422 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

StreetMagic wrote...

Wait.. "hero man"? Seriously?

Thank god I don't have her around long enough to hear if that's true.

That's why I miss Chris

[knightnblu]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Sersiouly. So she has trust issues, and doesn't like aliens in the first game. She has her reasons.

I don't know about "everybody," but I know my reasons. The following is based on Ashley being your LI from ME and the player being paragon. First off, you are right, she has major trust issues. Of all of the people that should have known who Shepard was, it was she. BioWare never did a morality check on Shepard to determine if he were a paragon or renegade, therefore Williams treated Shepard as if he were renegade by default. As such, he couldn't be trusted because of his pragmatism. If you happen to be paragon, tough luck.
 
Second, Williams has nothing to do with you despite the tepid email she sent you. And before anybody starts whining about how it really wasn't tepid, how many times did she contact you after she sent it? That speaks volumes on her sentiment. She leaves you to rot under the kindnesses of the Alliance because she couldn't bring herself to look at you and she even ignores Anderson's pleas for her to do so, her revulsion is so great. But that's not all.
 
Third, she essentially treats Shepard exactly like the Alliance treated her dear old granddad. She had major issues with what they did to General Williams when he found himself in an impossible situation, but Shepard? No way in hell will she cut him any slack despite being placed in an impossible situation. If there is anyone who should have known better than to jump to conclusions without all of the evidence or even speaking to the accused to get the whole story, it is Williams. Does BioWare ever address this aspect of her reaction? Nope, it's like it never happened.
 
In fact, BioWare assumes that Ashley is right and Shepard is wrong despite being the very ones who created this situation. In ME3 Shepard never gets the opportunity to hold Williams accountable and when she begins to make a mea culpa, Shepard just lets her off of the hook. It is as if Ashley's crap smells like perfume. You don't like it? Tough. You want a relationship with her? You have to kiss her backside.
 
Fourth, Williams is so repulsed by the idea of re-engaging Shepard in a romance that she has to get drunk enough to take him back. It's like he is coyote ugly and that is the only way that she can deal with him. Except her past association got her promoted to Lieutenant Commander and she now sees that his star is on the rise again and she's likely thinking that banging him will yield Admiral's rank this time. She might even manage to outrank grandpa. Time in grade? Not for Williams and her associations. She even makes Spectre rank because of Shepard. Great things for her if she sticks by him. The truth is that she didn't break the curse on her family, Shepard did and she knows it. All it takes is for her to drink copious amounts of alcohol and she can jump in bed with him again and let the manna fall from the heavens.
 
Contrast her behavior with that of Miranda and Tali. Miranda was Cerberus and was 100% loyal to TIM. Yet she stood by Shepard when it counted and even placed her sister at risk because of it, Williams never did anything like that. In fact, Williams has never sacrificed for Shepard. She went with him when he boosted the Normandy, but so did every other crewman, so that isn't really special. In ME2 she abandons him and jets. In ME3 she continues to distrust him and suspects him of being a Cerberus sleeper agent. Never once does she take a stand when it really counted and bad mouthing Cerberus when you watch a video on Cronos Station does not count as a sacrifice either.
 
Tali's fleet was attacked by Cerberus and Quarians were killed, but she stands by Shepard because she knows him. But the one person who should have known him best and claims to have loved him, abandons him at a critical juncture and BioWare never lets you put her feet to the fire for it. They never allow you to work that out. You just have to bite the bullet and live with it because they were too timid to deal with it. That wasn't the Ash that I knew in ME, but that is who she became in ME2 and continued to be in ME3. That's because BioWare forgot who she had been in ME and frankly, I don't think that they really even cared about it. Especially given their track record for continuity.
 
The writers changed for her character and the new writer fouled her all up. He took a strong woman and made her weak and indecisive in direct contradiction of her earlier strength. Williams morality was black or white, not 64,000 shades of gray and her loyalty, once earned, was not so easily broken. Williams had believed that Shepard was dead for more than two years, loved him and thought of him as the paragon of everything she believed in and valued, but she falls for the lies of TIM and refuses to trust Shepard any longer? She takes less than three and a half minutes to judge him a traitor and jets after not seeing him for two years? Just writes him off as a waste? I don't buy that.
 
