209 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

KaiserShep wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Too bad he's right about Mass Effect 1 establishing the expectation that the Reapers are coming.

Too bad that nothing about that claim can be objectively deduced from the narrative.

No, it can't. Unfortunately, though, both Shepard and Anderson (or Udina?) lay on their little speeches that essentially hook the trilogy into an impending bout with the reapers in some fashion anyway. Problem is that they didn't address it properly in the sequels. I guess with the narrative as is, you could just chalk it up to Shepard being vigilant (or paranoid) and the story could potentially end right there if you wish. 

Poor trilogy planning

[KaiserShep]

Poor trilogy planning? Sure you jest. Geth VI is the robot Starbuck, come back from the dead to guide everyone to victory.

[Fixers0]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Besides the main character saying it will happen, which you tried to brush aside without addressing the concept of reader expectation and authorial promises?

The're also is the concept of the unsupported claim, were a stament is made without proper evidence to back it up, which is exactly what Shepard does, it also goes back to the appeal to probability, were a claim is made soley because it can happen.

[GimmeDaGun]

Fixers0 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Count me out... but thank God, we have you here. 

I don't give my hopes up, even you will see the light some day, though it does make me wonder why you'd keep making post which exbith a very questionable level of intelliance.

Obviously because I love being stupid and lost in darkness... But I'm greatful to the Maker that He created such geniouses like you who manage to see everything clearly and can present us simpletons the objective truth with such class. I'm humbled, and feel really bad now for daring to exhibit such a very questionable level of intelligence by my posts... but at the same time I'm rejoiced by the fact that even such a person like you whom I can't even touch sees a tiny glimpse of hope for me to come out to the light some day... I especially enjoy your amazing lexical knowledge you present by all those links. 

And I just adore your sense of humour. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 14 juin 2013 - 11:39 .

[CronoDragoon]

Fixers0 wrote...

The're also is the concept of the unsupported claim, were a stament is made without proper evidence to back it up, which is exactly what Shepard does, it also goes back to the appeal to probability, were a claim is made soley because it can happen.

Do you also believe that Shepard dies after the breath scene ends?

[Red Panda]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

The're also is the concept of the unsupported claim, were a stament is made without proper evidence to back it up, which is exactly what Shepard does, it also goes back to the appeal to probability, were a claim is made soley because it can happen.

Do you also believe that Shepard dies after the breath scene ends?

As Shepard is human, it is safe to assume death after the breath scene. The exact hour, well, that's up for debate.

[Fixers0]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Do you also believe that Shepard dies after the breath scene ends?

I don't know, there's insufficient to say what exactly will hapen to Shepard after that specific scene has ended. Shepard will die at some point, that's clear but when, i don't know.

Modifié par Fixers0, 13 juin 2013 - 07:50 .

[Wayning_Star]

I vote ME, does that count OP?

[Bleachrude]

Fixers0, being trapped in dark space doesn't actually make sense (there's nothing stopping anyone from simply travelling via standard FTL). There's also the fact that this isn't that big a distance.

Dark space is simply the space between galaxies. The distance between the Milky Way galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud (our nearest galactic neighbour) is ONLY 160,000 light years away.

Using the 15ly/day figure for REGULAR FTL by the races, this comes out to roughly 11k days or about 30 years (true, this is assuming non-stop no discharge travel). But that;s not exactly an insurmountable obstacle for an ancient race especially if you assume that the reapers are lying in-between the two galaxies and their FTL is twice as fast

(That changes the 30 year figure to only 7.25 years).

Modifié par Bleachrude, 13 juin 2013 - 07:52 .

[Fixers0]

Bleachrude wrote...

Fixers0, being trapped in dark space doesn't actually make sense (there's nothing stopping anyone from simply travelling via standard FTL). There's also the fact that this isn't that big a distance.

Dark space is simply the space between galaxies. The distance between the Milky Way galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud (our nearest galactic neighbour) is ONLY 160,000 light years away.

