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Why does everyone hate Ashley?


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#226
Nightwriter

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I don't hate her.  I have better things to do with my time than heap hatred on fictitious characters (such as hanging around these forums when I should be working!)

The #1 thing I see most people list as the reason they hate her is because they think she is racist because she mistrusts other species.  Strangely enough, most of the alien characters do not get held to this same standard.

Probably because Ashley is the only one who actually brings race based concerns to Shepard, meaning the player feels more confronted with her biases. If Garrus and Wrex say anything about race it's usually in passing. Neither of them actually approach you with problems about other squadmates. To be fair though, the SR1 wasn't a turian or krogan ship, so they weren't exactly in the same position as Ashley.

I don't think Garrus and Wrex ever say anything as bald as "I'm no fan of aliens" either. Or at least, if they did, they probably didn't say it during a scene where they were rejecting and alienating the player.

#227
Iakus

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That reminds me, I never did get that Samaritan liver recipe from Wrex...

#228
MassivelyEffective0730

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Nightwriter wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I don't hate her.  I have better things to do with my time than heap hatred on fictitious characters (such as hanging around these forums when I should be working!)

The #1 thing I see most people list as the reason they hate her is because they think she is racist because she mistrusts other species.  Strangely enough, most of the alien characters do not get held to this same standard.

Probably because Ashley is the only one who actually brings race based concerns to Shepard, meaning the player feels more confronted with her biases. If Garrus and Wrex say anything about race it's usually in passing. Neither of them actually approach you with problems about other squadmates. To be fair though, the SR1 wasn't a turian or krogan ship, so they weren't exactly in the same position as Ashley.

I don't think Garrus and Wrex ever say anything as bald as "I'm no fan of aliens" either. Or at least, if they did, they probably didn't say it during a scene where they were rejecting and alienating the player.


I would like to add that that does go along with Ashley's religious beliefs as well. She confronts you with her beliefs and asks a direct opinion of them.

#229
Ryzaki

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She's aggravating, refuses to admit she was wrong, has a chip on her shoulder the side of TIM's ego and all around unpleasant to me.

That's why I dislike her. Her bullheadness doesn't do her any favors either.

My Sheps are atheists and they really don't care that she's Christian. It's that ****** "How can you look outside and not believe in something?" that resulted in them just thinking "...is she serious?" 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 juin 2013 - 06:18 .


#230
Ryzaki

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conjmk wrote...

Modius Prime wrote...

What does Kaidan say if you never visit him in the hospital and shoot him?


I think he just says the same thing. Kaidan doesn't get nearly as pissy.


I don't think so. In my rendedouche to the max game he simply said something about it being better than shooting the wrong man.

I heard he might compare Shep to Saren but I never got that.

#231
remydat

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Ash was my love interest in one of my playthroughs in ME1. Then I die, she moves on and then when I return chic spends the whole of ME2 not trusting me and refuses to help while human colonies are being attacked by the Reapers. Then in ME3, when the Reapers are here, chic questions my loyalty on the Mars mission.

At that point, part of me was wishing she did not survive Dr. Eva's attack. Then when she is in the hospital and I visit her all those times, listen to her family's issues, as well as support her largely undeserved promotion for Spectre that I know Udina only offerred because he is planning something, this disloyal chic basically was ready to kill me drunk off her Spectre status.

So yeah I killed her. Can't trust her. That or I spare her disloyal a** and then ship her off to Hackett rather than allow her to be a crew member again. Don't need that kind of disloyalty.

#232
Nightwriter

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 I don't hate her.  I have better things to do with my time than heap hatred on fictitious characters (such as hanging around these forums when I should be working!)

The #1 thing I see most people list as the reason they hate her is because they think she is racist because she mistrusts other species.  Strangely enough, most of the alien characters do not get held to this same standard.

Probably because Ashley is the only one who actually brings race based concerns to Shepard, meaning the player feels more confronted with her biases. If Garrus and Wrex say anything about race it's usually in passing. Neither of them actually approach you with problems about other squadmates. To be fair though, the SR1 wasn't a turian or krogan ship, so they weren't exactly in the same position as Ashley.

