240 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightdragon8]

The Valiant Misanthropist wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Dovaaa wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

The thing is, the Warden's look is decided by players, so it's pretty much impossible to make him / her physically appear in DA:I.

Then it would of been impossible for us to import our Shepards into Mass Effect 2 and so on. 
Mass Effect 3 was terribly off at first, but they fixed that in patches/updates. 
I don't see why that couldn't do that also.

yes because in reality The Warden is also named Hawke, and was really a human all this time....

Mass Effect KEPT the face gen data, DA did NOT. big diffence. So no its not Possable to port that face gen data, because it was never kept.

Please please, try to understand alittle how computers work...

Mass effect they had planed to use the SAME CHARACTER for 3 games, so they left a spot int he save game port data to use the face Gen. And it worked, ever read the forums and they talk about "Flags" its basicly this. in DA2 port, warden face gen data, wasn't ported over. (at least from what I have read it doesn't) so gonig from DA:O ot DA2, that data is lost, and if we go from DA2, to DA:I it wont have the data to make the Warden because the port data didn't get saved into the DA2 port data.

understand?

You do realize they could go back and make an update or some **** like that where they save the Wardens Race, Origin, skin tone et cetera. They've changed the engine and in DA2 they changed the look of most of the characters and again a little in DA3 it seems. Who's to say they won't do the same with the Warden and only having the basic look he/she had. I mean it is like 9 or so years after Origins right? 

yes they could but that also means that you have to play DA2 all over agian.

@Dovaaa Yes, I do know what suggestion means. But I'm telling you what is possable at teh current state of the save game port data IS at right now.

Asking for a feature that requires an update to the orginal game + force people to replay DA2 and making them make the same choices, just so "we can see our Warden in DA:I" sounds like way too much work.

Because if they where going to do it, they will need to get an update out withen 6 months that includes bug fixs that wont be varified until DA:I comes out, so that will just add work, that in reality, doesn't need to be done. just so I can see how screwed up the new engine changes the face of the warden. which I bet will do a good job on some, and a horriable job on others. Edit: Also there is a good chance that they would need to update DA2 also to make sure it keeps the data, So now that is 1 game they 'will' have to update, and 1 game hey may have to update, so now they have 2 other games that they have to change.

To much work for too little gain. I mean considering all that is wanted is a cameo, that will be what 1 min max of screen time. Agian too much work for too little effort Edit: (i mean gain), so i rather them not worry about giving fans a "Squee moment" at the price of more than likely... (on a good day) 10 hours of updating, with 20+ hours of testing, and the same for DA2. Just for a "cameo" apperence by the Warden.

Let them do that for some new IP insted of having to go back to an old game to change it.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 14 juin 2013 - 02:18 .

[Angrywolves]

Didn't know all the tech stuff about the saves. It's a rational assumption to make, since we players can boot up an old game save and look at a warden's face we haven't seen in months or years that Bioware could take that data and put the warden in a brief cameo in DAI . This one poster says it's impossibl e. He may be right. He may be wrong.

[TK514]

The face/race/gender data has to be somewhere in your saves, or every time you continued your game, or changed zones, or basically did anything past the character generator that showed your character's face, it would reset to some default.

So "all" they'd have to do is create a converter that takes that data and translates it into the new engine.  Of course, you'd have to have both your DA:O and DAII saves available, and they'd have to devise a 'dual import' tool.

Modifié par TK514, 14 juin 2013 - 02:09 .

[thats1evildude]

I don't know how they're handling the save import system, but let's suppose they do it via a check-off list or comic book, and one of the questions asked is "Does the Warden still live?"

I wonder if it might be possible to have a character creator at the beginning of the game where you yourself re-create the Warden's appearance. (This would be separate from the character creator for the main PC.) The Warden then shows up in a non-speaking cameo later on.

The impetus is then on the player for establishing the Warden's new look. Some will still grouse that the Warden won't look exactly the same, but it's a new engine.

Anyways, just a thought.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 14 juin 2013 - 02:15 .

[Androme]

 It's also desirable.

[BlueMagitek]

But, again, why does it matter that the Warden show up? Yeah, he stopped a Blight, but that was localized in Ferelden, and it certainly doesn't mean he's off in every scenario everywhere.

For non follow Morrigan Wardens, you're probably going to hear about them mustering a defense (and doing quite well) against the torn veil Demons in Amarathine / Ferelden.

