cross you to get what he wants, which is power. As said twice before, Udina is no good ambassador.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

...but there aren't much politicians in America that actually have some intelligence and aren't power hungry.

OK, Captain InternationalLawPhD, what makes you think Obama isn't just one of them (the power hungry)? His public image? A Nobel Prize?

Look. Actually a gamers' forum is not the right place to talk about real life politics, and especially flash your diploma. What makes you think I don't have one anyway? We are all Shepards here. So stow it. I never was serious about your lectures. Just having fun, no offence.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:42 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Schneidend wrote...

A good ambassador works for his nation as much as for cooperation with other governments. Unfortunately, Udina is purely out for his own career, only using "working for humanity's interests" as a guise for greed, ambition, and incompetence. He endangers the entire galaxy, suddenly deciding only then that it was a good time to build a rapport with the Council, when he had previously shown no interest in making any concessions to the Council. Rather than engender cooperation with the Council over a slightly longer period with minor compromises, he instead chose to ground the first human Spectre just after said Spectre had made a major breakthrough in his/her mission for absolutely no reason other than to save face and start doing his job for once.

Udina isn't a good ambassador. He's not even a good politician in general. He's one of the better characters in Mass Effect, though, simply because he's so well-written.

This small wall of letters has one big hole in it:
Udina = Alliance
Spectre = Citadel Council
Udina simply can not (has no authority, no right, no power) to "ground" a spectre. It was the Council who backstabbed Shepard, and Udina only made it easy on him, when he was about to blow up everything with his defiance of those three arrogant robes.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:40 .

[tommythetomcat]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

This small wall of letters has one big hole in it:
Udina = Alliance
Spectre = Citadel Council
Udina simply can not (has no authority, no right, no power) to "ground" a spectre. It was the Council who backstabbed Shepard, and Udina only made it easy on him, when he was about to blow up everything with his defiance of those three arrogant robes.

Though I think you are right about the council he could still have the authority to "ground" the Normandy as its still an Alliance vessel. 

[Schneidend]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

This small wall of letters has one big hole in it:
Udina = Alliance
Spectre = Citadel Council
Udina simply can not (has no authority, no right, no power) to "ground" a spectre. It was the Council who backstabbed Shepard, and Udina only made it easy on him, when he was about to blow up everything with his defiance of those three arrogant robes.

Zulu, don't allow your rabid xenophobia to cloud your judgement. Udina has the authority to ground the Normandy, because it is an Alliance ship that the Alliance is allowing Shepard to use. That's why Anderson can break into Udina's office and disable the locks from Udina's personal computer.

[Azazel005]

I still like watching him get punched in the chops, whatever your opinion of him. He's manipulative and self-centered. Good traits for a policitian perhaps.

[Zulu_DFA]

Schneidend wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

This small wall of letters has one big hole in it:
Udina = Alliance
Spectre = Citadel Council
Udina simply can not (has no authority, no right, no power) to "ground" a spectre. It was the Council who backstabbed Shepard, and Udina only made it easy on him, when he was about to blow up everything with his defiance of those three arrogant robes.

...und the Normandy, because it is an Alliance ship that the Alliance is allo...

No, she isn't. You can even tell an Alliance Admiral (that is superior officer for Shepard)  to fu$$ off with his inspection of the Normandy, and suffer no consequences. Al Jilani, while intervewing you stresses, that the Normandy has been given away to the Citadel Council. And the 5th Fleet's CO Admiral Hackett humbly asks for your assistanse everytime he needs something.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:49 .

[tommythetomcat]

Shepard himself can say it is just on loan to the Citadel in that reporter interview if I'm not mistaken. Meaning the Alliance can take it back whenever they want. Under normal circumstances it would be stupid to undermine Shepard but Udina didn't want him to start an incident with the council he is working so hard to swoon.

[Schneidend]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, she isn't. You can even tell an Alliance Admiral (that is superior officer for Shepard)  to fu$$ off with his inspection of the Normandy, and suffer no consequences. Al Jilani, while intervewing you stresses, that the Normandy has been given away to the Citadel Council. And the 5th Fleet's CO Admiral Hackett humbly asks for your assistanse everytime he needs something.

