173 réponses à ce sujet

[sandalisthemaker]

LoonySpectre wrote...

Rabillion wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I would rather have a playersexual character than be forced to watch homosexual content if i don´t want to.

So do you also have problems with a fem-Hawke making out with Isabela? If the answer is no then you're nothing short of being a hypocrite.

FemHawke/Isabela thing is not forced. Unlike, for instance, Anders saying Karl is his lover if you play a MHawke who's straight as an arrow, but goes out of his way to help all his squadmates.

Sigh. The "being shoved in my face" argument.
Anyway, MaleHawke/Anders isn't forced either. Anders is simply telling you he had a relationship with Karl, just like how Isabela makes no secret about being with women.

[Thetford]

Maclimes wrote...

"I wanted to romance Cornelius Crumplebottom, but I'm a lady, and he only likes dudes! Not fair! I don't want any of the other 9 potential romances! I wanted THAT one!"

Is Cornelius more open than Agnes then?

[Battlebloodmage]

As far as gay characters go, I like Kaidan a lot more. I don't mind bisexuality because it gives us more options of who we want instead of being stuck with one person. If there are sexual orientations in the game, all I ask is that we have choices in the matter (with Cullen as the bisexual one, but yeah, that's just my selfish wish ). Anyway, I think we should put more trust in Mr. Gaider. He has a very strong stand on fairness in general.  

[LoonySpectre]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

LoonySpectre wrote...

Rabillion wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I would rather have a playersexual character than be forced to watch homosexual content if i don´t want to.

So do you also have problems with a fem-Hawke making out with Isabela? If the answer is no then you're nothing short of being a hypocrite.

FemHawke/Isabela thing is not forced. Unlike, for instance, Anders saying Karl is his lover if you play a MHawke who's straight as an arrow, but goes out of his way to help all his squadmates.

Sigh. The "being shoved in my face" argument.
Anyway, MaleHawke/Anders isn't forced either. Anders is simply telling you he had a relationship with Karl, just like how Isabela makes no secret about being with women.

I think that the "forced homosexual content" in the original message was the very fact that your companion, almost completely at random, tells your male Hawke that he's gay (and he doesn't to the female Hawke). Anders' sexuality is completely plot-irrelevant save for the fact it makes him romanceable by MHawke, but it's a mandatory piece of information if you do all your companions' quests.

[IanPolaris]

Maclimes wrote...

David Gaider has pretty much confirmed that all romance options in DA3 will be available to either gender. But there can always be NPCs who are more limited in their sexuality (such as Wade and Herren).

UUuugh!  They are going to make the major love interests hero-sexual again?  I'm sorry but I consider that sheer lazyness as well as doing both hetro and ****** sexual relationships (which should be distinct IMO) a gross disservice.

-Polaris

[sandalisthemaker]

LoonySpectre wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

LoonySpectre wrote...

Rabillion wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I would rather have a playersexual character than be forced to watch homosexual content if i don´t want to.

So do you also have problems with a fem-Hawke making out with Isabela? If the answer is no then you're nothing short of being a hypocrite.

FemHawke/Isabela thing is not forced. Unlike, for instance, Anders saying Karl is his lover if you play a MHawke who's straight as an arrow, but goes out of his way to help all his squadmates.

Sigh. The "being shoved in my face" argument.
Anyway, MaleHawke/Anders isn't forced either. Anders is simply telling you he had a relationship with Karl, just like how Isabela makes no secret about being with women.

I think that the "forced homosexual content" in the original message was the very fact that your companion, almost completely at random, tells your male Hawke that he's gay (and he doesn't to the female Hawke). Anders' sexuality is completely plot-irrelevant save for the fact it makes him romanceable by MHawke, but it's a mandatory piece of information if you do all your companions' quests.

So what?

[LoonySpectre]

I don't know. I don't mind it, but the original poster seems to do.

[IceHawk-181]

Honestly, I liked the fact that Morrigan was not interested in FemWarden and that Alistair was not looking to go skinny-dipping with MaleWarden. Jack had no interest in FemShep and Garrus had no interest in MaleShep.

I significantly preferred the manner in which DA:O handled this issue; Heterosexual characters (2), Homosexual Characters (2), and Bisexual (2) characters. Everyone gets 4-LIs to choose from and 2-supporting characters that manage not to have steamy dreams of my PC-character at night.

