63 réponses à ce sujet

[eyesheild21]

If you listen to what morrigan is saying at the end of witch hunt about flemeth she wasn't looking for immortality she's not a blood mage, abomination, she is not even human. Then she goes on to talk about change and how some fight it but some need it and change can set them free. What if what flemeth is looking for is piece she's lived long enough and is just tired and wants to die but the only thing powerful enough to kill her is the child of morrigan and the warden with the soul of the old god.

[Fredward]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not smart enough to avoid getting killed by The Warden if he fights her to protect Morrigan.

But... she did avoid getting killed. She even tricked the Warden and her daughter into thinking she was dead. Well my Warden anyway. Morrigan seemed unconvinced. 

Flemeth did die if The Warden killed her. That's the point behind the amulet. Also, The Warden and Morrigan knew she could come back; Morrigan mentions it as soon as you tell her you killed Flemeth.

It's pedantic but IMO she didn't die unless she's , yah know, dead. She clearly planned for a potential attack by the Warden, she was never in any actual danger. Also my Warden didn't really believe Morrigan when she talked about Flemeth coming back, she chalked it up to paranoia. But that's headcanon.

[Frocharocha]

Ultimashade wrote...

Flemeth is the very definition of grey. Since we don't know her motives, that's how she's being portrayed. She's also shown as some kind of chess master, however, considering what she does every game. She rescues you when your life is on the line...let's look at it this way. She saved you and not somebody else because she knows that you'll be useful to her. Useful in a way that furthers her goals, whether for good or for ill. Even so, you can't dispute that she hasn't been exceedingly nice to you as Foopydoopydoo pointed out when she could let you die or snuff out your life. So...she's a chess master, but I doubt she wants to destroy the world.

She's a great part in all lof this. Just see:

If Flemeth haven't saved The Warden and Hawke nothing of this would have happend, The Darkspawn would have won and the Mages and  Templar conflict would never happen . She has planned something for all this time and it's not good.

My bet is that Flemeth wanted to connect booth worlds (Fade and Earth) to a new age of Magicc. Afterall she's an agent of destiny.

Modifié par Frocharocha, 13 juin 2013 - 10:14 .

[GenericEnemy]

Flemeth is voiced by Kate Mulgrew

of course shes evil

[LobselVith8]

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not smart enough to avoid getting killed by The Warden if he fights her to protect Morrigan.

She did though.

The need for the amulet would suggest otherwise.

Mr.House wrote...

Even Morrigan knew Flemeth was not truly dead and you where not protecting morrigan. Morrigan used you for her own gain and created some hogwash story so you could rise to defend her. 

You have anything to support that fan fiction you're espousing as truth?

You mean the fact that Flemeth outright tells you, you're being mislead or the fact that the exsistance of Yavana(who is mentioned by Zev in DAO, just not by name) outright debunks what Morrigan told you and the deal Marric made with Flemeth during the war with Orlais. I never knew fan fiction ment taking stuff the writers gave us.

You mean Flemeth made a claim when she tried to convince The Warden not to fight her that can't be proven, one way or another, at this point in time?

And the existance of Yavana doesn't disprove what Morrigan claimed, since we don't have all the facts, and Yavana eluded to something that Morrigan didn't wish to transpire in the vaguest of terms.

I never knew pretending as though Flemeth was speaking the absolute truth, and ignoring that you don't actually have all the facts, wasn't fan fiction.

Mr.House wrote...

Also before you pull the "Silent Grove is not canon!" card, yes the events are not canon if you did not make Alistair king, that however does not make Yavana non canon because the events around her happen without player choices and happen before the games. So if you say she is not canon, then Stolen Throne and The Calling are also not canon. Because of Yavana, Morrigan is proven to be false.

Pretending as though Flemeth speaks the absolute truth and vilifying Morrigan as though your opinion is fact is you espousing your own personal fan fiction as canon.

Mr.House wrote...

Also the amulet DOES prove she is smarter because she made sure if the Warden did attack her and manage to win(Flemeth is not even at her full power in that fight for crying outloud) she still planned a way to survive, and even if the amulet did not go to plan, Flemeth outright imp;lies she had other plans too. Flemeth is smarter then your characters.

Flemeth managed to die when The Warden killed her, and a part of her managed to reconstitute herself because it was sealed in the amulet beforehand; that doesn't make her smarter than The Warden since Morrigan outright tells The Warden as soon as the quest is concluded that Flemeth is likely going to come back from the dead. It's not as though she has anyone convinced otherwise.

