240 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Edit: Well said, Sylvianus.

Modifié par Il Divo, 13 juin 2013 - 03:16 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I'm kinda hoping that if the warden romanced and left with Morrigan it at least gets mentioned.

[Sol Downer]

Possible? Yes.

[MWImexico]

I would find strange to have no news about the Warden and Hawke. Two heroes who suddenly disappear when everything goes wrong, that's rather unlikely.

However, I think the cameos were very poorly managed in DA2 (esp. Alistair & Zevran) so I fear the worst.

In fact it is especially Hawke who worries me, sometimes it feels like his story did not make sense especially, like if it's incomplete in some way.

So i vote yes for more news (cameo or other) but only if it's well handled , I mean by That: no bugs + respect of our previous decisions.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

You know they could state the the Warden and Hawke went off to fight something and never returned, a greater evil perhaps?

[Sol Downer]

DinoSteve wrote...

You know they could state the the Warden and Hawke went off to fight something and never returned, a greater evil perhaps?

ala Darth Revan?

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Indeed, it would be a good way to tie up loose ends and they could build up that evil in future comics and bookd and that could be the plot to DA4.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 13 juin 2013 - 03:25 .

[Il Divo]

Ultimashade wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

You know they could state the the Warden and Hawke went off to fight something and never returned, a greater evil perhaps?

ala Darth Revan?

It's the natural consequence when the writers insist on making these characters relevant, while also telling us their stories are over. The mysterious disappearances of the Warden + Hawke suddenly makes the audience ask questions, which then causes them to demand answers.

On the bright side, while Bioware did butcher Revan + Exile with TOR, I've found that I'm still able to enjoy KotOR 1 + 2 + Restoration Mod very much.

[MWImexico]

DinoSteve wrote...

You know they could state the the Warden and Hawke went off to fight something and never returned, a greater evil perhaps?

At least, that's news !

But something credible pliiiz

[Darth Death]

My warden would probably ran away once he saw morrigan's face. My warden would say, "Why is your jaw so wide & your chin so long? Is this what happens when you bear children or what?"

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

Saying the "Warden's story is over" doesn't omit his/her plot relevance or the fact that Bioware is going to have a heck of a time explaining why a high profile character in Thedas suddenly drops out of the picture when he's involved in setting up Flemeth's antagonistic role.

Perhaps, but I think it's a highly preferable problem to having to deal with cries of "My Warden would never do that!"  "That's not how I imagined things!"  "He/She is ruined forever!"  etc.  Remember what happened to Anders, and that was just a companion.  Imagine the outcry of screwing up a former player character! 

Sure, but as I said, it's one which keeps the Warden relevant to the story arc. Wardens wandering off in Antiva assassinating random citizens don't have to worry about the plot implications in the same way as Wardens who are tied into the most controversial plot point of Dragon Age.

You and I for example have butted heads quite a few times on whether there will be repercussions for the OGB (which there should). So putting someone who has a habit of becoming involved in world-changing events right in the midst of world-changing events is going to be a problem.

I don't think we've butted heads so much about potential repercussions about the OGB.  What I disagree is that the Warden needs to be as heavilly involved in those consequences.  Personally, I don't see the Eluvian as doing much to keep the Warden relevant in future stories.  Whether the Warden's there, in Antiva, or Fereldan, or whatever, the Warden is still "out there, somewhere"

I say, let the Warden enjoy his/her retirement.  Bringing back the Warden is just asking for a Bus Crash

Like I said, it's the difference between leaving the Reapers mysterious or giving them a motive. Even if you'd prefer not having Bioware butcher the Warden, it doesn't make retirement a sensible plot point. It's just the lesser of two very bad writing decisions.

It's a risk I'm willing to take.  I'd rather have a mildly bad writing decision that leaves the Wardens intact than risk a butchering for the sake of tying up a loose end. 

Let's just say after the last couple of years, I don't have the confidence Bioware can pull off a cameo in a satisfying manner

Modifié par iakus, 13 juin 2013 - 03:39 .

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

I don't think we've butted heads so much about potential repercussions about the OGB.  What I disagree is that the Warden needs to be as heavilly involved in those consequences.  Personally, I don't see the Eluvian as doing much to keep the Warden relevant in future stories.  Whether the Warden's there, in Antiva, or Fereldan, or whatever, the Warden is still "out there, somewhere"

Where as I think it's much more likely that the character who has spent a good 2+ years of his time embroiled in politics affecting nations is probably not going to sit idly by with the potential end of the world at hand. This is why the Warden remains relevant.

We have Flemeth who raised Morrigan to be her vessel, only to kill Flemeth and be told after the fact by Morrigan that she's not really dead, is more powerful than anyone imagined, and that there is going to be the equivalent of Armageddon coming in the future. Oh, and you also potentially have a child possessed by an Archdemon whom you are helping to raise who had originally been involved in Flemeth's plans and will likely have a huge role in shaping the future, also considering Morrigan's plans.

