422 réponses à ce sujet

[Modius Prime]

What does Kaidan say if you never visit him in the hospital and shoot him?

[KaiserShep]

Ashley's hatred of politicians/politics warmed me to her.

[Bleachrude]

IanPolaris wrote...

CptData wrote...

So Ashley was right. Especially in case of the Asari: didn't the Councilor say something like this "Earth keeps the Reapers busy until we can muster our fleets"? Mankind was the dog, Reapers were the bear.

Of course that attitude is not exclusive to the Asari.  As the two Private Williams in the War Room pithily puts it to Private Cambell, "If Thessia were being attacked and Earth were safe, we'd be guarding our space first too" (or words very much to that effect).

-Polaris

Which I'm amused that so few people noticed. The only race that you can say categorically would've helped would be the turians....

[Han Shot First]

The Asari were right to hold back their fleets. While the Reapers were busy with Earth, it gave the other races time to prepare defenses of Council territory that had not yet fallen. A counterattack was simply not in the cards until the Crucible was completed. Prior to that the galaxy did not have the means to drive the Reapers back, and the best they could hope for was to delay their advance.

Had the Asari, along with the Turians and Salarians, immediately launched a counterattack to drive the Reapers off of Earth, the counter-offensive would have concluded with a disastrous defeat. Tevos, rather than Udina, was correct.

The two war room senries were also correct in their assessment of how humanity would have responded, had roles been reversed and Thessia was invaded first.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 15 juin 2013 - 11:37 .

[Bleachrude]

KaiserShep wrote...

Ashley's hatred of politicians/politics warmed me to her.

I do think it was a missed opportunity to have her interact with Victus.

[Redbelle]

I like Ashley, I just don't like her glam makeover. Or her absence of characterisation once she's aboard Normandy...... then again many of the crew get that treatment. Makes walking around the ship to find them after every mission a waste of time when you discover they have nothing to say mission after mission on the trot.

[KaiserShep]

Bleachrude wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Ashley's hatred of politicians/politics warmed me to her.

I do think it was a missed opportunity to have her interact with Victus.

I agree. Victus would've been my prime choice to be the new Turian councilor, as he's not some daft bureaucrat that will suddenly turn his back on you. 

[Anubis722]

.[/quote]

I don't know about "everybody," but I know my reasons. The following is based on Ashley being your LI from ME and the player being paragon. First off, you are right, she has major trust issues. Of all of the people that should have known who Shepard was, it was she. BioWare never did a morality check on Shepard to determine if he were a paragon or renegade, therefore Williams treated Shepard as if he were renegade by default. As such, he couldn't be trusted because of his pragmatism. If you happen to be paragon, tough luck.
 
Second, Williams has nothing to do with you despite the tepid email she sent you. And before anybody starts whining about how it really wasn't tepid, how many times did she contact you after she sent it? That speaks volumes on her sentiment. She leaves you to rot under the kindnesses of the Alliance because she couldn't bring herself to look at you and she even ignores Anderson's pleas for her to do so, her revulsion is so great. But that's not all.
 
Third, she essentially treats Shepard exactly like the Alliance treated her dear old granddad. She had major issues with what they did to General Williams when he found himself in an impossible situation, but Shepard? No way in hell will she cut him any slack despite being placed in an impossible situation. If there is anyone who should have known better than to jump to conclusions without all of the evidence or even speaking to the accused to get the whole story, it is Williams. Does BioWare ever address this aspect of her reaction? Nope, it's like it never happened.
 
In fact, BioWare assumes that Ashley is right and Shepard is wrong despite being the very ones who created this situation. In ME3 Shepard never gets the opportunity to hold Williams accountable and when she begins to make a mea culpa, Shepard just lets her off of the hook. It is as if Ashley's crap smells like perfume. You don't like it? Tough. You want a relationship with her? You have to kiss her backside.
 
Fourth, Williams is so repulsed by the idea of re-engaging Shepard in a romance that she has to get drunk enough to take him back. It's like he is coyote ugly and that is the only way that she can deal with him. Except her past association got her promoted to Lieutenant Commander and she now sees that his star is on the rise again and she's likely thinking that banging him will yield Admiral's rank this time. She might even manage to outrank grandpa. Time in grade? Not for Williams and her associations. She even makes Spectre rank because of Shepard. Great things for her if she sticks by him. The truth is that she didn't break the curse on her family, Shepard did and she knows it. All it takes is for her to drink copious amounts of alcohol and she can jump in bed with him again and let the manna fall from the heavens.
 
Contrast her behavior with that of Miranda and Tali. Miranda was Cerberus and was 100% loyal to TIM. Yet she stood by Shepard when it counted and even placed her sister at risk because of it, Williams never did anything like that. In fact, Williams has never sacrificed for Shepard. She went with him when he boosted the Normandy, but so did every other crewman, so that isn't really special. In ME2 she abandons him and jets. In ME3 she continues to distrust him and suspects him of being a Cerberus sleeper agent. Never once does she take a stand when it really counted and bad mouthing Cerberus when you watch a video on Cronos Station does not count as a sacrifice either.
 