Using the 15ly/day figure for REGULAR FTL by the races, this comes out to roughly 11k days or about 30 years (true, this is assuming non-stop no discharge travel). But that;s not exactly an insurmountable obstacle for an ancient race.

You seem to work  under a lot of assumptions here, all which have not been proven by the time of ME1 and some of them which have never been proven In the ME series at all. And i can't argue with your assumptions, lest I make such unbased statments as well.

Modifié par Fixers0, 13 juin 2013 - 07:57 .

[GimmeDaGun]

Bleachrude wrote...

Fixers0, being trapped in dark space doesn't actually make sense (there's nothing stopping anyone from simply travelling via standard FTL). There's also the fact that this isn't that big a distance.

Dark space is simply the space between galaxies. The distance between the Milky Way galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud (our nearest galactic neighbour) is ONLY 160,000 light years away.

Using the 15ly/day figure for REGULAR FTL by the races, this comes out to roughly 11k days or about 30 years (true, this is assuming non-stop no discharge travel). But that;s not exactly an insurmountable obstacle for an ancient race especially if you assume that the reapers are lying in-between the two galaxies and their FTL is twice as fast

(That changes the 30 year figure to only 7.25 years).

You are obviously one who stuck in the darkness too and can't see the light of  truth. So please stop showcasing such a low level of intelligence by your posts and repent! 

[CronoDragoon]

Fixers0 wrote...

I don't know, there's insufficient to say what exactly will hapen to Shepard after that specific scene has ended. Shepard will die at some point, that's clear but when, i don't know.

I take it you subscribe to a type of formalistic analysis then, insofar as you believe that the creator's intent behind a line of dialogue/scene/event and/or the effect such a line/scene/event on a reader is irrelevant; all that is relevant is literally what happens?

If so, okay.

[AresKeith]

Bleachrude wrote...

Fixers0, being trapped in dark space doesn't actually make sense (there's nothing stopping anyone from simply travelling via standard FTL). There's also the fact that this isn't that big a distance.

Dark space is simply the space between galaxies. The distance between the Milky Way galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud (our nearest galactic neighbour) is ONLY 160,000 light years away.

Using the 15ly/day figure for REGULAR FTL by the races, this comes out to roughly 11k days or about 30 years (true, this is assuming non-stop no discharge travel). But that;s not exactly an insurmountable obstacle for an ancient race especially if you assume that the reapers are lying in-between the two galaxies and their FTL is twice as fast

(That changes the 30 year figure to only 7.25 years).

The Reapers basically are lying in Dark Space, that's the whole reason for Sovereign signaling them

And FTL travel without a Mass Relay drains energy which would've hurt the Reapers after the events of Arrival which forced them to travel into the Galaxy for 6 months

[Fixers0]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I take it you subscribe to a type of formalistic analysis then, insofar as you believe that the creator's intent behind a line of dialogue/scene/event and/or the effect such a line/scene/event on a reader is irrelevant; all that is relevant is literally what happens?

Yes, I often do so as they provide the most accurate representation of the actual events that happen within a narrative, as the author's intent can quite often be misleading, Cerberus is a prime example.

[GimmeDaGun]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I don't know, there's insufficient to say what exactly will hapen to Shepard after that specific scene has ended. Shepard will die at some point, that's clear but when, i don't know.

I take it you subscribe to a type of formalistic analysis then, insofar as you believe that the creator's intent behind a line of dialogue/scene/event and/or the effect such a line/scene/event on a reader is irrelevant; all that is relevant is literally what happens?

If so, okay.

This kind of thinking or mindset you describe here is a bit too nerdy to me, and also narrow and very, very limited. But hey, we are all different. Only I'm amused by some people's confidence in their own level of intelligence and opinions and the lack of ability to understand other people's perspectives. Some of you guys here in these boards tend to spook the hell out of me... 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 13 juin 2013 - 08:09 .

