422 réponses à ce sujet

[Mimitochan]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

^ i didn't know there were so many female players in mass effect. LoL

What's that supposed to mean and how is that relevant to the current topic?

[CptData]

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

I won't abandon Ashley, even if Bioware has

That's the spirit that keeps the world running

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

Guess people just hated Kaidan more.

[Bleachrude]

I guess I'm the only one that was neutral to her in ME1 but actually likes her in ME3?

Conversely, I'm neutral to kaidan in Me1 and STILL neutral to him in ME3.

(I don't hate any of the squadmates...may not like ALL of them but I'm at least neutral )

[Made Nightwing]

I was surprised to find out that in my circle of friends (read: people who don't use the BSN) Ashley was quite popular as a romance interest and character. Further to that, I've observed that to anyone not an obsessive 17 year old Tali fanboy in the throes of puberty (read: Steelcan), Ashley is quite an appealing character.

Perhaps it might be fair to say, OP, that the type of people to whom a character like Ashley has some meaning are not the type to spend thousands of hours on the BSN. Realistically, OP, you should note that at least thirty percent of the BSN are Tali fans (a fanbase that is notorious for being somewhat...defensive), another good forty percent are Liara fans (I am an honestly not going to go there), and a goodly remainder are Miranda fans (a fanbase that is surprisingly open-minded with everyone else but themselves)

Shipping fandom has always been an interesting societal phenomenon, since before the wars of the Mary Jane/Gwen Stacy fandoms. Perhaps Ash is one of those characters that you just have to be open-minded to love? I pretty much like every character in the game (even the ones I'm probably supposed to hate) and have never understood the ship-to-ship combat.

[Made Nightwing]

Steelcan wrote...

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

I won't abandon Ashley, even if Bioware has

.  I didnt abandon her, I left her to defend a position of critical importance.  Her sacrifice was honored in the coming empire.


 And im amazed others didnt follow suit.  Shes so annoying!

You need a grammar filter. It's impossible to take you seriously when you can't properly form words like 'I'm' and 'She's'. Tali won't give you sex if you can't whine with correct English.

[Made Nightwing]

o Ventus wrote...

CptData wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Frankly, the most disappointing part of ME3 (to me) was how she was treated by the game's writers. It's basically like they decided they were going to write for her haters instead of her fans.

A thought I never had, but feels plausible. Sometimes.

Man, I -really- missed Chris L'Etoiles work. Thane wasn't the same anymore, Ash was not even Ash.

Who wrote nu-Ashley, anyway?

Chris L'Etoile was probably my favorite writer on the team along with Patrick Weekes.

Alas, like Miranda, we lost Ashley to Jay. I was always infuriated that he couldn't think up anything original to do with either character.

It was like 'Hey, hmm, I've got two strong female characters here, what should I do with them? Hey, I know, in previous games they've both cared about their sisters, so I'll just do that again, should work, right?'

Don't get me wrong, Miranda was tolerable in ME3, like most of Ashley's content. Ashley's outstanding moments were her rescue of a romanced Shepard in Citadel, her radio chatter with Tali (which I had to go to enormous lengths to get), her commentary on Eden Prime and the Tuchanka Bomb mission, her romance scene (which I count as probably the best in ME3 if you weigh it all up) and her farewell on Earth. That was it. In the whole game. The rest was tolerable (though I agree with her opposition to Cerberus and distrust of Shepard, I had the same doubts).

Miranda's outstanding moments were her Citadel DLC appearances and the last few lines of her farewell on Earth. That was it. After investing a significant amount of time in the character with one of my alternate Shepards, I was infuriated that that was all I got. Her entire plot was one gigantic rehash of her loyalty mission in 2, daddy issues and sister protection. Jay dropped the ball. Frankly, Ash, Thane and Legion all needed Chris to do them justice and we got cheated of that.

[nos_astra]

pamig107 wrote...
If one would think about it, IMO the "badass" characters fit quite well in ME2. Cerberus made the dossier for that Suicide Mission. It was something very crucial and success was of utmost importance. So more or less, it would make sense that the ME2 cast be there; the deadliest assassin, the scientist, the justicar, etc. (If I wanted things to be done, I need people who can really finish the job.)