That's alot of destiny to just set aside with "Hey, my Warden is on vacation".

It's a risk I'm willing to take.  I'd rather have a mildly bad writing decision that leaves the Wardens intact than risk a butchering for the sake of tying up a loose end. 

And that's fine. My only point is that it is in fact a bad writing decision, one which could have easily been avoided.

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

I say, let the Warden enjoy his/her retirement.  Bringing back the Warden is just asking for a Bus Crash

I'd say Ignoring the Warden completely whenever there is a cataclismic apocalypse happening is a car crash.

[MWImexico]

Well at least we knows from DAO's épilogues that the Warden disappears no matter what. (implying something big must have happened to him)

But Hawke?...is he on vacation far away or what?

Modifié par MWImexico, 13 juin 2013 - 03:50 .

[Iakus]

Sylvianus wrote...

That's not true, the warden's story for those who went through the Eluvian is all but finished. It's actually unfinished, the warden is now a part of a story arc, that of Morrigan and their child, and it's not really clear. I can't even think how he lives, what happened to him, what he has become after all these years, etc. The fact is that Morrigan is going to play a role and he is normally at her side. You don't want that to happen, fine, but no, his story isn't over at all if we have to be honest with the facts.

Morrigan finally decides to engage in a conflict after ten years, and the warden would be simply happy to remain behind while the world is burning ? That's it  ? Or will they tell us the old excuse of the mysterious disappearance again ?

Now, when I decided to follow Morrigan, I expected an outcome and consequences. Whether it's negative or positive, I don't care. We have that chance with DAI. Just leaving the warden alone without providing clarification, without responding to the interest that has been caused in the previous episode, without explaining the meaning of this decision and its effects on him, on them now, while Morrigan is going to play a big role , is a bit lame to me. That would make my choice totally irrelevant and leaving me in the blur. There's nothing worse than that to me. At least, I want something solid.

Also, yes it's the time of the inquisitor, but in the same time it doesn't mean that the warden can't finally have its closure, can't appear and even play a minor role.  It's less about the warden's adventure, ( DAO )  than warden's new life. We know that the inquisitor will be the hero.  Franckly the thought that Morrigan could play a big role in DAI leaving him behind into this mirror or I don't know where,  "having disappeared " as always with Bioware, is a bit hard to swallow.

You keep talking about Leliana's case, as if that was an example to follow. It's not. Many folks, myself included thought it was ridiculous that Leliana was in Kirkwall, as the divine's agent without even mentioning the warden. Where was her love while she was doing her job for the Divine all that time, all these years ? * Poof * just mysteriously disappeared, deal with it ? People were just confused. I thought it was really bad, even if Leliana wasn't my LI.

I personally don't want the same weird thing to be repeated. I'm not saying there couldn't be other better ways, but at least let's try to learn from DAII's mistakes.

Bilbo Baggins was the central figure around the events of The Hobbit.  His actions helped shape the future of Middle Earth.  But what was his role in The Lord of the Rings?  Minimal, at best.  Little more than reminders of what happened and yes, he was still kicking around.  He's not stabbing orcs, rescuing dwarves from giant spiders, or riddling with dragons.  It wasn't his story anymore.  Now it's Frodo's

[Maclimes]

Cassandra: "I'm looking for Hawke. The Champion. The Viscount. The LEADER of your entire CITY."

Secretary: "He's not in right now."

Cassandra: "How long has he been gone? Where did he go? When will he return?"

Secretary: "A couple of months. I dunno. He's just not here."

Cassandra: "What?!? He just vanished? No explanation? Isn't he basically the king? Shouldn't someone have a general idea which direction he went?"

Secretary: "I dunno. You can leave a message if you like."

[Iakus]

wright1978 wrote...

iakus wrote...

I say, let the Warden enjoy his/her retirement.  Bringing back the Warden is just asking for a Bus Crash

I'd say Ignoring the Warden completely whenever there is a cataclismic apocalypse happening is a car crash.

Well, I suppose he could always make a reappearance just to die to a cyborg ninja

But seriously, I'm not really saying the Warden should be totally ignored.  But any attempt to have them play an active role, even a small one, in the game's events is just asking fro trouble.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Bilbo Baggins was the central figure around the events of The Hobbit.  His actions helped shape the future of Middle Earth.  But what was his role in The Lord of the Rings?  Minimal, at best.  Little more than reminders of what happened and yes, he was still kicking around.  He's not stabbing orcs, rescuing dwarves from giant spiders, or riddling with dragons.  It wasn't his story anymore.  Now it's Frodo's

Well, for one, Bilbo was gone before the important events of Lord of the Rings had even gotten underway. By that point, he is the rough equivalent of a Warden who went to Antiva or something similar. And (based on the movies at least), by the time he reappears in Fellowship/Rivendell, he's too old to do absolutely anything.