[Nightdragon8]

Honestly I'm talking about a Cameo, if the Warden, Hero of ferldian is going to be a major player in DA:I then I agree, that I think the effort should be made, and if the Hero is dead, then they should then also allow import face gen data from the Orlsian Warden. But ONLY if its going to be a major figure in the game otherwise. I rather them spend the time doing something else. Cause if its going to be even a 5 min cameo.. still not worth the extra hours they will need to put into the game, to make the char gen.

Also adding in a Character Gen for your warden would be spoilers big time. (Geee I wonder why I have to remake my Warden....)

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

Who said anything me having to address it? Those are concerns. They're very realistic concerns.

What I'm dismissing is this notion of the Warden's story being finished, for those who have passed through the Eluvian and particularly those who had the OGB. A small number of players in terms of total permutations, but it does raise the issue of Bioware leaving different Wardens on different footings, which shouldn't be done if their hope/plan is to avoid touching the character anymore, much like DA2's mysterious disappearance.

If you're saying that you'd rather they leave those Wardens' stories unfinished, that's fine. But it's not like they left them at a great stopping point in the manner most other Wardens did.

I still don't get it.  If the Warden passes through the Eluvian, with Morrigan, theey're somwhere else.  If the Warden marries Allistair, they're are somewhere else.  If the Warden goes off to Antiva, that Warden is somewhere else.

All surviving Wardens travel somewhere, and presumably have new adventures.  What makes the Eluvian so special?  

The OGB?  Sure that's something to be dealt with, but that's a Morrigan project.  Heck for all we know, the Warden can't return to Thedas.  

As far as I'm concerned, the further adventures of the Warden should be left to our own imagination.  Lots of speculation for everybody.  And this is the good speculation, not the ME3 kind.

[wright1978]

BlueMagitek wrote...

But, again, why does it matter that the Warden show up? Yeah, he stopped a Blight, but that was localized in Ferelden, and it certainly doesn't mean he's off in every scenario everywhere.

For non follow Morrigan Wardens, you're probably going to hear about them mustering a defense (and doing quite well) against the torn veil Demons in Amarathine / Ferelden.

Yep this. Or even Orzammar if Dwarven.

Modifié par wright1978, 14 juin 2013 - 06:32 .

[Yalision]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Who said anything me having to address it? Those are concerns. They're very realistic concerns.

What I'm dismissing is this notion of the Warden's story being finished, for those who have passed through the Eluvian and particularly those who had the OGB. A small number of players in terms of total permutations, but it does raise the issue of Bioware leaving different Wardens on different footings, which shouldn't be done if their hope/plan is to avoid touching the character anymore, much like DA2's mysterious disappearance.

If you're saying that you'd rather they leave those Wardens' stories unfinished, that's fine. But it's not like they left them at a great stopping point in the manner most other Wardens did.

I still don't get it.  If the Warden passes through the Eluvian, with Morrigan, theey're somwhere else.  If the Warden marries Allistair, they're are somewhere else.  If the Warden goes off to Antiva, that Warden is somewhere else.

All surviving Wardens travel somewhere, and presumably have new adventures.  What makes the Eluvian so special?  

The OGB?  Sure that's something to be dealt with, but that's a Morrigan project.  Heck for all we know, the Warden can't return to Thedas.  

As far as I'm concerned, the further adventures of the Warden should be left to our own imagination.  Lots of speculation for everybody.  And this is the good speculation, not the ME3 kind.

This Eluvian is special for multiple reasons. The Warden is involved post-Blight with Morrigan, a returning character in some capacity. If Morrigan is a companion, then conversation involving the Warden is all but unavoidable without some Mass Effect 3-level handwaving. The Warden is also to have hinted to have more story to tell years ago by Bioware staff. So it would make sense, especially since the Wardens will have some involvment given the trailer.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

I still don't get it.  If the Warden passes through the Eluvian, with Morrigan, theey're somwhere else.  If the Warden marries Allistair, they're are somewhere else.  If the Warden goes off to Antiva, that Warden is somewhere else.

Every character is somewhere during the course of a story. That's not a sensible criticism.

*game of thrones spoilers*

Hell, Tyrion and Arya are in new locations post Storm of Swords, but I suspect most fans would be outraged if Martin just dropped said characters altogether. "Arya becomes an assassin....and never returns to Westeros, the end". Bit of a lame duck right there, isn't it? 

The Warden in Antiva is screwing around. He could be drinking in a tavern. Or helping Zevran murder people. He's not near events of world-shaking significance.