The Alliance can't ask Shepard himself to do anything officially, that's true, but Mikhailovitch was a special situation. He wanted to make his inspection of the Normandy so he could make sure the Alliance never spends that much money on a single destroyer ever again. The Admiral clearly had no official power in that instance, as the Normandy was not part of his fleet.

Besides that, Shepard could simply beat the crap out of the admiral and probably not suffer anything more than a slap on the wrists.

[Mr. Gerbz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

...but there aren't much politicians in America that actually have some intelligence and aren't power hungry.

OK, Captain InternationalLawPhD, what makes you think Obama isn't just one of them (the power hungry)? His public image? A Nobel Prize?

Look. Actually a gamers' forum is not the right place to talk about real life politics, and especially flash your diploma. What makes you think I don't have one anyway? We are all Shepards here. So stow it. I never was serious about your lectures. Just having fun, no offence.

He has done certain things that have proven he's not power hungry which I am not going to describe here, but with which I do not mean his nobel prize or his public image (which, like I said before, is way too obviously meant as Kennedy the 2nd). And the only reason I mentioned my study was because someone insinuated I didn't know what I was talking about.

[Zulu_DFA]

Schneidend wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, she isn't. You can even tell an Alliance Admiral (that is superior officer for Shepard)  to fu$$ off with his inspection of the Normandy, and suffer no consequences. Al Jilani, while intervewing you stresses, that the Normandy has been given away to the Citadel Council. And the 5th Fleet's CO Admiral Hackett humbly asks for your assistanse everytime he needs something.

The Alliance can't ask Shepard himself to do anything officially, that's true, but Mikhailovitch was a special situation. He wanted to make his inspection of the Normandy so he could make sure the Alliance never spends that much money on a single destroyer ever again. The Admiral clearly had no official power in that instance, as the Normandy was not part of his fleet.

Besides that, Shepard could simply beat the crap out of the admiral and probably not suffer anything more than a slap on the wrists.

So...

Looks like Alliance and their pesky ambassabors have no real say over Shepard, or the Normandy. Udina manages to keep himself in game bu t he CAN NOT IMPOUND the NORMANDY. => It was the freaking Council who did this.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:14 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

...but there aren't much politicians in America that actually have some intelligence and aren't power hungry.

OK, Captain InternationalLawPhD, what makes you think Obama isn't just one of them (the power hungry)? His public image? A Nobel Prize?

Look. Actually a gamers' forum is not the right place to talk about real life politics, and especially flash your diploma. What makes you think I don't have one anyway? We are all Shepards here. So stow it. I never was serious about your lectures. Just having fun, no offence.

He has done certain things that have proven he's not power hungry which I am not going to describe here, but with which I do not mean his nobel prize or his public image (which, like I said before, is way too obviously meant as Kennedy the 2nd). And the only reason I mentioned my study was because someone insinuated I didn't know what I was talking about.

I am very much sorry, but you were the first to insinuate about people being incompetent. Just saying.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:07 .

[Schneidend]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Looks like Alliance and their pesky ambassabors have no real say over Shepard, or the Normandy. Udina manages to keep himself in game bu t he CAN NOT IMPOUND the NORMANDY. => It was the freaking Council who did this.

Yes, Zulu, the Alliance can't do anything to Shepard personally, but they can impound the Normandy to avoid an international incident. That's why the lockdown can be disabled from Udina's personal computer.

[Zulu_DFA]

Schneidend wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Looks like Alliance and their pesky ambassabors have no real say over Shepard, or the Normandy. Udina manages to keep himself in game bu t he CAN NOT IMPOUND the NORMANDY. => It was the freaking Council who did this.

Yes, Zulu, the Alliance can't do anything to Shepard personally, but they can impound the Normandy to avoid an international incident. That's why the lockdown can be disabled from Udina's personal computer.