I thought, the ME2 characters didn't fit the plot and the universe at all. A dozen of random archetypes that got a few tweaks and were tacked on. Diversity fot the sake of diversity. We have no idea what we're up against (one ship of proxy enemies? a Reaper? a fleet of proxy enemies? a fleet of Reapers? a habitable planet full of Collecotrs?) but we're totally sure that all we need is 12 welve badasses and we'll be able to deal with whatever the universe is gonna throw at us.

We're recruiting a thief but we're not trying to steal anything.
We're recruiting an assassin but we're not going to assassinate anyone.
We're recruiting a turian superhero with a secret identity and he ends up calibrating the ship's main gun. 
We're recruiting a psychologically unstable killer with incredible biotic powers and we're damn lucky that we end up fighting individual collectors on foot because otherwise she would have been useless. Not to mention that psychologically unstable isn't exactly a glowing recommendation.
We're recruiting an asari battle monk because she promised.

SERIOUSLY? 

It's no miracle almost all of the ME2 characters' development is about their daddy issues. Without a place in the universe and detached from the plot at's Bioware could come up with.

Had these characters been written to have a point Miranda could have gone both ways (follow or betray you), Jack would have been optional and a risk on the mission (PTSD), Tali's development could have been about coming to accept Legion instead of that weird trial. Can't think of a way to make "recruit Archangel to upgrade and calibrate the ships' guns" not suck.

I prefer the ME1 characters, especially the two humans, Liara and Tali because their presence is somewhat justified (even though I consider the latter civilians who stay on the ship) and Wrex because he was used to introduce the genophage. I disliked Wrex random introduction (oh hi, random violent merc I don't know, wanna join me on my state-of-the-art recon ship because you're so badass). Nothing beats Garrus in pointlessness.

Modifié par klarabella, 18 juin 2013 - 02:02 .

[Mimitochan]

I wish we had much fewer characters, but more elaborate.
The number or possible love interests is ridiculous, makes you wonder if Mass Effect isn't a dating game. In the context of fewer characters, I also would have loved to have more elaborate non romance specific contents with characters my Shepard doesn't get it on with. Also better mechanisms to introduce the romance content - cause everybody wanting to get into my Shep's pants was starting to get creepy at some point.

Not only didn't I understand why the whole "human" crew had to be nuked in ME2, but they did it again in ME3 by discarding all the ME2 characters and introducing YET other love interests.
And please let's not talk about Citadel DLC, what a joke.

I saw David Gaider say that players shouldn't feel "entitled" to be able to romance any character they meet, given Mass Effect's record, he really shouldn't be surprised. I'd expect a Wrex romance DLC any day.

[Mimitochan]

klarabella wrote...
We're recruiting a thief but we're not trying to steal anything.
We're recruiting an assassin but we're not going to assassinate anyone.
We're recruiting a turian superhero with a secret identity and he ends up calibrating the ship's main gun. 
We're recruiting a psychologically unstable killer with incredible biotic powers and we're damn lucky that we end up fighting individual collectors on foot because otherwise she would have been useless. Not to mention that psychologically unstable isn't exactly a glowing recommendation.
We're recruiting an asarian battle monk because she promised.

SERIOUSLY? 

Well everything in ME2 makes sense if you're willing to absorb the very principle of Cerberus/TIM - which I still haven't - Cerberus should have kept its ME1 place and TIm should quit smoking, it's bad for his lungs.

[Nightwriter]

Steelcan wrote...

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

I won't abandon Ashley, even if Bioware has

.  I didnt abandon her, I left her to defend a position of critical importance.  Her sacrifice was honored in the coming empire.


 And im amazed others didnt follow suit.  Shes so annoying!

The BSN doesn't seem to have any grasp of what is annoying whatsoever, though. A BSNer's tolerance level for any given character can be so low that a character can sniffle and trigger a hategasm. "I HATE THE WAY SHE SNIFFLES THROW HER OUT THE AIRLOCK."

I remember when people were saying Kaidan and Wrex were "whiners" even. Ahhh, those were the days. No ending threads, just good old unfounded character hate. How innocent I was then...

[TheRealJayDee]

spirosz wrote...