[Bleachrude]

Fixers0 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Fixers0, being trapped in dark space doesn't actually make sense (there's nothing stopping anyone from simply travelling via standard FTL). There's also the fact that this isn't that big a distance.

Dark space is simply the space between galaxies. The distance between the Milky Way galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud (our nearest galactic neighbour) is ONLY 160,000 light years away.

Using the 15ly/day figure for REGULAR FTL by the races, this comes out to roughly 11k days or about 30 years (true, this is assuming non-stop no discharge travel). But that;s not exactly an insurmountable obstacle for an ancient race.

You seem to work  under a lot of assumptions here, all which have not been proven by the time of ME1 and some of them which have never been proven In the ME series at all. And i can't argue with your assumptions, lest I make such unbased statments as well.

The only assumption I made is that the reapers went to dark space inbetween the Milky way and our closest galactic neighbour (the large magellanic cloud).

Everything else is factual (the LMC IS only 160,000 light years away) or lore based (ME FTL via normal means is only 15 ly/day).

Again, there's nothing to my knowledge saying that you can't simply fly between galaxies (there's no Barrier a la what the TOS Star Trek had ---that was a complete fabrication on Trek's part to my knowledge).

One assumption that is not unreasonable IMO and given that Shepard et al treat the reapers as still coming, I think a valid assumption....

re: Characters with a bigger role.
The simple issue is that the cast is way too big...I have to admit, at the time I liked overall the huge amount of companions we had over 3 games, but look at the picture below...

http://images.euroga...0x-1/quality/91

That's a FREAKING lot of people to try and juggle and give decent TLC....I tend to think Smudboy tends to nitpick for nitpick's sake, but his charge that there are too many characters across the franchise, I find myself in agreement  with...

Even if we went to a third of that number, you're still looking at 6-7 companions which for many other RPGs that allow for companions is considered a more than fair number.

[Wayning_Star]

never agree with smudboy, the kids a troll..

[CronoDragoon]

Need to find a wallpaper-sized version.

[Fixers0]

Bleachrude wrote...
The only assumption I made is that the reapers went to dark space inbetween the Milky way and our closest galactic neighbour (the large magellanic cloud).

Everything else is factual (the LMC IS only 160,000 light years away) or lore based (ME FTL via normal means is only 15 ly/day).

Again, there's nothing to my knowledge saying that you can't simply fly between galaxies (there's no Barrier a la what the TOS Star Trek had ---that was a complete fabrication on Trek's part to my knowledge).

Yet, one assumption that keeps getting me is that you believe that the Reapers have the capabilty to perform such as actions, which ME1 didn't prove, infact it only provided evidence in the opposite direction, seeing as to how the Reapers needed the Citadel to actually enter the galaxy, or other they would be trapped, which the narrative never effetively challenges.

Modifié par Fixers0, 13 juin 2013 - 08:17 .

[GimmeDaGun]

Bleachrude wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Fixers0, being trapped in dark space doesn't actually make sense (there's nothing stopping anyone from simply travelling via standard FTL). There's also the fact that this isn't that big a distance.

Dark space is simply the space between galaxies. The distance between the Milky Way galaxy and the Large Magellanic Cloud (our nearest galactic neighbour) is ONLY 160,000 light years away.

Using the 15ly/day figure for REGULAR FTL by the races, this comes out to roughly 11k days or about 30 years (true, this is assuming non-stop no discharge travel). But that;s not exactly an insurmountable obstacle for an ancient race.

You seem to work  under a lot of assumptions here, all which have not been proven by the time of ME1 and some of them which have never been proven In the ME series at all. And i can't argue with your assumptions, lest I make such unbased statments as well.

The only assumption I made is that the reapers went to dark space inbetween the Milky way and our closest galactic neighbour (the large magellanic cloud).

Everything else is factual (the LMC IS only 160,000 light years away) or lore based (ME FTL via normal means is only 15 ly/day).