No. The Alliance can not impound the Normandy, or Admiral Mickailovich wouldn't even bother to look at Shepard during his inspection. Even if they tried, to take it back unilaterally, it would be a major issue, a scandel. So they wouldn't do it. (Where the heck is Captain InternationalLawPhD, when he is so much needed? Ask him if you have a chance!)

And the lockdown can be disabled from the Ambassador's computer, because the Ambassador had a bit of a foresight and made sure the Council tought that he, Udina was with them entirely, and could handle his parvenu yokel jarhead petty spectre. Where as if Udina had not shut you up and tried to support your plea for Ilos mission, he would probably have been told to shut up himself, and the Normandy would have been really impounded by the C-Sec.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:27 .

[Azazel005]

The Normandy was "on loan" she is still crewed by alliance officers, the alliance could concievably quite easily have it's loan status revoked from the Spectre.

[DPSSOC]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So...

Looks like Alliance and their pesky ambassabors have no real say over Shepard, or the Normandy. Udina manages to keep himself in game bu t he CAN NOT IMPOUND the NORMANDY. => It was the freaking Council who did this.

Doesn't Udina himself say "I've locked down the Normandy, you're grounded"? and doesn't Anderson confirm that it was Udina who authourized the lockdown.  The Alliance may have no official control over Shepard or the Normandy while it's in his possession but they do have authority over their docking platform/bay/whatever where the Normandy is presently.

[Schneidend]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Zulu, you're operating under conjecture and assumption simply because it helps your case. When did anybody in the game ever state that Udina could control the locking mechanism because the Council trusted him with it? It doesn't. Udina tells you he's locked down your ship, and Anderson can unlock it from Udina's computer. The game explicitly states that it is Udina who has betrayed you, and not the Council. The Council never really took the Saren threat seriously to begin with, true, but they are not the ones who lockdown the Normandy.

[Zulu_DFA]

DPSSOC wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So...

Looks like Alliance and their pesky ambassabors have no real say over Shepard, or the Normandy. Udina manages to keep himself in game bu t he CAN NOT IMPOUND the NORMANDY. => It was the freaking Council who did this.

Doesn't Udina himself say "I've locked down the Normandy, you're grounded"? and doesn't Anderson confirm that it was Udina who authourized the lockdown.  The Alliance may have no official control over Shepard or the Normandy while it's in his possession but they do have authority over their docking platform/bay/whatever where the Normandy is presently.

OK, who authorized Udina to authorize the Citadel Spectre's Warship lockdown? If it wasn't the Council, then I concur, that Udina is way over his head. But why isn't Shepard trying to weep on Turian Councillor's shoulder about bad Udina who is arbitrary violating his "Above the Law" status? Why doesn't he simply put a hypervelocity round through the head of bad guy Udina and cut his ears for a souvenir? It doesn't look like he knows not how that sort of thing is done. And are the Council such morons (I know they are not bright, but they aren't really morons either), to let Udina fu$$ around on a spectre (= Council exclusive) business?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:38 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Schneidend wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Zulu, you're operating under conjecture and assumption simply because it helps your case. When did anybody in the game ever state that Udina could control the locking mechanism because the Council trusted him with it? It doesn't. Udina tells you he's locked down your ship, and Anderson can unlock it from Udina's computer. The game explicitly states that it is Udina who has betrayed you, and not the Council. The Council never really took the Saren threat seriously to begin with, true, but they are not the ones who lockdown the Normandy.

And you are operating in the wrong thread. There is another one somewhere, about Udina being... Mmmm... second best ambassador ever (if I remember correcly). This thread is full of me and people who approve of Udina and his actions/views/qualities and are having fun in the process. I started it precisely in order that we were not trolling senslessly on each other. See, I'm kinda guy who never takes explicit for granted. And sometimes even looks deeper then 1 millimiter thick shiny layer of things. And thinks that when there is politics in question of a gallactic level, it's a good assumption that there is something beneath that explicit layer. You are anoter kind of person. Good for you. So why you don't drop the matter and go to that other thread?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:55 .