I love her, pre-ME3.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Nightwriter wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Im still in awe that she lived past Virmire in so many playthroughs

I won't abandon Ashley, even if Bioware has

.  I didnt abandon her, I left her to defend a position of critical importance.  Her sacrifice was honored in the coming empire.


 And im amazed others didnt follow suit.  Shes so annoying!

The BSN doesn't seem to have any grasp of what is annoying whatsoever, though. A BSNer's tolerance level for any given character can be so low that a character can sniffle and trigger a hategasm. "I HATE THE WAY SHE SNIFFLES THROW HER OUT THE AIRLOCK."

I remember when people were saying Kaidan and Wrex were "whiners" even. Ahhh, those were the days. No ending threads, just good old unfounded character hate. How innocent I was then...

LIKE ME!!!

Seriously, I hate Ashley so much that I actually keep her alive and romance her in ME1, just to troll her harder in ME2 and ME3. That's my meta-perspective. In-game, my Shepard knew Kaidan was the better option at everything, but still chose Ashley for his own interests, and more or less tried to justify it by saying it was to also save the Salarian lives.

He knows deep down why he did do it, and it does bother him. He's not bothered by survivor's guilt or a sense of wanting to have died in his friends place or something. My Shepard isn't bothered by those things.

What does bother him is that he knows he made the wrong decision, that he betrayed Kaidan for his own self-interest. The strong biotic, the experienced officer, the veteran soldier, the sensible and level-headed guy who he let die so that he could bed Ashley later. And it sucks even more when things go south with him and Ashley later and Shepard realizes that he really didn't have a grasp on his feelings for Ashley: He really was unsure on where he was with her emotionally, and he knows deep down that he never really loved her. On a personal level, he admired her brashness and her fiery tendencies, but was deeply troubled by her nigh-religious devotion to the alliance and her attitudes towards humanity and the galaxy. Her personal beliefs and outlook were also fundamentally incompatible with Shepard, and were bound to cause longterm trouble for them later if they lasted that long as a couple.

And Horizon comes and goes and that completely shoots down anything Shepard might have ever thought about her. He regrets leaving Kaidan to die for her. He regrets a lot of things about her really. He also is of the opinion that Ashley wants him because, in her eyes, he's everything she wants him to be. The big, alliance stalwart and paragon of humanity, and Shepard thinks that she wants something that doesn't exist. Another part of him suspects she even used his name and her connection to it to get where she is.

My Shepard, and myself, don't personally believe that Ashley has really earned a lot of the stuff that she has. As I said, though he suspects it, he doesn't really know if Ashley actively tried to use his name to get to places or if she just happened to be in the right place at the right time and had someone with a lot of pull like Anderson play the sympathy card for her.

She's also religious, and my Shepard is an atheist. She really rubbed him the wrong way when she made claims that his survival on Akuze was "a miracle" and that "someone up there was watching over him."

Though granted, Shepard would wind up with Miranda regardless of what might have happened with Ashley.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 juin 2013 - 03:32 .

[CronoDragoon]

Hmm, my Shepard is also an atheist but Ashley's faith really didn't bother me at all. Once she said that she respects others beliefs but has her own I was okay with her making religious comments.

I also think having that viewpoint can lead to interesting discussion. I'm really sorry that dialogue with Ashley in ME3 about Shepard dying and coming back to life was cut out, for example.

[Sir DeLoria]

She's the most ignorant and disrespectful character in the whole series.

[CptData]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hmm, my Shepard is also an atheist but Ashley's faith really didn't bother me at all. Once she said that she respects others beliefs but has her own I was okay with her making religious comments.

Not just that. I'm an atheist as well and I definitely had my full deal with religious zealots for two full lifetimes already and still I can live with Ashley's religious side. Because it fits her, because it's not offending, not at all. And who said atheists don't believe in something? I do, it's just not God or any god, that's all.

I also think having that viewpoint can lead to interesting discussion. I'm really sorry that dialogue with Ashley in ME3 about Shepard dying and coming back to life was cut out, for example.

Yeah, that dialogue had some significance to character development of Shepard and Ashley. Actually, I'm still confused the entire Shepard-died-and-came-back never was much of an issue to any of his/her friends. Seriously - returning from the dead isn't a daily business, not today and not in 2186. Still no one seems to have any issues with Shepards "mostly dead" line. "Mostly dead" for two years? "Mostly dead" and returning as a Cerberus operative?
The only one who seems to have issues with that Cerberus story was Ash. And she's hated for that.