[Angrywolves]

It's silly that some players want to permanently kill Flemeth. Gaider won't allow it .
I think we'll see her, she'll issue some kind of warning then leave until DA4.

[LobselVith8]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not smart enough to avoid getting killed by The Warden if he fights her to protect Morrigan.

But... she did avoid getting killed. She even tricked the Warden and her daughter into thinking she was dead. Well my Warden anyway. Morrigan seemed unconvinced. 

Flemeth did die if The Warden killed her. That's the point behind the amulet. Also, The Warden and Morrigan knew she could come back; Morrigan mentions it as soon as you tell her you killed Flemeth.

It's pedantic but IMO she didn't die unless she's , yah know, dead. She clearly planned for a potential attack by the Warden, she was never in any actual danger. Also my Warden didn't really believe Morrigan when she talked about Flemeth coming back, she chalked it up to paranoia. But that's headcanon.

Flemeth died when The Warden killed her, but she had a portion of her existance placed in the amulet, so I don't see how she didn't die when The Warden killed her. The amulet is how Flemeth ultimately cheated death, but that doesn't mean she didn't die. Flemeth wouldn't have required the amulet if she didn't die in the first place, since she wouldn't have needed her essence stored away in an amulet far away from Ferelden.

As for why The Warden killed Flemeth, I imagine everyone has a different reason (if they chose to walk down that particular path). My Surana Warden trusted Morrigan, for instance.

[BlueMagitek]

Well your Surana Warden was never the sharpest Jowan in the Circle.

Regardless, I imagine that Flemeth will be pulling *some* strings in the story, but I don't believe she'll be the main force behind it. She seems to be more of the "nail" character, so to speak.

[Ash Wind]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not smart enough to avoid getting killed by The Warden if he fights her to protect Morrigan.

Half-right, Lob. She had already guessed that she would be fought and so managed to find a way to circumvent the permanency of death before the Warden even came to her hut (stuff you bring up)

She then tried to get the Warden to change his course, but ultimately she didn't care. She actually welcomed it, sort of. And while she did die by your hand, that doesn't negate how smart she is. Because she accounted for the possibility.

That does make her smarter then the Warden and Hawke, though it's not hard to be smarter then Hawke.

Well... I can agree and disagree with parts of that statement.

While Flemeth certainly is crafty, Morrigan tells you straight out when making the request, she highly doubts the Warden will actually be killing her (... but it will take some time for her to recover her power, when ever Hawke gets around to releasing her) so its not like Flemeth surviving the encounter with the Warden is a great surprise, or that she outsmarted Morrigan and the Warden.

Though, on a number of my play-throughs, I made the deal with Flemeth... up until that point, she had done little more than... in her own way... assist the Warden... saving the treaties... giving him or her the treaties... saving them and Alistair from the tower.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 14 juin 2013 - 01:09 .

[dragondreamer]

Ash Wind wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not smart enough to avoid getting killed by The Warden if he fights her to protect Morrigan.

Half-right, Lob. She had already guessed that she would be fought and so managed to find a way to circumvent the permanency of death before the Warden even came to her hut (stuff you bring up)

She then tried to get the Warden to change his course, but ultimately she didn't care. She actually welcomed it, sort of. And while she did die by your hand, that doesn't negate how smart she is. Because she accounted for the possibility.

That does make her smarter then the Warden and Hawke, though it's not hard to be smarter then Hawke.

Well... I can agree and disagree with parts of that statement.

While Flemeth certainly is crafty, Morrigan tells you straight out when making the request, she highly doubts the Warden will actually be killing her (... but it will take some time for her to recover her power, when ever Hawke gets around to releasing her) so its not like Flemeth surviving the encounter with the Warden is a great surprise, or that she outsmarted Morrigan and the Warden.

Though, on a number of my play-throughs, I made the deal with Flemeth... up until that point, she had done little more than... in her own way... assist the Warden... saving the treaties... giving him or her the treaties... saving them and Alistair from the tower.

Yeah, pretty much this.  My Warden considered Morrigan his friend, but he didn't entirely trust her.  And he didn't feel right killing the old lady who saved his life.  So he took the deal and gave Morrigan the book, hoping that would be enough.  Morrigan had already told him that death wouldn't be enough to stop Flemeth for good, so he supposed Morrigan wouldn't be taken completely off-guard.

As for DA:I, the trailer gave me the impression that this time Morrigan may be using the Inquisitor as her pawn like Flemeth used the Warden and Hawke.  Flemeth is almost certainly around somewhere though.