[Schneidend]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And you are operating in the wrong thread. There is another one somewhere, about Udina being... Mmmm... second best ambassador ever (if I remember correcly). This thread is full of me and people who approve of Udina and his actions/views/qualities and are having fun in the process. I started it precisely in order that we were not trolling senslessly on each other. See, I'm kinda guy who never takes explicit for granted. And sometimes even looks deeper then 1 millimiter thick shiny layer of things. And thinks that when there is politics in question of a gallactic level, it's a good assumption that there is something beneath that explicit layer. You are anoter kind of person. Good for you. So why you don't drop the matter and go to that other thread?

You can look into "another layer" of something all you like, but you don't have even circumstantial that Udina wasn't responsible for the lockdown, much less empirical evidence. Everything points to Udina being the one who ordered the lockdown, and nothing points to the Council ordering the lockdown. There's another way you could phrase this post, and that's "I just make stuff up."

And, no, I won't leave this thread. Unfortunately for you, talking to a bunch of people who always agree with you all the time bores me.

[Zulu_DFA]

Empirical evidence: When shepard persists that it is imperative to go to Ilos, even if all by himself (but he is not going to just fly there like a bird, he needs the Normandy for that), the Turian Councillor says: "Ambassador, I've got the feeling Commander Shepard doesn't want to let the matter go."

Now you tell me what does it mean, if not "It's already been established that nobody goes to Ilos, and I'm growing friggin' impatient with the bone we were kind enough to through you, namely accepting your jarhead Shepard in the spectres, so will you, Udina, tell him to go fu$$ himself, since he clearly does not understand what we are telling him here, or I must take the burden of telling that to both of you, and involve the C-Seс in the matter? Noone fu$$ing goes to Ilos. Make sure of that ASAP, so that we could return to more important things!"?

And if by "empirical evidence" you mean some records of Council's closed confereces, I may advise you to eat you ME1 disk, maybe then those records will upload to your mind direclty.

Thank you for your time.

I've had enough of your anti-human bull! This is an OUTRAGE!!! and happy trolling.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 janvier 2010 - 04:35 .

[Schneidend]

OBJECTION! My bull**** is purely anti-Udina. I digs humans.



And really, I like Udina as a character, I just think he's a lousy ambassador. Also, your assertion that Udina did not lockdown the Normandy, and doesn't have the authority to do so, is flat-out wrong. This is all that I am arguing.



Perhaps I should be killed with fire or acid, such a troll am I.

[izmirtheastarach]

It is pointless to discuss this with Zula. I have tried. It's funny, because there have been a couple of threads the last few days, criticizing members for being obsessed with possible romance options.

But there is no one on these boards more obsessed with a character then Zula. He loves Udina like a father. He just cannot let this argument die. He is so obsessed that he brings it from forum to forum, not even waiting for the subject to come up, but starting the threads himself.

I think he has spent more time defending Udina then I spent playing Mass Effect 1.

Well, kudos to you, Zulu. You fight the good fight. And at night, in your dreams, you hold on tight to your favorite Ambassador. Don't let anyone tell you that it's weird and wrong. You stick to your guns.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 19 janvier 2010 - 04:42 .

[tommythetomcat]

I'm surprised you 2 were still arguing I said my piece and walked away, it was obviously swallowed up in the battle.

[Mr. Gerbz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

...but there aren't much politicians in America that actually have some intelligence and aren't power hungry.

OK, Captain InternationalLawPhD, what makes you think Obama isn't just one of them (the power hungry)? His public image? A Nobel Prize?

Look. Actually a gamers' forum is not the right place to talk about real life politics, and especially flash your diploma. What makes you think I don't have one anyway? We are all Shepards here. So stow it. I never was serious about your lectures. Just having fun, no offence.

He has done certain things that have proven he's not power hungry which I am not going to describe here, but with which I do not mean his nobel prize or his public image (which, like I said before, is way too obviously meant as Kennedy the 2nd). And the only reason I mentioned my study was because someone insinuated I didn't know what I was talking about.

I am very much sorry, but you were the first to insinuate about people being incompetent. Just saying.

I don't care who was first. All I did was bring up evidence that shows that I know what I'm talking about. That's all.