204 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

Filament wrote...

This mage threat-

I saw no mages in that scene, did you?

I saw a pack of demons being led by a Dragon, who are acting up unprovoked in DA3.

Probably Flemeth putting her plan in motion.

[Lulupab]

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

Filament wrote...

This mage threat-

Yeah, it was probably a templar who did that. They've clearly been dipping into the Red Lyrium again.

There is no proof mages did that, too much death usually opens the veil automatically.  Even so a group of mages did that who were probably gery warden as grey warden are known to do anything it takes to win a war, nothing is extreme to them. Not all mages should be judged for that.

[LobselVith8]

Fuggyt wrote...

I think the mage threat is exaggerated.  There's an inherent contradiction in the situation.  Either the mages are numerous and powerful enough to resist or they are not.  If they are, then the Templars could never have rounded up and controlled them all in the first place, nor, for that matter, would the Tevinter Imperium ever have fallen. 

Templars can nullify the abilities of a mage, unless the mage uses blood magic. It's why the Chantry of Andraste gave religious dominion over mages to their newly founded Templar Order, created from the pre-existing Inquisition.
 

Fuggyt wrote...

If they are not, then Anders's act of terrorism is a desperately futile gesture than can only lead to the genocide of all mages and the Circles are merely the repressive products of superstition, paranoia, and greed for power.

There's nothing to suggest that the mage rebellion will automatically fail.

[Herr Uhl]

Ravensword wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

It is better to live with certainty than to be an animal without purpose

*snipped picture*

What does the tree have to do with anything?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 13 juin 2013 - 11:44 .

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Since people make up Dragon Age lore all the time (like all mages everyone being "slaves") - we can only really say: The Joining and Wardens are the only way we know of that can kill Archdemons.

Aldenon the Wise, Anders, and pro-mage Hawke would respectfully disagree with this assertion, as they condemn the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery. But we're getting a little off-topic here.

Medhia Nox wrote...

Kill all the Darkspawn - and you won't have any more archdemons. A little more pro-active than waiting for the world ending threat nobody will believe until it's "almost" too late to show up.

That's a little more difficult than you make it sound, considering the taint, the number of darkspawn, their primary location in the Deep Roads, and the existance of two Old Gods remaining out of reach.

[WhiteKnyght]

MisterJB wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The only threat comes from armed and armored zealots who shank people with their swords because "The Maker says so."

I'm not certain I can agree you, I need a third opinion.
Here, let me ask this woman from Redcliff who does she think is the real threat.

You mean Isolde?

That wretched succubus was dumb enough to trust Loghain. Nothing good ever comes out of that man.

Also don't forget, it wasn't Templars that solved that crisis either. It was magic. Their solution would have been to shove a sword into a 10 year old boy who was perfectly curable and leave Arl Eamon in a coma.

[Herr Uhl]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Also don't forget, it wasn't Templars that solved that crisis either. It was magic. Their solution would have been to shove a sword into a 10 year old boy who was perfectly curable and leave Arl Eamon in a coma.

When did the templars voice their opinion on the search for Andraste's ashes? Or are you implying that killing Connor causes a coma?

Edit: Anyway, the Ashes plot was easily the worst one in Origins, so I wouldn't blame them if they discouraged it.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 13 juin 2013 - 11:51 .

[Ravensword]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

It is better to live with certainty than to be an animal without purpose

*snipped picture*

What does the tree have to do with anything?

No clue. I think it's just there to replace the British crown emblem thingy.

Modifié par Ravensword, 13 juin 2013 - 11:53 .

[WhiteKnyght]

LobselVith8 wrote...

That's a little more difficult than you make it sound, considering the taint, the number of darkspawn, their primary location in the Deep Roads, and the existance of two Old Gods remaining out of reach.

It's only difficult because not enough people want to bother with it.

The Grey Wardens cant take the fight to the darkspawn in the Deep Roads because the only support they have is only obligated to help during a blight.

The Grey Wardens also know the locations of the Old Gods. And if the hint in Asunder is correct, there's an Old God sleeping in the Abyssal Reach(Cole could hear the Calling there) with a load of Darkspawn close by.

There's strength in numbers. If the Templars, Mages, Dwarves, Qunari, and warring countries could quit fighting each other and focus on the Darkspawn, they could probably exterminate them.

Mages powers and the Qunari gaatlok could do massive damage to the normal Darkspawn and the supply of Broodmothers.

Templars' powers would be invaluable against the Emissaries and the Tainted Magisters should they appear.

And the large numbers of soldiers in general could clear the way to the ancient prisons for the Grey Wardens to go through to slay the sleeping Old Gods.

[LobselVith8]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You mean Isolde?