This is a fantasy game about magic and dragons not an episode of the Love Connection.

[Mykel54]

LoonySpectre wrote...

Rabillion wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I would rather have a playersexual character than be forced to watch homosexual content if i don´t want to.

So do you also have problems with a fem-Hawke making out with Isabela? If the answer is no then you're nothing short of being a hypocrite.

FemHawke/Isabela thing is not forced. Unlike, for instance, Anders saying Karl is his lover if you play a MHawke who's straight as an arrow, but goes out of his way to help all his squadmates.

You are spot on. The only moment when i felt annoyed with Isabela is when she said after her initial mission "if you are looking for some company", and then femhawke gets a big smirk on her face, thus bioware was controling my character by making her lesbian for a few seconds (small thing, compared to malehawke). Otherwise, Isabela is consistent from DAO, where she would sleep with anyone, no matter the gender. It makes sense for her to flirt with femhawke, considering that she is still the same character.

Anders is much worse because in awakening it was obvious that he was straight, and if you play malehawke his past not only suddenly changes (Karl is now a lover), but also he beings flirting out of the blue with a malehawke who is friendly with him and tries to help with his issues.

Modifié par Mykel54, 13 juin 2013 - 06:58 .

[sandalisthemaker]

IanPolaris wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

David Gaider has pretty much confirmed that all romance options in DA3 will be available to either gender. But there can always be NPCs who are more limited in their sexuality (such as Wade and Herren).

UUuugh!  They are going to make the major love interests hero-sexual again?  I'm sorry but I consider that sheer lazyness as well as doing both hetro and ****** sexual relationships (which should be distinct IMO) a gross disservice.

-Polaris

I can't speak for all gay guys, but as a gay guy, I personally do not feel that Bioware is doing homosexual relationships a "gross disservice."
Quite the opposite.
David has said so himself, that fairness and equality in regards to the romances trumps anyones sense of reality-breaking or immersion-breaking.  
It's not laziness, its inclusiveness.

[IanPolaris]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I can't speak for all gay guys, but as a gay guy, I personally do not feel that Bioware is doing homosexual relationships a "gross disservice."
Quite the opposite.
David has said so himself, that fairness and equality in regards to the romances trumps anyones sense of reality-breaking or immersion-breaking.  
It's not laziness, its inclusiveness.

I disagree.  I find player-sexuality to be a significant minus especially since in many cases it's a simple substitution of the gender pronoun, and that does (IMHO) does the different sexual orientations a gross disservice.  I dislike the notion of sacrificing good background and good game play on the alter of "fairness" (or shall I simply be blunt and call it political correctness).

I didn't see too many people up in arms about Samantha and Steve being exclusive ******-sexual relationships.

-Polaris

[Tinxa]

Mykel54 wrote...


You are spot on. The only moment when i felt annoyed with Isabela is when she said after her initial mission "if you are looking for some company", and then femhawke gets a big smirk on her face, thus bioware was controling my character by making her lesbian for a few seconds (small thing, compared to malehawke). Otherwise, Isabela is consistent from DAO, where she would sleep with anyone, no matter the gender. It makes sense for her to flirt with femhawke, considering that she is still the same character.

I never saw that smirk that way. I always imagined femHawke going "Oh Isabela, you and your antics" with that smile.

[Battlebloodmage]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Honestly, I liked the fact that Morrigan was not interested in FemWarden and that Alistair was not looking to go skinny-dipping with MaleWarden. Jack had no interest in FemShep and Garrus had no interest in MaleShep.

I significantly preferred the manner in which DA:O handled this issue; Heterosexual characters (2), Homosexual Characters (2), and Bisexual (2) characters. Everyone gets 4-LIs to choose from and 2-supporting characters that manage not to have steamy dreams of my PC-character at night.

This is a fantasy game about magic and dragons not an episode of the Love Connection.

There is only 1 bisexual Li for each gender, meaning that only 1 homosexual LI while there are 2 straight LIs. Are you talking about how you want the next game to have? In his blog, Mr. Gaider did say something to the effect of it wouldn't be out of place if Alistair or Morrigan prefer the same gender, it would just be a matter of a bit of rewriting. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Mykel54 wrote...

Anders is much worse because in awakening it was obvious that he was straight, and if you play malehawke his past not only suddenly changes (Karl is now a lover), but also he beings flirting out of the blue with a malehawke who is friendly with him and tries to help with his issues.