I don't think Garrus and Wrex ever say anything as bald as "I'm no fan of aliens" either. Or at least, if they did, they probably didn't say it during a scene where they were rejecting and alienating the player.


I would like to add that that does go along with Ashley's religious beliefs as well. She confronts you with her beliefs and asks a direct opinion of them.

Er, maybe it's been too long since I played ME1, but I don't remember it that way. With Garrus and Wrex she opened the conversation with her concerns. But her religion seemed to be something we just stumbled upon in passing, and she asked me if I had any qualms with it. I didn't. It was pretty much a nonissue after that.

#233
AlexMBrennan

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Strangely enough, most of the alien characters do not get held to this same standard.

Does Garrus walk around the Normandy saying "I can't tell the humans from the animals"?

Er, maybe it's been too long since I played ME1, but I don't remember it that way.

When talking about her family history, she springs the "I believe that dad is watching me from literal biblical heaven" thing.

#234
Nightwriter

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

Strangely enough, most of the alien characters do not get held to this same standard.

Does Garrus walk around the Normandy saying "I can't tell the humans from the animals"?

That dialogue is a mistake caused by a glitch.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Er, maybe it's been too long since I played ME1, but I don't remember it that way.

When talking about her family history, she springs the "I believe that dad is watching me from literal biblical heaven" thing.

Yes, that is how I remember it. She didn't ambush me, the conversation just sort of led us there.

#235
AlexMBrennan

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That dialogue is a mistake caused by a glitch.

I don't know about you but my opinion of characters is largely based on what they actually say and do in the game, and less on what the developers happed to have been thinking when they made it.

#236
PMC65

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Nope ... everyone does not hate her.

I liked the character from the first time that I saw her ... okay, the pink and white armor was an eye-roll but her knocking out the drones was great. Here was this soldier who had just survived a geth attack after seeing her whole team die and she was eager to get back into the battle. While all of my Shepard's respected her courage and strength, my one Akuze Shepard felt a bond with her as a fellow lone survivor. 

She continued to show herself even more capable at times than Shepard and Kaidan ... as those two focused on the dead turian, it was Ash that saw Cole first. She was also the one that spotted the salarian messing with the keeper. Ash was constantly on guard even when the others weren't. Maybe part of it was her need to be the best soldier. 

She did not trust the other races but she could and did work with them. She learned to respect the salarians but she always knew that if they (aliens) ever had to choose between us or them ... they would save themselves. "I don’t mean we should mistreat them, Commander. I just think we should be prepared to go without them. As noble as the Council members seem now, if their backs are against the wall, they’ll abandon us." There were moments in the game that I was glad she didn't say, "Uh, Skipper ... Told you so."

Her spirituality was another part that I felt a connection to as well as her ability to respect that others may not feel the same. If Shepard asks her if she has a problem if he does not believe in God she answers, "Commander, I’m not some kind of zealot. I believe in God. What everyone else believes is their business." As someone who has friends from all different spiritual beliefs as well as agnostics & atheists ... I could relate to her.

You could see her softer side with the widower of one of her fallen sisters and if you look at her history she was well-respected by her DI and fellow soldiers. Her abilities should have pushed her farther but her grandfather's past sins had held her back. The Alliance brass used her to continue punishing her grandfather's surrender to the turians. Even Shepard notes that "your record is spotless, and your technical scores are exemplary. You should be serving with the fleet. She knew that but instead of cry or complain she just dug in harder ... worked harder ... hoping that one day she could clear her family name.

The fact that she is also close to her family was another bonus. Outside of her family's tarnished name, Ashley came from a pretty normal family that loved one another and looked out for each other. What a breath of fresh air in a day and age when characters have to be suffering mommy or daddy issues. The only area that I would have liked to really pick on her about was the poetry. Ash in ME1 was the kind of gal that I would have loved boxing with, drinking wine together in a bar and singing horrible karaoke with.

Horizon was tough. I could appreciate how she did not trust Shepard with Cerberus and respected her for calling Shepard out. Did I expect Ashley to leave the Alliance and join Cerberus? No. That would have gone against who I thought Ash was. But it also did not surprise me to learn that she had defended Shepard in her report (Anderson tells you that Ashley confirmed Shepard's story). I only wish that both the romanced and non-romanced Shepards had received letters. 