That wretched succubus was dumb enough to trust Loghain. Nothing good ever comes out of that man.

Also don't forget, it wasn't Templars that solved that crisis either. It was magic. Their solution would have been to shove a sword into a 10 year old boy who was perfectly curable and leave Arl Eamon in a coma.

Connor is a good example of why a mage needs to be properly trained to use magic, but that isn't a justification for being subjugated by the Andrastian Chantry and the Templar Order.

[MisterJB]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
You mean Isolde?

That wretched succubus was dumb enough to trust Loghain. Nothing good ever comes out of that man.

Also don't forget, it wasn't Templars that solved that crisis either. It was magic. Their solution would have been to shove a sword into a 10 year old boy who was perfectly curable and leave Arl Eamon in a coma.

I mean anyone who lost family in Redcliff because Connor happened to have magic. Had he been sent to the Circle, there wouldn't be a crisis to begin with.
It took magic to solve the problem; a problem caused by magic, in the first place; but it was magic used by Circle mages proving the system works.
Also, while a templar might have killed Connor that would be udnerstandable given there was no guarantee he wouldn't kill more innocents or escape in the time it took to make the travel between the Circle and Redcliff. However, the fact they didn't oppose the exorcism means they didn't disaprove of it.

Oh and you were speaking about orlesians earlier. It's true non-mages can abuse power and hurt others but Connor, a six year old boy who had naught but good intentions, destroyed Redcliff whereas it would have taken a large group of adult non-mage soldiers to do the same.

[WhiteKnyght]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Also don't forget, it wasn't Templars that solved that crisis either. It was magic. Their solution would have been to shove a sword into a 10 year old boy who was perfectly curable and leave Arl Eamon in a coma.

When did the templars voice their opinion on the search for Andraste's ashes? Or are you implying that killing Connor causes a coma?

Edit: Anyway, the Ashes plot was easily the worst one in Origins, so I wouldn't blame them if they discouraged it.

The demon's power kept Arl Eamon alive. Killing the demon leaves Arl Eamon in a suspended state. Also the Templars wouldn't chase a rumor to save an Arl because they don't give spit about the political troubles of Ferelden.

Templars also have f*cked up priorites all around. During a Blight stopping the darkspawn before they destroy everything in creation should be their priority, but Greagoir was actually annoyed by the Grey Wardens need to fight it.

When you save the Circle, Greagoir insists the Templars have to stay to watch the mages, even though every mage in the tower(except a handful of small children) leave the tower to go fight the Darkspawn. So they're literally abandoning their duty just to ignore the blight.

[Nole]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

The Grey Wardens can teach them how to.

Fair enough. Next question: What will you do if the Wardens themselves come after you? They know that mages are necessary, and why. Who's to say they won't turn on you the second you show what you're about?

Question after: What makes you think the Qunari will side with you at all?

If the answer to either of these questions is "I don't know," you might be working for the darkspawn.

I have my persuasion skill maxed my friend, gg.

And that will be enough? Hint, no. Remember that persuade check to stop Paedan from attacking you, where it never works even if you pass? Max persuade won't be enough to get the saarebas answering to you, though if you're willing to volunteer for the Qun I'll just bet they're willing to treat you like you treat mages.

Alright then.
Since my Warden is pro-templar, he would support me. So, with him, I'd have a group of Grey Wardens by my side, if not all of them.
And for the Qunari, I would ally with them to destroy Tevinter with condition to support me with their own mages to help the Grey Wardens. And maybe let them rule the whole of Thedas with their religion.

[WhiteKnyght]

MisterJB wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
You mean Isolde?

That wretched succubus was dumb enough to trust Loghain. Nothing good ever comes out of that man.

Also don't forget, it wasn't Templars that solved that crisis either. It was magic. Their solution would have been to shove a sword into a 10 year old boy who was perfectly curable and leave Arl Eamon in a coma.

I mean anyone who lost family in Redcliff because Connor happened to have magic. Had he been sent to the Circle, there wouldn't be a crisis to begin with.
It took magic to solve the problem; a problem caused by magic, in the first place; but it was magic used by Circle mages proving the system works.
Also, while a templar might have killed Connor that would be udnerstandable given there was no guarantee he wouldn't kill more innocents or escape in the time it took to make the travel between the Circle and Redcliff. However, the fact they didn't oppose the exorcism means they didn't disaprove of it.

Oh and you were speaking about orlesians earlier. It's true non-mages can abuse power and hurt others but Connor, a six year old boy who had naught but good intentions, destroyed Redcliff whereas it would have taken a large group of adult non-mage soldiers to do the same.