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well your Surana Warden was never the sharpest Jowan in the Circle.

You're welcome to keep your asinine remarks to yourself.

[Medhia Nox]

I know it's "Dragon Age" - but the Dragon on the helmet... I dunno, it made me think that maybe it's an indication that Flemeth has been causing all of this for some purpose.

It harkens back to her comments in DA:O about the petty squabbles of men when there are real troubles to consider.

I'll only serve the hag if she stops being purposefully obtuse though.

[Nightdragon8]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not smart enough to avoid getting killed by The Warden if he fights her to protect Morrigan.

She did though.

The need for the amulet would suggest otherwise.

Mr.House wrote...

Even Morrigan knew Flemeth was not truly dead and you where not protecting morrigan. Morrigan used you for her own gain and created some hogwash story so you could rise to defend her. 

You have anything to support that fan fiction you're espousing as truth?

Morrigan says so in DA:O if im not mistaken...  as for if Flemeth was 'really' going to kill Morrigan and take over her body, Flemeth herself said, Morrigan would say whatever she could to get her way. So in all honesty, its hard to say what they would have done.

So it isn't fan fiction.

its speculation, and deduction. Wither he is right or not, only time will tell.

Tho I get the feeling if they where to end the series, they would make her the ending boss just because.

[Amycus89]

Am I the only one who wonders what happens if you DID NOT kill Flemeth?, I mean, doesn't that mean there are TWO of her now, existing at the same time?

...Would be interesting if they didn't trust eachother and decided to try and kill their counterpart. I mean, the Flemeth that Hawke resurrected is the same Flemeth that the Warden spoke with when Morrigan decided to follow you. The OTHER Flemeth (assuming that your warden didn't kill her), kept living for another year on her own, until Hawke finally decided to use that amulet. So even if they are both Flemeth, they are not really 100 % identical. One of them is a year older than the other.

Modifié par Amycus89, 14 juin 2013 - 09:43 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Amycus89 wrote...

Am I the only one who wonders what happens if you DID NOT kill Flemeth?, I mean, doesn't that mean there are TWO of her now, existing at the same time?

...Would be interesting if they didn't trust eachother and decided to try and kill their counterpart. I mean, the Flemeth that Hawke resurrected is the same Flemeth that the Warden spoke with when Morrigan decided to follow you. The OTHER Flemeth (assuming that your warden didn't kill her), kept living for another year on her own, until Hawke finally decided to use that amulet. So even if they are both Flemeth, they are not really 100 % identical. One of them is a year older than the other.

I'm not sure that there are two Flemeths walking around (unless you hearken to the theory that Morrigan is actually a piece or avatar of Flemeth in some capacity). I'm thinking that a lot of the mystery centers around where the amulet had to be taken to restore/resurrect/reform Asha'Bellanar. So... we have the amulet removed from the Wilds and taken across the water to Kirkwall, to Sundermount, and to an altar to Mythal. Though some "funeral" rite, we see Flemeth emerge.

It could be that while the amulet had a piece of her in it, her essence or what not, the altar acted as a sort of summoning or focusing tool, drawing all of the ethereal bits and fragments of the Witch to that one place of power so that they could take form again. Perhaps it's just as likely that there is the shell of an old woman lying somewhere in the Kocari Wilds because the Sundermount ritual called the spirit of Flemeth to join with the physical amulet.

Of course, every manifestation that we have seen of Flemeth thus far, in various locations, could just be a variety of temporary entities. Maybe after noteworthy interactions (with the Warden and with Hawke), the physical forms serve their purpose, the spirit leaves, and the fleshy bits turn to sparkly dust and sand. 

Although, a Flemeth vs Flemeth face-off amuses me greatly. The insults they would fling at one another alone would be well worth the price of admission.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Although, a Flemeth vs Flemeth face-off amuses me greatly. The insults they would fling at one another alone would be well worth the price of admission.

That would be amusing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Well your Surana Warden was never the sharpest Jowan in the Circle.

:lol::lol::lol:

[Amycus89]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Am I the only one who wonders what happens if you DID NOT kill Flemeth?, I mean, doesn't that mean there are TWO of her now, existing at the same time?

...Would be interesting if they didn't trust eachother and decided to try and kill their counterpart. I mean, the Flemeth that Hawke resurrected is the same Flemeth that the Warden spoke with when Morrigan decided to follow you. The OTHER Flemeth (assuming that your warden didn't kill her), kept living for another year on her own, until Hawke finally decided to use that amulet. So even if they are both Flemeth, they are not really 100 % identical. One of them is a year older than the other.

