422 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaleel]

I don't hate any characters, but I wanted to slap the taste out her mouth on Mars. I can see her and others asking questions in ME2. But the way she was going at Shepard on Mars was ridiculous, even a romanced Ashley who should know Shepard better than anyone else.

I can even see different dialogue if you gave Cerberus the collector base or destroyed, or if you romanced her or not. But they just made the scene to rigid, and she just wouldn't it go which just annoyed me.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

osbornep wrote...

It's worth noting that the idea that everyone on your squad had to be one of the galaxy's biggest badasses doesn't come into prominence until ME2. In ME1, Kaidan is mostly just a dutiful soldier, Garrus is just an ex-C-Sec officer, and Liara and Tali have little to no combat experience between them (or life experience, for that matter), seeing as they are both essentially adolescents. Only Wrex could be described as a "larger than life" type of character. They're unlikely heroes, and I suspect that's part of the point. It's only in ME2 that we get the Galaxy's Baddest Biotic, the Galaxy's Deadliest Assassin, the Genetically Perfect Woman, etc.

Well, strictly speaking, my point isn't just based on the ME2 badass squad, although ME1's cast in my opinion is Bioware's weakest set of characters, by far.

But even if you compare Ashley to the rest of the ME1 cast, they still come off as larger than life, or at the least more interesting backstories to explain. Kaidan is a biotic and has his experience at Biotic boot camp. Tali provides interesting points on the Quarians, although she comes off more as a talking codex than a character. And Garrus does have his sick Dr. Saleon experiments.

The ME2 cast isn't more interesting than Ashley because they can take down an army of mercs no problem. They're more interesting than Ashley because:

1) you become far more involved in exploring their respective characters, via loyalty missions.

2) they offer very different experiences than anything I'm likely to experience in real\\l ife. Again, Ashley's background is that she's a career soldier with no combat experience, which is why we talk about mundane things: poetry, her sister's boyfriends, etc.

Just how I look at it, at least.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 16 juin 2013 - 07:37 .

[Mimitochan]

osbornep wrote...

It's worth noting that the idea that everyone on your squad had to be one of the galaxy's biggest badasses doesn't come into prominence until ME2. In ME1, Kaidan is mostly just a dutiful soldier, Garrus is just an ex-C-Sec officer, and Liara and Tali have little to no combat experience between them (or life experience, for that matter), seeing as they are both essentially adolescents. Only Wrex could be described as a "larger than life" type of character. They're unlikely heroes, and I suspect that's part of the point. It's only in ME2 that we get the Galaxy's Baddest Biotic, the Galaxy's Deadliest Assassin, the Genetically Perfect Woman, etc.

This is exactly why I love ME1.
I'm freaking tired of badasses.
There's nothing that looks like a badass than another badass.
I mean, aren't people tired of playing the same games over and over again?

I thought they felt all real in ME1. I enjoyed that journey, I experienced it, as part of my life.
ME2 felt like reading a Marvel Comic book.
ME3 felt like watching Independance Day.

[Jorji Costava]

Well, I have to admit, criticizing Ashley for being boring is a bit perplexing to me, seeing as how she's been probabily the most polarizing character on these boards. First off, is it true that she has no combat experience whatsoever? I don't know if that's been established anywhere. More importantly, though, I don't think it's fair to say all she ever talks about is her sisters or poetry. Most notably, Ashley has well-developed and controversial views on politics and religion, and these have inspired much stronger reactions than Biotic bootcamp, the ethics of selling Krogan gonads, etc. We've had any number of threads on how racist Ashley is, or what a religious nut she is. Meanwhile, the backstories of the other ME1 characters haven't inspired anywhere near this kind of reaction. I barely remembered the whole biotic bootcamp story. As far as the loyalty missions go, it's a fair point, with the caveat that I think Bioware had very mixed success with these missions, often returning to the same tired tropes (i.e. daddy issues) with alarming regularity.

Bottom line: I think that Ashley is the character that the writers took the most risks with, at least in ME1. She's tomboyish, independent, religious, nationalistic and interested in poetry. These just aren't characteristics that you would use to appeal to the typical male gamer. The result isn't something you have to like, but I'd hardly call it boring.

[Mimitochan]

StreetMagic wrote...

You make it sound like ME2's cast was unoriginal? I just don't see it. Zaeed was not a typical bounty hunter badass. I was expecting Boba Fett when I first read his dossier, but then I got a crotchety old fart. He ended up growing on me. Jack, Morinth, and Samara did justice to the power of Biotics that ME1 didn't, and they were equally complicated characters.. not so cut and dry in the stereotypical badass ways. Only Grunt fits the bill of stereotypes, but he's funny anyways.