ME3 is a little tougher because I only played it once and with my non-Ashley romanced Shepard. I did like how she protected Liara on Mars which was in line with her character. After Benezia died in ME1 it was Ashley that told Shepard that (s)he should check on Liara. Her questioning if Shepard was still in contact with Cerberus didn't bother me. It was a fair question and I always felt that Ashley was the type of person that was cautious to a fault. She wanted to believe but she was acting like my cousins from Missouri. Words were not going to cut it ... actions were. 

Hearing that she was being made SpecTRe was not an issue either. If another human was to be promoted why not someone who had helped bring Saren down? Heck, she had just as much, if not more, achievements than Shepard did at the start of ME1. What had Shepard done? War Hero? Ashley was part of the team that had brought down Saren. Lone Survivor? Ashley had survived a geth attack and ... Saren. Ruthless? Once again ... was part of the team that saved the Citadel and potentially the Council. We also do not know what she did for the two years that Shepard was gone and all the time (outside of Horizon) after the Commander returned. In my book, if a human was to be promoted ... One of Shepard's crew were the most deserving. But then, I also don't think that Shepard could have been successful without her or the rrest of the team. 

The fact that Ashley held a gun on Shepard was also not so horrible ... Wrex had done the same thing. She was doing what she thought was right. Protecting the Council. There were never any hard feelings and in my playthrough she sided with Shepard.

The drunk scene was okay as well ... they had watched Earth fall and the war was not going well. Heck, Dr. Chakwas got drunk, Tali got drunk, Shepard passed out on the Citadel ... If I were there, I'd have slept in a wine vat myself. So the fact that Ashley had gotten drunk in-between missions was not a problem. My problem was that the conversations with her were lacking. I was hoping to have a conversation that touched on their past or at the least mirrored past conversations. The cut content of Shepard and her dying would have been nice. Maybe one day I will play ME3 again and use the Shepard that romanced her.

Ashley was also the reason that I first created a male Shepard. If my female Shepard could not romance her ... well, I'd suffer through a male Shepard. I'm glad I did, though. Piers Shepard is now my second favorite Shepard and he allowed me to see different sides of both Ashley and Miranda.     

You may hate or dislike Ashley for personal or story related reasons ... I don't see why that should bother me or anyone else. This is an RPG and how we as the players or our characters feel is up to us. It's our own sandbox. Even though I love the character, I also have a Shepard that hates Ash. He actually can't stand most people but he hides it very well. For me, it's all about the story and the Shepard you are creating.  

#237
Nightwriter

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

That dialogue is a mistake caused by a glitch.

I don't know about you but my opinion of characters is largely based on what they actually say and do in the game, and less on what the developers happed to have been thinking when they made it.

If you'd like to base your judgment on unintentional software glitches then by all means judge to your heart's content. I daresay that would prove interesting. You could say Kaidan has dementia because he refers to soldierShep as a biotic. How did he pass the Alliance psychological screening when he is so clearly deranged? He is a liability to the Alliance. Discuss.

In any case, it's not like what the writers intended differs in any way from the line that's in the actual game. The line is simply supposed to trigger when you come across a keeper, and not when you're just walking about the Presidium.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 20 juin 2013 - 07:56 .


#238
LoneWolf3905

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Don't hate Ash. Some people just think characters should be perfect in every way.

#239
AlexMBrennan

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How is the player supposed to do anything else? You have just the game, and not the complete script the game was made from.

#240
Nightwriter

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Oh, when I first heard her say that line I was horrified. It wasn't until later that I went online and found out it was a glitch. I couldn't really just forget that information after I discovered it, though. Made it pretty hard for me to keep holding it against her.

#241
PMC65

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Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, when I first heard her say that line I was horrified. It wasn't until later that I went online and found out it was a glitch. I couldn't really just forget that information after I discovered it, though. Made it pretty hard for me to keep holding it against her.


I actually was thinking it ... the elcor looked like elephants, the hanar looked like jelly fish, turian look like grasshoppers and the keepers make me think of the stick bugs. Not sure why they do, but they do.

Ashley just vocalized what I was thinking the first time that I played the game.