Blood magic also solves the crisis. Actually using Jowan's blood magic is a lot easier than going to the Circle because doing that risks leaving Connor alone for an unspecified amount of time that he could have raised another zombie army and wiped out the whole city.

I've never condemned the existence of the Circle of Magi. Having a place for mages to learn how control their powers is fine.

What I condemn is the Templars stripping mages of basic human rights and treating them like animals.  If you treat them like animals, big surprise when they become animals(to quote Jacob Taylor from Mass Effect 2)

Wynne's very existence proved a better method than the Chantry ever had for preventing mages from becoming abominations. Bonding a placid spirit to a mage makes them immune to demonic possession. Anders is a different case because the spirit he bonded with was violent and zealoted, which didn't mix well with his inner hatred.

[The Hierophant]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

It is better to live with certainty than to be an animal without purpose

*snipped picture*

What does the tree have to do with anything?

The tree symbolizes the Qunari's sophistication over the rest of Thedas as they're the only society who knows how to produce toilet paper, and wipes.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Fuggyt wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Fuggyt wrote...

I think the mage threat is exaggerated.  There's an inherent contradiction in the situation.  Either the mages are numerous and powerful enough to resist or they are not.  If they are, then the Templars could never have rounded up and controlled them all in the first place, nor, for that matter, would the Tevinter Imperium ever have fallen.  If they are not, then Anders's act of terrorism is a desperately futile gesture than can only lead to the genocide of all mages and the Circles are merely the repressive products of superstition, paranoia, and greed for power.

The mages were willingly accepting the Circle system as the best thing all around; that's how they were all rounded up, because they put up with it. Anders does not believe it to be the best option, and thus scares the Templars into cracking down so far that the mages have no choice but to revolt.

As for why this didn't happen sooner, remember that Templars are supposed to be able to counter magic. Thus, they can defend themselves from a rebellious mage. A large part of the reason mages are supposed to be scary is that most non-mages cannot do this.

As for the Tevinter Imperium, it never did fall. Not really. It lost a lot of power, due to the Blights (remember that the spawn have mages too) and the slave revolt (which took advantage of this chaos and some well-timed natural disasters), but Minrathous itself has never been breached and it still has territories under it. Make of that what you will.

I make of it that you agree with me.  Mages are not now and never were numerous or powerful enough to resist all the other various powers in Thedas.  Their threat is exaggerated for political and social ends.

That conclusion was completely out of line with what I was saying. Did you not notice that I pointed out that most non-mages can't fight a mage? That the Tevinters fell due to a combination of the Blight, natural disasters, and a slave revolt? That even so, the Tevinters are still holding on?

The first mage volunteers were from Val Royeaux who only thought a Circle would be the "best thing all around" when compared to an Exalted March or a lifetime as a magical Zippo lighter for the lamps in the Chantry.  That's a far cry from suggesting the system was established with the voluntary cooperation of mages in general.  Besides, even if that were case when the Circles were founded, it is not the case now, when children are torn from their homes between 6 and 12 years old.  Most parents are not like Jowan's, anxious to rid their hands of their demon child.  Religious indoctrination goes only so far.  Most parents naturally dread the Templars and many go to great lengths to hide their "special needs" children from them, sometimes, as  Redcliffe learned, with tragic results.  So if mages were particularly numerous in the population, there would already be a significant resistance underground among the parents.  But there's not.

There were two. One exists in Ferelden because it bribes the Templars (or it doesn't, by player choice), another was destroyed by Meredith.

And although Tevinter has not gone away, its decline confirms the point.  Clearly, Tevinter's fortunes have been shaped by the way it has regulated magic, not by the magic itself.  The Tevinter empire was built on slavery which fueled not only its economy but also more powerful (and darker) magics.  So once it declined and could no longer import slaves from lost provinces or depopulated districts, it became too weak to recapture its territories but remained too strong to eradicate.  Whether they were overrun by a Blight, an Exalted March, a slave rebellion, or a plague of nugs is beside the point.  The point is that once they fell they'd never be able to get all the way back up, similar to the strategic situation faced by Justinian and his successors. Byzantium was was impregnable as Minrathous until the invention of artillery.  The magisters still had the spells but they lacked the conventional means to acquire the resources needed to cast them.  Otherwise, if the mages of Tevinter are numerous or powerful enough in and of themselves to reconquer Thedas, why haven't they?

It may be that they should have enough power, except that they've been fighting this whole time. First it was the Blights, then the slave rebellion, then there were the Exalted Marches when Tevinter tried to assert independence from the Chantry as a whole. (The Exalted Marches involved Templars. Minrathous still held. The fact that it didn't outright win notwithstanding, that proves that mages can be dangerous even with the proper countermeasures.) Then the Qunari showed up, which was so bad that the two Chantries worked together to fight them. One Chantry eventually stopped. That Chantry was not the Tevinter one, which is still at war with the Qunari.