Mmmh, well I honestly don't see how ME2 cast differs from Marvel superheroes for instance.
The only exception being Miranda maybe, cause she's not really part of the Dirty Dozen, or Ocean's Eleven whatever.
Other than that, they all are freaking exceptionally powerful and badass motherf*ckers while still being "humanly" flawed - which is the basic definition of comic superheroes. It's just a scheme i've seen a zillion times in Hollywood movies and that i'm not interested in seeing again, certainly not why i loved ME1 anyway.

Which is not bad, I mean, I like Marvel superheroes and as far as I remember, ME2 is rather a good game, it's just a horrible sequel.

Your comment about doing justice to the power of Biotics is interesting, I actually really loved that there wasn't exceptional about them all in ME1 - they certainly weren't superheroes, actually i wouldn't even say they were heroes. Even Shepard is more the main protagonist than that.

On a side note, the string of loyalty missions felt like a series of DLCs, as good as DLCs may be individually, they still don't make a story when put one after the other.

Modifié par Mimitochan, 16 juin 2013 - 08:50 .

[Zeldrik1389]

I don't actually hate her. More like she bored and annoyed me. Ashley character has some potential, but it was overshadowed by her "racist" attitude and comments toward aliens. Her "citing poems every time we talk" really annoyed me (maybe because I don't like poetry). Her dialogues are lame, boring, and forgettable. And for some reasons I think even BioWare didn't bother to work on her. After she joined the Normandy crew in ME 3, she pretty much disappear without anymore highlight until the "romance scene." (which was sloppily done, imo). And her romance in Citadel dlc was even worse, as if they want to push players further away from Ashley.

[Mimitochan]

StreetMagic wrote...

She doesn't even seem to be that religious. I might not like her, but I don't understand the backlash there. Her religion basically amounts to "Hello?! Can't I look at these stars and believe in a higher power?" In every other respect, she's a pretty secular person.

I just don't like her because of personal interaction. Not some abstract philosophical difference. She has an entitled attitude, is insubordinate, and creeps me out by swinging the other way thinking Shep is some kind of living god. I wouldn't date anyone or be friends with anyone who thought of me is such extreme ways. I've had real friends when I was younger who admired some things I did to the point of creepiness too, and I didn't like it then. Both her and Liara are for people who like attention (good or bad).

Well not all characters are appealing to everyone, that goes without saying - and that's actually what I thought was great too.

As for me, I didn't like that as the noob and the lowest ranked, she started to be all familiar with everyone - and it's very likely that i'm on my first PT, i told her right away that she was out of line and left it a that.

However, I just loved the very principle that such a character existed.
It's certainly a lot more intellectually satisfying than everybody's licking Shepard's feet in ME3.

[Zeldrik1389]

StreetMagic wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...
And her romance in Citadel dlc was even worse, as if they want to push players further away from Ashley.

lol.. What happened for Citadel?

Ashley romance? Next to nothing. Every other LI had some "special moments" in Citadel dlc. Not Ashley though. Pretty much the same as non romancing Ashley. I think she's totally fogotten by BioWare lol Good riddance. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

osbornep wrote...

Well, I have to admit, criticizing Ashley for being boring is a bit perplexing to me, seeing as how she's been probabily the most polarizing character on these boards. First off, is it true that she has no combat experience whatsoever? I don't know if that's been established anywhere. 

Until Eden Prime. That's one important point she makes to you in ME1. Because of her family's history, she's transferred repeatedly from backwater posting to backwater posting. She herself is a capable soldier, but she does not have military experience the way that most other soldier-style characters in Bioware games are. If you've played KotOR for example, Canderous Ordo has alot of great military stories he's able to provide the player.

More importantly, though, I don't think it's fair to say all she ever talks about is her sisters or poetry.

Well, it's not so much that it's all there is to her (I should be more clear). It's more that these are aspects of her which are extremely mundane, but have a heavy emphasis. Her family grew up on Earth, her sister went to high school, had a boyfriend, etc, etc. It's the kind of story I could expect to encounter from a stranger just walking down the street.

In comparison, take Wrex's story-a member of a very different species who's life perspective is colored by his belief that his people are dying a death which will take a thousand years because of their own previous actions. He's watching his own people's genocide and paid the price for wanting to help (father tried to kill him).

Ashely has a few ideas regarding religion/politics, which you touch on below, but her backstory alone gives her a much lower level of intrigue than virtually every other squad member who come from dramatically different backgrounds. Ashley is a character that quite literally could have been plucked off the street: looks, history, personality, and all.