Tali's fleet was attacked by Cerberus and Quarians were killed, but she stands by Shepard because she knows him. But the one person who should have known him best and claims to have loved him, abandons him at a critical juncture and BioWare never lets you put her feet to the fire for it. They never allow you to work that out. You just have to bite the bullet and live with it because they were too timid to deal with it. That wasn't the Ash that I knew in ME, but that is who she became in ME2 and continued to be in ME3. That's because BioWare forgot who she had been in ME and frankly, I don't think that they really even cared about it. Especially given their track record for continuity.
 
The writers changed for her character and the new writer fouled her all up. He took a strong woman and made her weak and indecisive in direct contradiction of her earlier strength. Williams morality was black or white, not 64,000 shades of gray and her loyalty, once earned, was not so easily broken. Williams had believed that Shepard was dead for more than two years, loved him and thought of him as the paragon of everything she believed in and valued, but she falls for the lies of TIM and refuses to trust Shepard any longer? She takes less than three and a half minutes to judge him a traitor and jets after not seeing him for two years? Just writes him off as a waste? I don't buy that.
 
The Ashley that I knew would have demanded an accounting and the facts. She wouldn't just trash Shepard and leave with barely any information at all. She even fails in a military sense because she never even bothers to explore why Shepard was able to move around on Horizon and everyone else couldn't. That information alone could save Alliance lives, but she never bothers to explore that. She never attempts to mine him for intel on Cerberus, she never asks him how he knew about the attack. In fact, there was damned little regarding what actually happened on Horizon, except from a victim's perspective. Therefore, she failed her mission. Why? Because Shepard was with Cerberus and she just couldn't take it. Not to worry though, she will make Lt. Cmder. in six months because she is so squared away. Nice to see that the Alliance rewards trying and doesn't worry about actual results.
 
She has changed, and not for the better. She even endangers the Council and holds a gun on Shepard with the intent of putting a bullet in his brain. She has fallen very far from her previous incarnation. That is why I no longer have any use for the character. [/quote]

This

[Mimitochan]

knightnblu wrote...
That wasn't the Ash that I knew in ME, but that is who she became in ME2 and continued to be in ME3. That's because BioWare forgot who she had been in ME and frankly, I don't think that they really even cared about it. Especially given their track record for continuity.

I only played the game twice and saved Kaidan, so I never first-hand interacted with her in ME2 and ME3 - I've seen vids and heard about her character development. I also know about the missing scenes and lines in ME3. I don't understand what happened to her looks either in ME3, but I suppose they wouldn't have been a problem if her mind hadn't changed too. I thought ME1 Ashley was sexy as hell, she certainly didn't need lipgloss and high heels to be appealing. 

What does it say about BioWare's female representation? As a woman, I'm used to seeing female characters in video games and media depicted as such, I probably wouldn't have noticed her bimbo looks if this is how she had looked from the start. Why change her in such a way, though, I'll never understand. They successfully injected Allers for sex appeal, there are plenty of other female characters, why not leave Ashley alone and show love for such a refreshing character they had created themselves?

What's said here about Ash, I feel exactly the same about Kaidan, and a lot of other characters - but I often hear that Ash has significantly less specific contents than other squadmates.

Kaidan distrusts Shepard too in ME2, and also points a gun at the Coup.
From the vids I've watched on YT, I felt Kaidan had become the Paragon boy, while Ash was the Renegade girl now. Morality in ME3 had become as simplistic as that - so even though most of what I see from Kaidan in ME3 doesn't make any sense either, I suppose it's less irritating since he's such a boyscout all the time. 

It's as if apart from Mars, they didn't know what to do with the Virmire Survivor or didn't really care. 

I'm doing my third playthrough at the moment. I'm only at my first big mission in ME1.

When Ashley first asks to have a word with you, she right away expresses her mistrust of aliens.
My gut reaction was to tell her that she was out of line - that option ends the personal dialogue, and you're not able to know more about her.

If you and Shepard can overcome that though, just like in real life, you have the opportunity to learn more about her background and motivations. I loved the original subtlety of the game when it came to getting to know NPCs, it was a perfect  combo between gameplay and writing - maybe it wasn't always flowing naturally, but it still was the most amazing interactive experience I ever had.

I feel a lot of the original game's spirit and style was sacrificed in the process of the sequels, and that Ashley is unfortunately a perfect symbol of that.

It makes me sad. 

I'll renew my gratitude, love, admiration and praise to BioWare for creating the original Mass Effect game here, but I have no hope for experiencing a comparable adventure in the future. Chances are our paths will part.

Modifié par Mimitochan, 16 juin 2013 - 09:04 .

[CptData]

Mimitochan wrote...

I feel a lot of the original game's spirit and style was sacrificed in the process of the sequels, and that Ashley is unfortunately a perfect symbol of that.

BW sacrificed the RP in "Action RPG" for a bigger audience. And yeah, as you said, Ashley is one of the most visible evidence for that theory. She got reduced to some kind of a sex symbol - without giving her a sexy character in ME3. C'mon, lets pretend you're new in the series and start with ME3: does Ashley have ANYTHING drawing you to her? Nope. And that's from one of her fans. ME3!Ashley is pretty much hollow, she works only with ME1!Ashley as basic idea for a headcanon.