Again, there's nothing to my knowledge saying that you can't simply fly between galaxies (there's no Barrier a la what the TOS Star Trek had ---that was a complete fabrication on Trek's part to my knowledge).

One assumption that is not unreasonable IMO and given that Shepard et al treat the reapers as still coming, I think a valid assumption....

re: Characters with a bigger role.
The simple issue is that the cast is way too big...I have to admit, at the time I liked overall the huge amount of companions we had over 3 games, but look at the picture below...

http://images.euroga...0x-1/quality/91

That's a FREAKING lot of people to try and juggle and give decent TLC....I tend to think Smudboy tends to nitpick for nitpick's sake, but his charge that there are too many characters across the franchise, I find myself in agreement  with...

Even if we went to a third of that number, you're still looking at 6-7 companions which for many other RPGs that allow for companions is considered a more than fair number.

Yeah, that's ME2 for you. The whole idea behind that thing was to get a huge team of different types of characters together for one mission. The only thing they forgot is that there would be another game in the series which will have to end all the stories of all these potentially dead characters which people may get so attached to. In a couple of interviews the devs remarked this problem in a funny way: "what the hell we were thinking?". Well, yeah... that's how you write yourself into a ****load of work... and to a situation where you may ruin the day of some people by the way you implement their personal favorite - possibly dead - characters in the last chapter by trying not to make them feel irrelevant but also trying to make them disposable due to their possible deaths. 

And yeah, the trilogy has way too many characters, many disposable ones too. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 13 juin 2013 - 08:21 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Does Drew Karpyshyn count?

I honestly doubt Drew would have done any better. 

I don't get the love for him. He's proven to be just as bad as SuperMac and CHud at some things.

People love to delude themselves. Drew came up with the dark energy theme, which would have made the whole third game darker (by the ending they planned for that scenario). Also the whole logic behind that issue would raise a lot more questions: fighting against dark energy by turning each organic civilization into space cyborgs which use dark energy... and by creating huge dark energy relays in order to prevent civilizations to use dark energy by encouraging them to use it... eeerrr... no wonder they scrapped that idea. 

Also it was Drew who wrote the whole trilogy into a corner by ME1's reaper lore: their numbers are great, they outmach the whole galacitc community in technological advancement, knowledge, experience, firepower etc. etc.. Also they hold the whole galaxy in their hands: the relay system is theirs and the Citadel also... they could take it in a whim decapitating the galactic community and shut down the relays, isolating each system from the other, paralysing the whole galaxy: instant victory (Shep would strand in one of the systems). And the ending of ME1 promised that these creatures would come, no matter what, so there was no way to backtrack the plot of the sequels from the imminent reaper invasion. The guys (Mac and co.) who inherited the helm from him had to retcon a few things in order to make the whole trilogy work: the whole idea of the Crucible, making the reapers not to take the Citadel without any explaination. These things caused a few problems in the writing of ME3. This is all due to the heritage of Drew. 

It's easy to say that Drew is such a genious out of nostalgie, but he's not better than the rest of the guys, if you think about his writing in ME1 and ME2 for more than a minute. Also ME1 has its own share of logical flaws and derps (I'm talking about the main plot). 

So people may hate Mac for what he has done with ME3, but if it was Drew who took the helm, now everybody would hate him instead of Mac, I'd stake my life on it. 

I'm talking about how Drew did a craptastic job with his Revan novels.

His Bane novels aren't that good either.

[Bleachrude]

Wayning_Star wrote...

never agree with smudboy, the kids a troll..

True, but even a broken clock is right once a day. (twice if it's an old-fashioned analog one).

I love the fact that across the trilogy we had so many characters (including ones most fans hate like Jacob) since in a lot of ways, the companions made the ME-verse as interesting as it was and there was a pair of compaions for pretty much every type of Shepard.

Hell, I'd argue that ME missed one possible compaion - a batarian. I honestly was expecting one but we never got one across the entire trilogy.

But that's a lot of people to write for especially given that at time of ME3, it was possible for all but 5 of those compaions to be dead.