To use my earlier example, what you're suggesting is the equivalent of Gandalf going off to play with fireworks while the world burns around him. It especially doesn't work when you're playing a character who is heavily intertwined with said plot points. Your character was interested/involved in potentially killing Flemeth, creating a demon child, and tracing Morrigan back to the Eluvian. He's not going to appear in the next Dragon Age because...why? He's tired and wants a break? Again, from a writing standpoint, even if he's no longer going to be the Frodo of the series, the main character, it doesn't make him the Bilbo, some guy shoved aside for no discernible reason.

All surviving Wardens travel somewhere, and presumably have new adventures.  What makes the Eluvian so special?

 

Because most other stories don't supply the Warden with the premise for a new adventure. In most stories, the Warden goes off and does...whatever. He's off gallivanting with a love interest or messing around. Post-Eluvian? The events with Morrigan/OGB/Flemeth are the new adventure. Hence why I say it was a mistake to put the Warden on top of important events again. Even if those other endings did hint at the Warden having another story, they're not hinted as being stories which Gaider will explore. Morrigan, the OGB, Flemeth, end of the world, etc, are all plot points which the Warden is involved in. And they're all plot points which it's clear the team is interested in exploring, hence why dropping the Warden is a problem.

Good storytelling is something which applies across every medium. In film or novel form, if the story ended with the main protagonist traveling to a magical realm with their main love interest to raise their God Child after heavy implications about Flemeth being evil, the audience would be expecting to find out how the story resolves. 

Maybe Bioware can hold off a bit longer on the plot point by having the Warden babysit the OGB while Morrigan is involved, but at some point, the question of why the Warden is sitting on his ass would need to be addressed.

The OGB?  Sure that's something to be dealt with, but that's a Morrigan project.  Heck for all we know, the Warden can't return to Thedas. 

It was a Morrigan project. Much like how the Archdemon began as a Duncan project. Then, the Warden became involved. Again, God-tier character here capable of murdering armies of darkspawn alone and changing political directions at their whim don't make good passive characters.

As far as I'm concerned, the further adventures of the Warden should be left to our own imagination.  Lots of speculation for everybody.  And this is the good speculation, not the ME3 kind.

Good speculation comes when I don't have to justify heavyhanded writing. From a writing perspective, the Warden is simply another character. The only reason the question exists is because peopl are (rightly) afraid of Bioware butchering their character. It doesn't make the writing any less bizarre, from a plot perspective. This is an example of suggesting bad writing to prevent even worse bad writing. We're screwed, regardless. All for something which was avoidable by (wait for it)...not letting players reunite with Morrigan.

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 juin 2013 - 10:25 .

[Suoma]

Is a Warden Cameo possible?
He/She must be in this game couse of:
1) People like GW or Hawk make history of Thedas. It will be strange if they just disappear.
2) OGB. Its easy if Morigan has child from Loghain or Alistar, but if she has child form GW, than child must closely resemble GW.
3) If GW dont help Morigan and his own child than it was not my GW.
P.S. Sorry fo bad English.

Modifié par Suoma, 14 juin 2013 - 01:01 .

[Lord Issa]

Should be easy enough if cloaks are added. Just have a cloaked figure seen with their LI.

[Suoma]

Lord Issa wrote...

Should be easy enough if cloaks are added. Just have a cloaked figure seen with their LI.

Its
easy if Morigan has child from Loghain or Alistar, but if she has
child form GW, than child must closely resemble GW.

[Jaison1986]

Or the child could simply have her features. And that's it problem solved.

[Sylvianus]

iakus wrote...
And I say be caraeful what you wish for.

Do you really think that if the Warden made an appearance, that it would truly be "your" Warden?  It would not, it would be "Bioware's Warden"  We'd have no control over what happened to him (or her).

Do you think you're Warden, once back, would hunt down Leliana and try to "finish the job"
Or would the Warden seek out Isabela for another hookup?
Would your Warden team up with your Hawke and shake the heavens with their combined awesomeness?
Or take up the title of Commander of the Grey once again?
Would the Warden lead an army?  Broker a truce?  Return to Alistair's side?  Hunt down mages?

The answer is:"It doesn't matter".  Because again, it's not your Warden anymore.  You would have zero control over what happened to him.  Bioware could do anything they wanted with him.  Anything.  And all of us would have to sit there and take it.  Is that a risk you're willing to take?  To put your character, all our characters, into Bioware's hands as an NPC?

I, for one, am not.

If the Warden pulled a Bilbo and merely sat back and chronicled the adventures fo the Inquisitor, I'd say we all get off very lucky indeed.

Personally, I don't see the point about headcanon, if  * my * warden's story doesn't make any sense anymore to begin with.  If we let things the way they are, we are screwed. So, yep, I know what is at stake and I'm fine with it.