[CronoDragoon]

CptData wrote...

The only one who seems to have issues with that Cerberus story was Ash.

Well, yes and no. Others are suspicious of the entire setup but believe in the mission. The only problem I have with the ME2 Ashley conversation is that she really doesn't acknowledge that the mission is worthy, and moreover something the Alliance couldn't be bothered to do.

[Sir DeLoria]

Garrus and Tali join the mission for Shepard's sake, despite their distrust of Cerberus. Ash doesn't seem to care about anything but the uniform.

[P. Domi]

CronoDragoon wrote...

CptData wrote...

The only one who seems to have issues with that Cerberus story was Ash.

Well, yes and no. Others are suspicious of the entire setup but believe in the mission. The only problem I have with the ME2 Ashley conversation is that she really doesn't acknowledge that the mission is worthy, and moreover something the Alliance couldn't be bothered to do.

The Alliance cannot deploy fleets in the Terminus systems. The vast area of space known as the Terminus systems is not part of Council space and it would have been taken as a hostile action. It's a fact: Ilos was close to the Terminus Systems hence the reluctant councillors when Shepard warns them it's a race against time and they must make a move to stop Saren. The Codex entry for the Terminus systems is also very enlightening in this sense.

On the other hand, as we learn in Mass Effect: Retribution and in ME 3, Cerberus finds the Terminus systems lack of control by the Council the perfect location for their secret labs.

Modifié par pablodomi, 18 juin 2013 - 11:13 .

[Jorji Costava]

The problems for Ash start in ME2. It's not that she refuses to join Shepard with Cerberus, it's that she refuses to join Cerberus while your alien buddies from ME1 have seemingly little problem doing so. This forced people to think that either Ash was a totally disloyal jerk, or that Tali and Garrus were both just extreme sycophants willing to overlook Shepard's association with a terrorist organization just to be around his or her awesomeness. Tali and Garrus were more popular, so most people with went the former option.

The reason Ash doesn't join you while Tali and Garrus do is simply that (1) Ash could have died in ME1, so giving her too big of a role could create too many variables for ME3, and (2) Tali, Garrus, etc. were more popular than her. There's no reason, in-universe, for this disparity. It's like asking why Riker keeps turning down those promotions in TNG; the reason he does it is because Jonathan Frakes is a main cast member. Similarly, what happens in ME2 reflects these kind of meta-level considerations far more than it does plausible in-universe psychological reasons why the characters behave as they do.

[thehomeworld]

I think the people who hate Ash more are long time sci fi goers those who've been in this media for a long time and with alot of zeal so they perceive her as racist and her having religious views and not fallowing the Shep bandwagon doesn't help.

For players who weren't hard core into sci fi worlds or were brand new to the media Ash was made for them she was made to represent their views she's not racist she literally knows next to nothing about them probably fell asleep in school when it came to learning about alien reproduction. I'm also not sure how many people took notice of her background Earth born and serving on Eden Prime exactly how many non combatant aliens did we run into on Eden Prime again? None how many aliens live on Earth? According to the codex not many so could she live in an area devoid of them? Sure thing. To say her experience with good aliens is few and far between would be a good judgement to make based on her actions and comments. she is also is very upset her family has been railroaded for 30 years for something her great grandparent did.

I agree with Ash when I first made it to the Citadel I was use to star trek aliens you know the ones were everyone is very human and even have five fingers no matter how strange their heads are so seeing Elcor, Hanar, and keepers I thought for the larger it was monster that was a guard dog who was going to eat me if I stepped foot inside a room the other two I thought were strange pets? So her saying she can't tell the aliens from the animals is exactly how I felt not until my second playthrough did I finally figure out the Elcor came in peace and the keepers just did nothing but blow up if you kicked them, and Hanar were weird floating jelly fish who oddly didn't care that I had some Earthen version of them  in my fish tank.

Her being religious was made to show religion didn't just die when aliens came into the picture as some theorist in todays world would love people to believe. She is also her own person she has her own likes and dislikes she's the only one who has a call from home and gets caught like a teenager and if your male unromanced shep her sister is telling her to go and pursue you!