In one of the interviews, Gaider recounts another team member telling him that Anders literally looked gay. So, as for it being obvious Anders is straight...

[IceHawk-181]

And I found the concept of consoling Steve over the tragic death of his husband as a stepping stone for MaleShep to sleep with him awkward and inappropriate...

...so to each their own I guess.

(BTW, making all LI's Hero-Sexual is not "inclusiveness," its lazy writing. DA:O was inclusive without having Alistair hitting on MaleWarden...)

[ElitePinecone]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm hoping playersexuals have different content based on gender rather than a swap of he/she.

I guess it's a matter of resources and priorities - one could argue that if there's enough unique lines and conversations for each PC gender of a playersexual romance, they might as well have just spun it off into something else unique. As in, there's a point at which different content itself becomes hard to justify from the perspective of trying to save resources. 

I do agree though, it's definitely a plus when the LI does actually acknowledge the player's gender beyond pronouns (as difficult as that is to do well with a blank slate character like Hawke/Shepard, and without essentialising gender), Particularly in the context of DA, where gender carries much more impact for certain types of people - races like elves or dwarves, and human nobles view gender and gender responsibilities in a much different way to what was portrayed in Mass Effect. 

(Again, it's a question of resources and detail, but I was always confused that the Couslands in the prologue weren't more pushy about a Human Noble origin character's marriage - especially since we had the opportunity to sleep with a same-gendered character)

[IanPolaris]

Tinxa wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...


You are spot on. The only moment when i felt annoyed with Isabela is when she said after her initial mission "if you are looking for some company", and then femhawke gets a big smirk on her face, thus bioware was controling my character by making her lesbian for a few seconds (small thing, compared to malehawke). Otherwise, Isabela is consistent from DAO, where she would sleep with anyone, no matter the gender. It makes sense for her to flirt with femhawke, considering that she is still the same character.

I never saw that smirk that way. I always imagined femHawke going "Oh Isabela, you and your antics" with that smile.

I didn't have a problem with it either.  Isabella has been bi-sexual from the start, and very openly so.  Thus when I kvetch about hero-sexuality, I don't include Isabella since being bi-sexual (not hero-sexual) really is a part of her character (and if Hawke doesn't romance her, Isabella does not sleep alone regardless...Fenris you lucky dog....)

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 13 juin 2013 - 07:04 .

[Battlebloodmage]

IanPolaris wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I can't speak for all gay guys, but as a gay guy, I personally do not feel that Bioware is doing homosexual relationships a "gross disservice."
Quite the opposite.
David has said so himself, that fairness and equality in regards to the romances trumps anyones sense of reality-breaking or immersion-breaking.  
It's not laziness, its inclusiveness.

I disagree.  I find player-sexuality to be a significant minus especially since in many cases it's a simple substitution of the gender pronoun, and that does (IMHO) does the different sexual orientations a gross disservice.  I dislike the notion of sacrificing good background and good game play on the alter of "fairness" (or shall I simply be blunt and call it political correctness).

I didn't see too many people up in arms about Samantha and Steve being exclusive ******-sexual relationships.

-Polaris

What's the difference between how DA handle herosexuality with the way other games like Skyrim and Dragon's Dogma handle herosexuality? You don't see as much complain on those games as you do on Dragon's Age. Do you think DA2 would have been better if Anders and Isabela are straight (Similar to how Jack sleeps with women but prefer men) Fenris and Merrill are gay? 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 juin 2013 - 07:07 .

[IceHawk-181]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Honestly, I liked the fact that Morrigan was not interested in FemWarden and that Alistair was not looking to go skinny-dipping with MaleWarden. Jack had no interest in FemShep and Garrus had no interest in MaleShep.

I significantly preferred the manner in which DA:O handled this issue; Heterosexual characters (2), Homosexual Characters (2), and Bisexual (2) characters. Everyone gets 4-LIs to choose from and 2-supporting characters that manage not to have steamy dreams of my PC-character at night.

This is a fantasy game about magic and dragons not an episode of the Love Connection.

There is only 1 bisexual Li for each gender, meaning that only 1 homosexual LI while there are 2 straight LIs. Are you talking about how you want the next game to have? In his blog, Mr. Gaider did say something to the effect of it wouldn't be out of place if Alistair or Morrigan prefer the same gender, it would just be a matter of a bit of rewriting. 