Yes, I'm willing to take the risk. Better than nothing actually. Obviously, those who are positive about seeing their warden as a cameo are perfectly aware that Bioware would have its hand on their character in that game since the PC they control is the inquisitor. People are smart enough to understand that if their warden appears with finally its closure in DAI, they'll have to deal a bit with Bioware's answer. And to be honest, I'd find really funny to see my warden through the eyes of my new PC.  A couple of years before, I would cry, now, I won't mind at all, as it's the case for a few folks as well. Also I trust bioware to do something good for its closure. Some don't, well, that's their right.

The truth is I clearly can't understand how you can be so conservative with * your * warden who had come to the mirror with Morrigan while there's absolutely nothing to protect. It's not like the other wardens who had got at least something which looks like closure for their story. It's not the case for those who went through the Eluvians. We are totally in the middle of something we know nothing about.  I can't even imagine my warden's life, it frustates me as hell, and I can't tell to myself, * well his story is over * because actually that's not the case at all.

And don't count on me to simply ignore what happened in the game like many did, and invent another story. I won't do that. I want to imagine things from real material, remaining as faithful as possible to the frame of the game and the franchise.

 " Leave my warden alone Bioware, it's mine ! Please Bioware don't give a **** about my warden's story, unclear, unfinished, between the lines, messed up, while now my Li is going to play a big role as well, increasing the number of questions. Just focus on other characters  "

Really ? How do you want me to agree with that position " ?  There's nothing worse.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 14 juin 2013 - 04:59 .

[Anubis722]

I believe it's possible, if the Warden does have a cameo i imaged will be like a passing of the torch type thing. the question is will Bioware do it.

Modifié par AnubisEgyptainLordofDeath, 14 juin 2013 - 03:56 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

They should just set a default look for all the different Origins, and then not attempt to make a converter, since even if they did create the converter, BSN would be filled with people bitccing and moaning about their Warden, not looking like himself/herself. With adefault look, they avoid spending time on a converter, that wouldn't be appreciated anyway.

[MassPredator]

I want my Warden as a party member. I think is possible.

[Wickwrackscar]

I can totally understand, that many players don't want to give up control over the Warden or have their headcanon destroyed.

Personally however, I have a different attitude towards the issue. I would very much like to see the Warden and Hawke again. And I'm curious to see what Bioware imagines happening to those characters. For that I am willing and able to relinquish control over the Warden and Hawke, fully aware of the risk that I might be disappointed with the outcome. And as far as headcanon goes: I have multiple playthroughs with different stories that all exist in paralell. Neither one is more real or more official or more important than the other. The story I imagine and the story Bioware imagines for my warden can coexist without making me feel uncomfortable.

But in principle I can see why people don't like the idea. Because on the other hand, I wouldn't like to give up control over my Shepards and have them appear as NPCs. Over the course of three games, I feel more attached to them than to the Warden or Hawke.

I guess we have to wait (a long time) and see how Bioware will handle it.

[DonutsDealer]

I would like to see a cameo of the Warden.

Just get a full armored grey warden in a war room where is also the main character and get some random ask: "Who is that grey warden?", then he gets as an answer: "He is the hero of Ferelden and i heard he has a relation with..."

That wouldnt be too hard and you only need 6 models for the Warden (1 per race and gender) and also fixes the face and voice issue and touches the romance business.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

Every character is somewhere during the course of a story. That's not a sensible criticism.

It is absolutely a sensible criticism.  Because we are talking about two different stories.  The Warden's was about the Fifth Blight.  The Inquisitor's is about the mage/templar war and its fallout.  They just happen to both be set on Thedas.

Could the Warden get involved in the Inquisitor's story?  Sure.  But I think it would be a really, really bad idea.  In fact, I can pretty much guarantee it would p*ss off more people than it would please.

Because most other stories don't supply the Warden with the premise for a new adventure. In most stories, the Warden goes off and does...whatever. He's off gallivanting with a love interest or messing around. Post-Eluvian? The events with Morrigan/OGB/Flemeth are the new adventure. Hence why I say it was a mistake to put the Warden on top of important events again. Even if those other endings did hint at the Warden having another story, they're not hinted as being stories which Gaider will explore. Morrigan, the OGB, Flemeth, end of the world, etc, are all plot points which the Warden is involved in. And they're all plot points which it's clear the team is interested in exploring, hence why dropping the Warden is a problem.

See, that's where I see things differently.  The Warden gallivanting off with a LI, or with some new cause, or even staying with the Grey Wardens are also premises for new adventures.  Going off with Morrigna is hardly unique in that regard.  Heck I'll bet there are thousands of fanfictions out there chronicling the further adventures of assorted Heroes of Ferelden.  Including Wardens who didn't pass beyond the Eluvian.    