Her family is like the Quarians being punished for the sake of PC and getting along with the aliens. Would you not feel just as suspicious if your great grand parent did something and you're being tied down by it? Her being suspicious of the aliens on the ship isn't out of racism as some would claim these people fail to see the actual harm in letting unvetted anybody on ships can do ask the Quarians how well things go when they don't vet the people they ask to help them work on the ships with? She and Adams are both doing the samething they had bad experiences with aliens and they don't want flotilla blow up 2.0 to happen on their ship not racist to be practical is their suspicions not nice sure but playing nice and say Tali blows up your drive core because she was a geth spy or a cylon is only going to get people killed. Looking out for your ship when your commander isn't doesn't equal racism. Shep was too trusting Adams and Ash were the counter and a practical one at that.

Everything about Ashley in ME is realistic no sob story she isn't willing to push back on her own merit, no swooning for shep she like Jacob was the everyday person the one who could hold their own publicly and privately she liked shep she just wasn't a fan girl or cosplayer.

Now I agree in ME2 - 3 she stops doing this due to the uncalled for backlash she melds with Kaiden and nearly becomes interchangeable side lining her development for the sake of PC. In the future its ok to be gay but its not ok to have an opinion or be religious oh no!

The Ash we knew in ME should've developed like Adams did we could've been shown her growth from cautious to befriending slowly warming up over the series to the crew to shep's personal twist and turns the cut dialogue from 3 seems to suggest she was intended to go this way.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 18 juin 2013 - 09:01 .

[thehomeworld]

osbornep wrote...

The problems for Ash start in ME2. It's not that she refuses to join Shepard with Cerberus, it's that she refuses to join Cerberus while your alien buddies from ME1 have seemingly little problem doing so. This forced people to think that either Ash was a totally disloyal jerk, or that Tali and Garrus were both just extreme sycophants willing to overlook Shepard's association with a terrorist organization just to be around his or her awesomeness. Tali and Garrus were more popular, so most people with went the former option.

The reason Ash doesn't join you while Tali and Garrus do is simply that (1) Ash could have died in ME1, so giving her too big of a role could create too many variables for ME3, and (2) Tali, Garrus, etc. were more popular than her. There's no reason, in-universe, for this disparity. It's like asking why Riker keeps turning down those promotions in TNG; the reason he does it is because Jonathan Frakes is a main cast member. Similarly, what happens in ME2 reflects these kind of meta-level considerations far more than it does plausible in-universe psychological reasons why the characters behave as they do.

Most agree the writting for this part in 2 is terrible the worst of all the character but really I do not belive it was her writing that was horrid it was actually Shep's writing his answers were not truthful or only half truthful there was no details, no substinence, and if you didn't bring pro Cerberus crewmen shep should've had the options to say I'm being monitored, or they won't let me contact you, or I'm basically being held hostage here Ash so no I didn't contact you, or even just tell her I woke up from the dead 3 months ago and I've been working my ass off since day one to stop the collectors could you give me a little faith here?! Nothing there were a million ways to answer her to satisfay her anger, fear, and concern but BW didnt' do any of this and Ash like Jacob gets the blame for shep being a contrived.

[nos_astra]

CronoDragoon wrote...

CptData wrote...

The only one who seems to have issues with that Cerberus story was Ash.

Well, yes and no. Others are suspicious of the entire setup but believe in the mission. The only problem I have with the ME2 Ashley conversation is that she really doesn't acknowledge that the mission is worthy, and moreover something the Alliance couldn't be bothered to do.

It's only that the "believe in the mission part" is not logical or reasonable.

Others join because Shepard says this mission is somehow connected to the Reapers.
And Shepard says so because TIM said so.
There is really no basis for this until much later in the game.

Without a connection to the Reapers Shepard's team is being asked to believe that it's a worthy mission to prepare a very small strike team to fight an enemy in space whose strength and numbers are unknown for the most part and who will otherwise attack and destroy humanity. Calling this a suicide mission is mildly optimistic.

Not only is the mission design terrible. It all boils down to "will you gladly sacrifice your life for a bunch of colonists who insistes on fending for themselves outside of Council space"? And the answer apparently is a loud and enthusiastic YES. 

Modifié par klarabella, 19 juin 2013 - 03:05 .