The Ashley that I knew would have demanded an accounting and the facts. She wouldn't just trash Shepard and leave with barely any information at all. She even fails in a military sense because she never even bothers to explore why Shepard was able to move around on Horizon and everyone else couldn't. That information alone could save Alliance lives, but she never bothers to explore that. She never attempts to mine him for intel on Cerberus, she never asks him how he knew about the attack. In fact, there was damned little regarding what actually happened on Horizon, except from a victim's perspective. Therefore, she failed her mission. Why? Because Shepard was with Cerberus and she just couldn't take it. Not to worry though, she will make Lt. Cmder. in six months because she is so squared away. Nice to see that the Alliance rewards trying and doesn't worry about actual results.
 
She has changed, and not for the better. She even endangers the Council and holds a gun on Shepard with the intent of putting a bullet in his brain. She has fallen very far from her previous incarnation. That is why I no longer have any use for the character.

[TheProtheans]

Is there a reason to like her?

[Dextro Milk]

"Hero-man..."

Who thought this sounded good and deserved to be in the game? : /

[Battlebloodmage]

It seems more like people hate Kaidan seeing as how the majority of players saved her instead. I do not hate Ashley, I'm rather fond of her opinionated attitude. I just never saved her because the choice is between her and Kaidan. I probably would have save her instead if the choice is Liara. Anyway, Ashley opposes the player a lot if they're paragon, so I guess it comes off as annoying to some. Many others don't like her becoming ME3's Miranda.

[KaiserShep]

I never heard that hero-man stuff. Perhaps using FemShep was an even better idea than I thought.

[CronoDragoon]

TheProtheans wrote...

Is there a reason to like her?

She has a sense of humor, can party, cares about her family, has a strong sense of right and wrong (which is unfortunately miscalculated in ME2 and part of ME3).

[TheProtheans]

CronoDragoon wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Is there a reason to like her?

She has a sense of humor, can party, cares about her family, has a strong sense of right and wrong (which is unfortunately miscalculated in ME2 and part of ME3).

I ruled out all things wrong with her and everything not in the vanilla game.
I guess that is a reason to like her, can't hate someone for caring for her family.

But does being a pain make you likable for people not in your family?

[AresKeith]

TheProtheans wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Is there a reason to like her?

She has a sense of humor, can party, cares about her family, has a strong sense of right and wrong (which is unfortunately miscalculated in ME2 and part of ME3).

I ruled out all things wrong with her and everything not in the vanilla game.
I guess that is a reason to like her, can't hate someone for caring for her family.

But does being a pain make you likable for people not in your family?

She may be a pain to you, but not to those that like her

[o Ventus]

CptData wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Frankly, the most disappointing part of ME3 (to me) was how she was treated by the game's writers. It's basically like they decided they were going to write for her haters instead of her fans.

A thought I never had, but feels plausible. Sometimes.

Man, I -really- missed Chris L'Etoiles work. Thane wasn't the same anymore, Ash was not even Ash.

Who wrote nu-Ashley, anyway?

Chris L'Etoile was probably my favorite writer on the team along with Patrick Weekes.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

Fourth, Williams is so repulsed by the idea of re-engaging Shepard in a romance that she has to get drunk enough to take him back. It's like he is coyote ugly and that is the only way that she can deal with him. Except her past association got her promoted to Lieutenant Commander and she now sees that his star is on the rise again and she's likely thinking that banging him will yield Admiral's rank this time. She might even manage to outrank grandpa. Time in grade? Not for Williams and her associations. She even makes Spectre rank because of Shepard. Great things for her if she sticks by him. The truth is that she didn't break the curse on her family, Shepard did and she knows it. All it takes is for her to drink copious amounts of alcohol and she can jump in bed with him again and let the manna fall from the heavens.

This is, hands down, the wierdest interpretation of the drunk scene I have come across...
 