In fact, what makes the OGB more relevant to the Warden beyond the Eluvian than an OGB fathered by Alistair?  Or by the Warden who stayed on Thedas?

Good storytelling is something which applies across every medium. In film or novel form, if the story ended with the main protagonist traveling to a magical realm with their main love interest to raise their God Child after heavy implications about Flemeth being evil, the audience would be expecting to find out how the story resolves.

Sure.  And at some point I expect it will be addressed.  But I don't think it will necessitate the Warden's involvement.  The Warden's story is linked to the OGB, but they are not the same story.

Maybe Bioware can hold off a bit longer on the plot point by having the Warden babysit the OGB while Morrigan is involved, but at some point, the question of why the Warden is sitting on his ass would need to be addressed.

It was a Morrigan project. Much like how the Archdemon began as a Duncan project. Then, the Warden became involved. Again, God-tier character here capable of murdering armies of darkspawn alone and changing political directions at their whim don't make good passive characters.

I find this to me a better argument to keep the Warden away from the story. Since it would necessitate one of two things:

1) The Warden apears and solves everything, but this god-like darkspawn slaying machine.
 Or
2) The Warden proves incapable of dealing with whatever, necessiting aid, rescuing, or just plain dies.

One basically takes the story away from the current player and givs it to an NPC.  The other would have players howling how thier awesome former character was "ruined"

You are aware of the complaints surrounding Revan in SWTOR, yes?

Good speculation comes when I don't have to justify heavyhanded writing. From a writing perspective, the Warden is simply another character. The only reason the question exists is because peopl are (rightly) afraid of Bioware butchering their character. It doesn't make the writing any less bizarre, from a plot perspective. This is an example of suggesting bad writing to prevent even worse bad writing. We're screwed, regardless. All for something which was avoidable by (wait for it)...not letting players reunite with Morrigan.

I actually kinda agree with the sentiment.  Except for the last part.  I see no difference between a Warden who reunited with Morrigan and one who didn't, save their exact locaton.

Modifié par iakus, 14 juin 2013 - 06:15 .

[Nyx_Necrodragon]

I'd like to see my Wardens again (I have too many now). Maybe Bioware could do something like in one of the Star Wars games at the beining there was some guy who asked you a bunch of questions and depending on how you answered them was the circumstances of the game, like if at the begining Cassandra asked the PC about Warden's race, background etc and give her some reason for asking the questions eg "I'm just making sure you know who you're looking for" or something along those lines

[Iakus]

Sylvianus wrote...

The truth is I clearly can't understand how you can be so conservative with * your * warden who had come to the mirror with Morrigan while there's absolutely nothing to protect. It's not like the other wardens who had got at least something which looks like closure for their story. It's not the case for those who went through the Eluvians. We are totally in the middle of something we know nothing about.  I can't even imagine my warden's life, it frustates me as hell, and I can't tell to myself, * well his story is over * because actually that's not the case at all.

And don't count on me to simply ignore what happened in the game like many did, and invent another story. I won't do that. I want to imagine things from real material, remaining as faithful as possible to the frame of the game and the franchise.

 " Leave my warden alone Bioware, it's mine ! Please Bioware don't give a **** about my warden's story, unclear, unfinished, between the lines, messed up, while now my Li is going to play a big role as well, increasing the number of questions. Just focus on other characters  "

Really ? How do you want me to agree with that position " ?  There's nothing worse.

THis is how I think of it:  One story ends.  Another begins.  The Warden's story, that of the Fifth Blight, is over.  Yes the Warden has other stories (Awakening, Golems of Angmorak, WItch Hunt, perhaps more)  but those are different stories.  I'm happy with how things left at the end of these stroies with my Wardens, all my Wardens.    

As for Morrigan, we don't know how big a role she will play in DAI.  I say wait for more information before jumping to that conclusion.

Edit:  if , somehow, Morrigan or the OGB were to heavilly involve the Warden, then I would want to be the Warden in that story.  not render him to the status of NPC/glorified redshirt.

Modifié par iakus, 14 juin 2013 - 07:01 .

[The Night Mammoth]

I think they should just go for it to be honest. Hawke and the Warden are big enough names in the world that I think it'd be passing strange if they weren't involved. I'd absolutely love if BioWare just put the effort in and had them appear at some point. It's just a matter of time and resources, there's nothing stopping them from detecting race, gender, background and current situation, as far as I know.

If not, then references at least. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 14 juin 2013 - 06:19 .