Well, I said that before.

[Mimitochan]

StreetMagic wrote...

She always had a lip injection appearance, even in ME1. It just came out more in the last one. She was dolled up in additional ways. They just don't have good character creation tools. The best faces are all the digitally scanned types, like Miranda, Jack, and male Shep.

She always had full lips, yes - but some people HAVE natural full lips you know. 
Ashley actually has a face model too, I think I saw pictures once. Her face textures changed quite a lot, not sure about the headmesh, I haven't compared them yet.

The ME1 engine just worked differently as far as lighting goes.
In ME3, some models are better off than others, but on the overall, the game looks terrible. Mirand looks so much worse. Most of all, the FaceFX animations changed completely, and face animations are a heavy component of one's looks. And let's just not talk about the body models, outfits and running animations. 

ANYWAY. This isn't about beauty contests. Or personal tastes in women.
Some people like bimbos, suit them fine. 

This is about the meaning and reason for such changes. 

[Ridersection]

i like ash, she is my favorite romance (in me1 and me3) in me3 she looks even better

[KaiserShep]

She certainly smiles better in ME3. If you banter with Ashley in the cargo bay in ME1, and you happen to hit on the topic of an officer you're both familiar with, they start to smile and laugh about it, and ye gads, that grin is the goofiest thing I've ever seen lol. The face modeling is pretty rough on certain characters. Thankfully, the ones that smile the most don't seem to be affected.

[CptData]

StreetMagic wrote...

She always had a lip injection appearance, even in ME1. It just came out more in the last one. She was dolled up in additional ways. They just don't have good character creation tools. The best faces are all the digitally scanned types, like Miranda, Jack, and male Shep.

Ashley's face was scanned from a Czech model ...

[conjmk]

Modius Prime wrote...

What does Kaidan say if you never visit him in the hospital and shoot him?

I think he just says the same thing. Kaidan doesn't get nearly as pissy.

Modifié par conjmk, 16 juin 2013 - 03:06 .

[Oni Changas]

Annubis nailed it for me. As for Kaidan, he's more believable, his relationship with Shepard was professional as he always kept to himself. Not to mention once he's aboard the SR2, he actually reintegrates himself to the crew and has more banter.

[o Ventus]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

The writers butchered her character just about every main supporting character in ME3.  

That is all.

Fixed that for you.

Modifié par o Ventus, 16 juin 2013 - 04:28 .

[agentN7]

I romanced her on 1 & 3. I don't dislike any characters on my team. They all have admirable traits to me. As far as Ashley goes, i like her strength.

[Iakus]

IanPolaris wrote...

CptData wrote...

So Ashley was right. Especially in case of the Asari: didn't the Councilor say something like this "Earth keeps the Reapers busy until we can muster our fleets"? Mankind was the dog, Reapers were the bear.

Of course that attitude is not exclusive to the Asari.  As the two Private Williams in the War Room pithily puts it to Private Cambell, "If Thessia were being attacked and Earth were safe, we'd be guarding our space first too" (or words very much to that effect).

-Polaris

Thus why Ash says it's not racism, it's "human" nature.  A species without a self-preservation instinct isn't going to last long as a species.

[BrohanB]

Her attitude is too ****y, simple as that.

Even in ME3 she still didn't trust Shep that he wasn't with Cerberus anymore.

[DeathScepter]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

The writers butchered her character in ME3.  

That is all.

There were a lot of character butchering among others things

[BaladasDemnevanni]

CptData wrote...

She's "too real". And reminds people of their own issues.

Besides that: Ashley doesn't trust Aliens in the beginning, but her PoV can be altered (paragonized). Her trust issues seem to be hardest to swallow, but technically, that's not true. People tend to hate her for:

- her religious views
- poetry-lover
- human

I'd say this accurately sums up my hatred of the Ashley character. The big problem with Ashley is that her backstory is insanely bland. It's essentially: "I'm a career soldier who has never done anything".

When compared to alot of other characters, talking to Wrex about the Genophage or to Thane about his career as an assassin, Ashley's history is nowhere near as exotic or exciting. I feel like I could talk to any military person who hasn't seen combat and Ashley would be about the same. She has a few hobbies, a family, and has virtually no combat experience until Eden Prime. Also add that she has no story of her own for Shepard to become involved in the way that many other Bioware games do.

Edit: It also doesn't help that I hate most poetry.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 16 juin 2013 - 05:00 .

[Jorji Costava]

It's worth noting that the idea that everyone on your squad had to be one of the galaxy's biggest badasses doesn't come into prominence until ME2. In ME1, Kaidan is mostly just a dutiful soldier, Garrus is just an ex-C-Sec officer, and Liara and Tali have little to no combat experience between them (or life experience, for that matter), seeing as they are both essentially adolescents. Only Wrex could be described as a "larger than life" type of character. They're unlikely heroes, and I suspect that's part of the point. It's only in ME2 that we get the Galaxy's Baddest Biotic, the Galaxy's Deadliest Assassin, the Genetically Perfect Woman, etc.