I'm not sure that there are two Flemeths walking around (unless you hearken to the theory that Morrigan is actually a piece or avatar of Flemeth in some capacity). I'm thinking that a lot of the mystery centers around where the amulet had to be taken to restore/resurrect/reform Asha'Bellanar. So... we have the amulet removed from the Wilds and taken across the water to Kirkwall, to Sundermount, and to an altar to Mythal. Though some "funeral" rite, we see Flemeth emerge.

It could be that while the amulet had a piece of her in it, her essence or what not, the altar acted as a sort of summoning or focusing tool, drawing all of the ethereal bits and fragments of the Witch to that one place of power so that they could take form again. Perhaps it's just as likely that there is the shell of an old woman lying somewhere in the Kocari Wilds because the Sundermount ritual called the spirit of Flemeth to join with the physical amulet.

SNIP

She said, to quote "Must I be in only one place?" When Hawke asks if it's all some kind of illusion, which makes me think that she "cloned" herself, or something close to it. If the warden killed her, then yes, she WAS dead, with no other Flemeth existing - until Hawke resurrected/recreated her one year later. But assuming that the warden did NOT kill her, then Hawke still "recreates" her regardless, meaning that we suddenly have two of them. And judging from her conversation, she don't have any memories of what happened  to "her" after she helped Hawke escape to Kirkwall - She ASSUMES that Morrigan and the warden had her killed, but she doesn't know for sure.

The question is if Bioware would bother letting this affect DA3 through a save import though, since that would lock out everyone who didn't play the previous games from content that is supposedly in the game. I have already touched on this subject in an older thread, but I feel this is the reason why the save imports feel like such wasted potential. If they had an option like importing "randomized" save imports, it might have been economically resonable to make large changes like this. Imagine a game where each playthrough will be different,even when you try to follow the same choices a sbefore, because the WORLD you play is slightly different each time.

Sorry for going slightly off topic, it's just situations like these that makes me wish they used the save imports to their full potential, instead of just affecting a few cameos.

[LobselVith8]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Morrigan says so in DA:O if im not mistaken...  as for if Flemeth was 'really' going to kill Morrigan and take over her body, Flemeth herself said, Morrigan would say whatever she could to get her way. So in all honesty, its hard to say what they would have done.

So it isn't fan fiction.

its speculation, and deduction. Wither he is right or not, only time will tell.

Morrigan was supposed to leave the group if you didn't kill Flemeth, and didn't waiver in her statement about Flemeth. To say one has speculation about the matter is one thing, but to act as though one's opinion on the matter is indisputable fact (and trying to tear down another person who doesn't share that opinion) is an attempt to substitute one's personal conjecture on the matter as fact.

Nightdragon8 wrote...
Tho I get the feeling if they where to end the series, they would make her the ending boss just because.

I don't get that feeling at all.

[LoonySpectre]

I think that the moment Hawke and Merrill resurrect the "new" Flemeth, the "old" Flemeth's body (if still alive) disintegrates or something.
Or... there's a frightening possibility that the sudden reappearance of dragons (including High Dragons) is Flemeth's doing - she had been secretly using unwitting apostate mages to perform obscure rituals in ancient places of power to create multiple imperfect non-sentient copies of herself

[Nashimura]

I would like Flemeth to appear as a young sexy mage who is romancable...then "Surprise!" Its Flemeth... Maybe she is Morrigan now... or another daughter.

I like the idea... Kind of, i wouldnt like it... from me the character in the game, just like how i did not like Zevrans betrayal or going against Alistair - but as the player...i would love the twist.

[Okamiden556]

Smarter than the Warden or not, That draconic wench will be dispatched by mine own hand.

[Angrywolves]

not going to happen kiddo.

[Merc Mama]

MWImexico wrote...

I think that this time it will be rather Morrigan who will hold this kind of role, save the protagonist, give him some advices and a pat on the shoulder.

Otherwise, apart from that, is it possible that the Inquisitor is also one of the children of Flemeth? It is unlikely, but I admit that the thought has crossed my mind.

That would be a twist.. Though I'm beginning to wonder if Inquistor will be Morrigan's child.. And she just hasn't aged.. 

[Merc Mama]

Okamiden556 wrote...

Smarter than the Warden or not, That draconic wench will be dispatched by mine own hand.

Gunna kill her again!