I'd say that's a touch different from a hitghly developed Warrior with darkspawn blood in his veins who constantly becomes embroiled in large scale conflicts and to some extent is responsible for causing the OGB.

Edit: I'd say a better comparison might be Gandalf, who is alive and healthy, deciding to ignore the threat of the One Ring because he'd rather go around conjuring fireworks for children.

Modifié par Il Divo, 13 juin 2013 - 04:33 .

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

Well, for one, Bilbo was gone before the important events of Lord of the Rings had even gotten underway. By that point, he is the rough equivalent of a Warden who went to Antiva or something similar. And (based on the movies at least), by the time he reappears in Fellowship/Rivendell, he's too old to do absolutely anything.

And in the books he was part of the Council of Elrond and literally the first to volunteer to take the One Ring back to Mordor to destroy it.  Before Gandalf  pretty much literally said "Thanks, but your part of the story is done"

I'd say that's a touch different from a hitghly developed Warrior with darkspawn blood in his veins who constantly becomes embroiled in large scale conflicts and to some extent is responsible for causing the OGB.

The Warden at this point hasn't taken part in a "large scale conflict" in the better part fo a decade

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

And in the books he was part of the Council of Elrond and literally the first to volunteer to take the One Ring back to Mordor to destroy it.  Before Gandalf  pretty much literally said "Thanks, but your part of the story is done"

Oh, that's...very weak, to say the least. I would hope Tolkien could come up with a better reason than "because I say so".

The Warden at this point hasn't taken part in a "large scale conflict" in the better part fo a decade

Hey, wasn't it you who said that it's up to us to decide what our Warden's been up to? 

Still, I think the point remains. Even given the different ages a player can give their Warden, it's not inconceivable that he would have some use, either in combat or for his experience, given that Morrigan is foretelling doom or rather "great change" across the land.

Modifié par Il Divo, 13 juin 2013 - 04:51 .

[Jerrybnsn]

The most important preson in Thedas is suppose to me, right?

[Baelyn]

iakus wrote...

And in the books he was part of the Council of Elrond and literally the first to volunteer to take the One Ring back to Mordor to destroy it.  Before Gandalf  pretty much literally said "Thanks, but your part of the story is done"

I'd say that sounds more like a nice way of saying "Thanks but you are too old to be worth ****."

[Miltialdes]

For me the herald and the hero have to been appeared at end of the game. It is Armageddon! The sky is tired. It rains meteorites. Monsters, Dragons ,.... None is save in Thedias! The world needs all his heros included the new one, The Warden and Hawke.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

And in the books he was part of the Council of Elrond and literally the first to volunteer to take the One Ring back to Mordor to destroy it.  Before Gandalf  pretty much literally said "Thanks, but your part of the story is done"

Oh, that's...very weak, to say the least. I would hope Tolkien could come up with a better reason than "because I say so".

“Very well, very well, Master Elrond!” said Bilbo suddenly. “Say no more! It is plain enough what you are pointing at. Bilbo the silly hobbit started this affair, and Bilbo had better finish it, or himself. I was very comfortable here, and getting on with my book. If you want to know, I am just writing an ending for it. I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true; and anyway there will evidently have to be several more chapters, if I live to write them. It is a frightful nuisance. When ought I to start?” …
“Of course, my dear Bilbo,” said Gandalf. “If you had really started this affair, you might be expected to finish it. But you know well enough now that starting is too great a claim for any, and that only a small part is played in great deeds by any hero…. You cannot take this thing back. It has passed on. If you need my advice any longer, I should say that your part is ended, unless as a recorder. Finish your book, and leave the ending unaltered!”

Hey, wasn't it you who said that it's up to us to decide what our Warden's been up to? 

Still, I think the point remains. Even given the different ages a player can give their Warden, it's not inconceivable that he would have some use, either in combat or for his experience, given that Morrigan is foretelling doom or rather "great change" across the land.

Still doesn't address the dangers of "My Warden would never do that!"  or "How could you do that to my character?" or "Why can't my Warden...?"

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

iakus wrote...

I say, let the Warden enjoy his/her retirement.  Bringing back the Warden is just asking for a Bus Crash

I'd say Ignoring the Warden completely whenever there is a cataclismic apocalypse happening is a car crash.

Well, I suppose he could always make a reappearance just to die to a cyborg ninja

But seriously, I'm not really saying the Warden should be totally ignored.  But any attempt to have them play an active role, even a small one, in the game's events is just asking fro trouble.

Well i think they can & should be playing an active role offscreen. I'd prefer a blanket 'the warden has gone to his/her calling' than the warden fiddled whilst rome burned.