Contrast her behavior with that of Miranda and Tali. Miranda was Cerberus and was 100% loyal to TIM. Yet she stood by Shepard when it counted and even placed her sister at risk because of it, Williams never did anything like that. In fact, Williams has never sacrificed for Shepard. She went with him when he boosted the Normandy, but so did every other crewman, so that isn't really special. In ME2 she abandons him and jets. In ME3 she continues to distrust him and suspects him of being a Cerberus sleeper agent. Never once does she take a stand when it really counted and bad mouthing Cerberus when you watch a video on Cronos Station does not count as a sacrifice either.

"Udina, step back from the console" 
 

[Seival]

I do not hate Ashley.

[JasonShepard]

OP: I also do not hate Ashley. Then again, I don't hate any of the characters (no, not even Udina). However, Ashley is is certainly in my top few favourite characters.

iakus wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Fourth, Williams is so repulsed by the idea of re-engaging Shepard in a romance that she has to get drunk enough to take him back. It's like he is coyote ugly and that is the only way that she can deal with him. Except her past association got her promoted to Lieutenant Commander and she now sees that his star is on the rise again and she's likely thinking that banging him will yield Admiral's rank this time. She might even manage to outrank grandpa. Time in grade? Not for Williams and her associations. She even makes Spectre rank because of Shepard. Great things for her if she sticks by him. The truth is that she didn't break the curse on her family, Shepard did and she knows it. All it takes is for her to drink copious amounts of alcohol and she can jump in bed with him again and let the manna fall from the heavens.

This is, hands down, the wierdest interpretation of the drunk scene I have come across...

I agree. I'm fairly sure the drunk scene is (A) just a bit of fun dialogue, and ( Ashley letting the stress of the war get to her. I can't blame her - there are entire planets being destroyed out there.  I'm fairly sure that's a more realistic reason for getting drunk than "repulsed by Shepard but wanting to bang him anyway to earn rank so getting herself drunk first."

Modifié par JasonShepard, 13 juin 2013 - 09:38 .

[CynicalShep]

I quite liked her in ME because she was portrayed as an outspoken and strong woman, issues aside. In ME2 her initial rant is somewhat understandable (why call Shepard a god if you'll start piling it on him later?) but her turning around and leaving was out of character. She got no new intel aside from comfirmation that Shepard works with the collectors. How did she not get taken with the other colonists anyways? In ME3 she was butchered and thrown of a cliff. It wasn't bad - it was appalling.

[devSin]

Kaidan and Ashley were my go-to team in the original. We were there for all the big missions (except Noveria, since I like to bring Liara to Benezia).

Not too big a fan of her in ME3, so I haven't really imported a save where she survived (and at this point I never will). Just the way it goes, I guess.

o Ventus wrote...

Who wrote nu-Ashley, anyway?

Jay. He also wrote Miranda, Grunt, and I'd be willing to bet Jacob (that mission is so horribly written—the dialogue is just awful—that I first pegged it as possibly even being from Mac, but the similarities to scenes in Star Wars indicates that it was Jay).

Sadly, I think all those characters were terribly mishandled.

Modifié par devSin, 13 juin 2013 - 10:25 .

[Arcian]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Sersiouly. So she has trust issues, and doesn't like aliens in the first game. She has her reasons.

Well, your screen name, for starters. That appropriately describes the first few things I loathe about Ashley.

[o Ventus]

devSin wrote...

Jay. He also wrote Miranda, Grunt, and I'd be willing to bet Jacob (that mission is so horribly written—the dialogue is just awful—that I first pegged it as possibly even being from Mac, but the similarities to scenes in Star Wars indicates that it was Jay).

Sadly, I think all those character were terribly mishandled.

That might do it.

Jay isn't particularly good at writing. The Citadel romance content is very good (for Miranda anyway), but most everything else takes from average to god-awful.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

i don't.She always gets Virmired

[AresKeith]

StreetMagic wrote...

Jacob's content is depressing in ME3. Even though it seems relatively OK if you resolve the mission, his lines and attitude are bland. Like he's dead inside. He's better off dying in ME2. At least he goes out with a bang there.

There's also the part where Bioware forgot he was a LI

[Sanunes]

I didn't mind her in Mass Effect 1 and I didn't hate her in Mass Effect 3, I just preferred to have Kaiden as part of my crew.