Most notably, Ashley has well-developed and controversial views on politics and religion, and these have inspired much stronger reactions than Biotic bootcamp, the ethics of selling Krogan gonads, etc. We've had any number of threads on how racist Ashley is, or what a religious nut she is. Meanwhile, the backstories of the other ME1 characters haven't inspired anywhere near this kind of reaction.

That's true, but I also wouldn't consider controversy to be a sole measure of how interesting a character is. You can find similar debates regarding the nature of the Catalyst...and well, I don't consider the Catalyst to be all that great a character either.

And while I don't mind Ashley having a religion, I can't say I was intrigued to learn more. Mordin (for example) devotes far more time/energy in developing/exploring the grey of the genophage conflict than Ashley does exploring why a God may exist. Correct me if I'm wrong, aside from her comment about "How can you look at this world and not realize there's something else out there?", does she really ever go into detail on why a God may exist? It's been a while since I played ME1.

I barely remembered the whole biotic bootcamp story. As far as the loyalty missions go, it's a fair point, with the caveat that I think Bioware had very mixed success with these missions, often returning to the same tired tropes (i.e. daddy issues) with alarming regularity.

I could see it. Between Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Thane, and Samara (kinda), you do have a million and one daddy issues. But they're all far more intriguing (imo) regardless, especially because each respective daddy issue gives the player a very different role. Helping Samara hunt down her daughter feels very different than helping Thane stop his son's assassination attempt.

The result isn't something you have to like, but I'd hardly call it boring.

I mean, you certainly wouldn't. But the thing about labeling something as boring is, it's completely subjective. I think Lord of the Rings is boring, much like I find poetry boring. Other people disagree.

Note: Just to be clear, I'm not saying Ashley is only about poetry, but that there's no scale to measure boring vs. exciting on.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 16 juin 2013 - 09:52 .

[pamig107]

If one would think about it, IMO the "badass" characters fit quite well in ME2. Cerberus made the dossier for that Suicide Mission. It was something very crucial and success was of utmost importance. So more or less, it would make sense that the ME2 cast be there; the deadliest assassin, the scientist, the justicar, etc. (If I wanted things to be done, I need people who can really finish the job.)

BTW, about Ashley, it really sounds off that "everyone hates her"; I don't.
•Boring (poetry, sisters, religion) Well, you can't expect her to talk about things she has no knowabouts or experience. She's not like Wrex that's witnessing his race's genocide. :/

[BaladasDemnevanni]

pamig107 wrote...

BTW, about Ashley, it really sounds off that "everyone hates her"; I don't.
•Boring (poetry, sisters, religion) Well, you can't expect her to talk about things she has no knowabouts or experience. She's not like Wrex that's witnessing his race's genocide. :/

It's not that I expect her to talk about things she has no knowledge of. It's that what she does have knowledge of I have self-admitted little interest in and consider it too mundane for a sci-fi epic. I'm arguing that Wrex's genocide makes him far more interesting to interact with than Ashley's family problems.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 16 juin 2013 - 10:53 .

[ryn_wolf]

I actually liked Ashley's character all the other squad mates just accept Shepard..With Ash you have to prove to her your trustworthy and as far as ash's attitude that's just who she is love it or hate it that's just how she rolls

[Artifex_Imperius]

^ i didn't know there were so many female players in mass effect. LoL

[Iakus]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Zeldrik1389 wrote...
And her romance in Citadel dlc was even worse, as if they want to push players further away from Ashley.

lol.. What happened for Citadel?

Ashley romance? Next to nothing. Every other LI had some "special moments" in Citadel dlc. Not Ashley though. Pretty much the same as non romancing Ashley. I think she's totally fogotten by BioWare lol Good riddance. 

Her "romance" content is Shepard making a crude pass at her after doing a few shots.  Yay, I guess.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I don't hate Ashley.


I was a fan of her character in ME1. I give her a pass for ME2. I blame the writers for her character regression in ME3.

[GreatBlueHeron]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Because she's straight, believes in God, is conservative and ****. And that is a bad thing these days because, you know, it's a bad thing.

Hardly.  The majority group you just described has more freedom and legal rights in the USA than any other group.
But, you know.......ebil gay atheists like myself really are trying to take over the world.  Mwah ha ha ha HA!

Modifié par GreatBlueHeron, 17 juin 2013 - 01:50 .

[Steelcan]

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

I won't abandon Ashley, even if Bioware has

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

I won't abandon Ashley, even if Bioware has

.  I didnt abandon her, I left her to defend a position of critical importance.  Her sacrifice was honored in the coming empire.


 And im amazed others didnt follow suit.  Shes so annoying!