That is more my hope for DA:I; I would prefer a hefty cast of supporting characters (like DA:O or ME2) who are well defined individuals that do not simply bend to the desires of the PC.
 
And to the concept of "re-writing" Morrigan or Alistair to suddenly be Bi-Sexual...What? Is it offensive to have hetero-sexual characters now?

[ElitePinecone]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

(BTW, making all LI's Hero-Sexual is not "inclusiveness," its lazy writing. 

This is simply not true. You can repeat that a thousand times and it doesn't change that the motivation for having all love interests open to both genders of player-character is so that people can romance who they like, and to give equal options for opposite-sex and same-sex romance. 

You might not consider it inclusive - and you might not even value inclusiveness - but that's the reason they're doing it. Laziness has nothing to do with it, unless you'd prefer the game divert resources away from other areas to focus on romance dialogue. 

[sandalisthemaker]

IanPolaris wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I can't speak for all gay guys, but as a gay guy, I personally do not feel that Bioware is doing homosexual relationships a "gross disservice."
Quite the opposite.
David has said so himself, that fairness and equality in regards to the romances trumps anyones sense of reality-breaking or immersion-breaking.  
It's not laziness, its inclusiveness.

I disagree.  I find player-sexuality to be a significant minus especially since in many cases it's a simple substitution of the gender pronoun, and that does (IMHO) does the different sexual orientations a gross disservice.  I dislike the notion of sacrificing good background and good game play on the alter of "fairness" (or shall I simply be blunt and call it political correctness).

I didn't see too many people up in arms about Samantha and Steve being exclusive ******-sexual relationships.

-Polaris

Quite frankly, I take what I can get at this point. Bioware is the only deleloper out there that has the balls to include meaningful homosexual content in their games.  For that I am immensely greatful and pleased with what they offer to non-straight players.  There is no disservice being made. Not for gays, anyway.
Hopefully, in the future, there will be more games out there that follow in their footsteps. 

[IanPolaris]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

What's the difference between how DA handle herosexuality with the way other games like Skyrim and Dragon's Dogma handle herosexuality? You don't see as much complain on those games as you do on Dragon's Age.

I don't know about Dragon's Dogma, but I can speak for Skyrim.  Skyrim handles this completely differently.  LI's in Skyrium are NOT herosexual.  They prefer men, women, or both.  Also Skyrium tends to be very sketchy at best when handling romance (i.e. talk, get a marriage quest, buy a funny amulet, get married, and then have the S.O. make you an occassional mean).

So Skyrim is not a good example of hero-sexual coding, and Skyrim doesn't bother with interesting romances anyway.

-Polaris

[Battlebloodmage]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Honestly, I liked the fact that Morrigan was not interested in FemWarden and that Alistair was not looking to go skinny-dipping with MaleWarden. Jack had no interest in FemShep and Garrus had no interest in MaleShep.

I significantly preferred the manner in which DA:O handled this issue; Heterosexual characters (2), Homosexual Characters (2), and Bisexual (2) characters. Everyone gets 4-LIs to choose from and 2-supporting characters that manage not to have steamy dreams of my PC-character at night.

This is a fantasy game about magic and dragons not an episode of the Love Connection.

There is only 1 bisexual Li for each gender, meaning that only 1 homosexual LI while there are 2 straight LIs. Are you talking about how you want the next game to have? In his blog, Mr. Gaider did say something to the effect of it wouldn't be out of place if Alistair or Morrigan prefer the same gender, it would just be a matter of a bit of rewriting. 

That is more my hope for DA:I; I would prefer a hefty cast of supporting characters (like DA:O or ME2) who are well defined individuals that do not simply bend to the desires of the PC.
 
And to the concept of "re-writing" Morrigan or Alistair to suddenly be Bi-Sexual...What? Is it offensive to have hetero-sexual characters now?

It's more too the effect of how people complain to him about how it's out of character for them to be gay. I think it's just his point of how being gay has nothing to do with someone's personality. It doesn't mean that it's wrong to be gay or straight.

[wright1978]

Personally i can compartmentalise my universes. The sexuality of a companion in one playthrough being different is no different to me than all of the details of the protaganist i'm roleplaying being different. In a world of limited resources i'd prefer the element of choice this system provides rather than fixed companion sexuality with no choice or negligent resources per choice.