Should she have kept it to herself? Depends on the player really. I would have laughed in agreement and called us both "ignorant Earth girls" for not knowing what our galactic neighbors look like. Others would have cringed and told her that she was no longer allowed in their club.

#242
naes1984

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Kaiden and Ashley take up memory and disc space that could have been used on more interesting characters.Mass Effect 2 is better because they are not major parts of it. I would literally have ANYONE of my crew from ME2 in place of Kiaden/Ashley and James in ME3.

#243
AlexMBrennan

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Oh, when I first heard her say that line I was horrified. It wasn't until later that I went online and found out it was a glitch

To clarify: the question was why people hate Ash, and I think the answer is that it's because Ash - intentionally or otherwise - makes such comments.

Should she have kept it to herself? Depends on the player really

Yes - if you are a soldier working on a diplomatic mission you ought to act professional and keep disparaging comments about the locals to yourself.

#244
Nightwriter

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

Oh, when I first heard her say that line I was horrified. It wasn't until later that I went online and found out it was a glitch

To clarify: the question was why people hate Ash, and I think the answer is that it's because Ash - intentionally or otherwise - makes such comments.

... Because she makes the comment that she isn't sure if the keeper is an animal or a sapient? I'm not sure what's so hateworthy about that. If you put a hanar next to a keeper and asked a human who's never encountered aliens before to tell you which one is a person and which one a creature, they probably wouldn't be able to tell you just by eyeballing it.

#245
conjmk

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Ryzaki wrote...

conjmk wrote...

Modius Prime wrote...

What does Kaidan say if you never visit him in the hospital and shoot him?


I think he just says the same thing. Kaidan doesn't get nearly as pissy.


I don't think so. In my rendedouche to the max game he simply said something about it being better than shooting the wrong man.

I heard he might compare Shep to Saren but I never got that.


Seriously? People need to make youtube videos of this sh*t. Now I really want to see him say that.

#246
devSin

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conjmk wrote...

Seriously? People need to make youtube videos of this sh*t. Now I really want to see him say that.

I believe there's a video of it. I'm almost certain I've seen it before, and I've definitely never done it in the game.

It's a pretty good burn, but I don't remember his exact words (Ryzaki's paraphrase is accurate). He's a lot more subtle than Ashley (hers is almost comical petulance).

Modifié par devSin, 20 juin 2013 - 07:00 .


#247
PMC65

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Should she have kept it to herself? Depends on the player really

Yes - if you are a soldier working on a diplomatic mission you ought to act professional and keep disparaging comments about the locals to yourself.


I did not see that comment as disparaging but admitting her own ignorance. It reminded me of my brother in a Japanese restaurant once and looking at all the items on the table he remarked, "Which ones do we eat?" It all looked like flowers and decorations to him.

I also don't think that Ashley said it so loud that everyone and God heard her. It was one of the comments that she made to Kaidan and Shepard alone. Just as they spoke at each monument sharing their thoughts.
 
The person that sounded the least professional on that mission was Shepard with comments like "You’ve made your decision … I won’t waste my breath," to the Council. That line, like so many others from Shepard, sounded like a pouting child and not an Officer.

But we all bring our own crayons and past luggage to the shading of each character. You saw her comment one way and I saw it in another. Nothing wrong with that in my book. Image IPB

#248
KaiserShep

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iakus wrote...

That reminds me, I never did get that Samaritan liver recipe from Wrex...


The problem with eating Salarian liver is that the Salarian has to be alive, or you won't be able to enjoy the spice provided by  fear. 

#249
Nightwriter

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PMC65 wrote...
 
The person that sounded the least professional on that mission was Shepard with comments like "You’ve made your decision … I won’t waste my breath," to the Council. That line, like so many others from Shepard, sounded like a pouting child and not an Officer.

Shepard can be as eloquent as you like in side missions, but when it counts his savvy seems to desert him.

#250
BaladasDemnevanni

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naes1984 wrote...

Kaiden and Ashley take up memory and disc space that could have been used on more interesting characters.Mass Effect 2 is better because they are not major parts of it. I would literally have ANYONE of my crew from ME2 in place of Kiaden/Ashley and James in ME3.


A man after my own heart.