It seems that confining lots of mages in one place is the cause of Tevinterism, not its cure.  Consider Rivain.  Numerous mages live outside the Circle there, many of them revered as wise women and associated with the pre-Chantry traditions.  There they are, completely unsupervised or out of control, apparently either too weak, too few, or just too disinterested to invite a Divine March on the abominations and pride demons rampaging through Llomerryn.

They're less "completely unsupervised" and more "tolerated on the understanding that they will cooperate with the Templars where needed."

It is often argued that the Circles are necessary to train mages lest they become abominations which, we are frequently reminded, can level a city block.  But the Circle's idea of training is to toss an apprentice to a demon and kill his body if he loses his soul.  A fairly high percentage have to fail, because otherwise nobody would even consider Tranquility as an alternative nor would the Harrowing be a secret.  Evidence suggests this is the wrong way to go about it.  If as high a percentage of apostates spontaneously turned into abominations as fail the Harrowing, then you'd have a point, because they'd be popping out on a regular basis everywhere in Thedas and twice in Rivain.  But such is not the case.  Flemeth taught Morrigan, apparently by progressive exposure, and she's a lot wiser to the ways of the Fade than wonderful Wynne is.  Bethany and Mage Hawke were taught by their father by methods unknown but obviously effective.  Cruel, useless, and unnecessary, the Harrowing can only persist because mages as a class are not numerous or powerful enough to resist its enforcement.

Hawke was trained by a former Circle Mage. To say in one breath that the Circle does not train its mages to take down demons, and in the same breath to say that Malcom Hawke did, is a really tenous point.

So we agree.  The mage threat is exaggerated. 

If so, only slightly. There is a very real danger. Whether or not its as bad as the Chantry is claiming, I couldn't say.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 juin 2013 - 12:13 .

[Sontemuka]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Sontemuka wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

You don't have to be a lunatic to believe in what you're fighting for. Being oppressed is a valid reason for fighting back.

This. SO MUCH This.
At first I killed Anders and was a Pro-Templar. I always looked for peacefuly solutions but i thought than the Templar's duty was to protect the citizens from the magic, so... "i must stand with them" was what I said. Then I realize... that's all because the opression and control over the mages, they're a kind of slaves.

We lock them all mages because MAYBE A FEW can be dangerous? Common...

How much damage can those few do? Leaving Anders aside, since he's an extremely rare case, what about Connor? Abominations at all are a rare case, but what can one abomination do?

A person can became into a serial murder. So because of that we must lock all the citizens for "just in case" argument?

All this "dangerous cases" you're talking about became with the Templars vigilance. What about without it? If i'm not wrong, Connor's mother don't let him go the the Circle of Mages because of the rules they have. If the rules were different, maybe the Circle Of Mages stop being the "worst horrible place to go for the mages".

[WhiteKnyght]

Sontemuka wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Sontemuka wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

You don't have to be a lunatic to believe in what you're fighting for. Being oppressed is a valid reason for fighting back.

This. SO MUCH This.
At first I killed Anders and was a Pro-Templar. I always looked for peacefuly solutions but i thought than the Templar's duty was to protect the citizens from the magic, so... "i must stand with them" was what I said. Then I realize... that's all because the opression and control over the mages, they're a kind of slaves.

We lock them all mages because MAYBE A FEW can be dangerous? Common...

How much damage can those few do? Leaving Anders aside, since he's an extremely rare case, what about Connor? Abominations at all are a rare case, but what can one abomination do?

A person can became into a serial murder. So because of that we must lock all the citizens for "just in case" argument?

All this "dangerous cases" you're talking about became with the Templars vigilance. What about without it? If i'm not wrong, Connor's mother don't let him go the the Circle of Mages because of the rules they have. If the rules were different, maybe the Circle Of Mages stop being the "worst horrible place to go for the mages".

You're a little misunderstanding of the circumstances. Lady Isolde's reasons are superficial.

1. Isolde wanted to keep control of Redcliffe in her family. Her family ruled Redcliffe during the Orlesian Occupation while Eamon and Teagan were in the Free Marches and their father was in exile supporting the Rebellion. But Connor, being a mage, wouldn't be allowed to inherit his father's title because of Chantry laws and the "Magic must not rule man" tidbit.

That's probably why Maric had problems with Eamon marrying Isolde despite the fact that he's loved two orlesian women in his time. Neither Katriel nor Fiona were both on Maric's side, not Orlais. But Isolde would likely support Orlais should they try to reconquer Ferelden.

2. Isolde was a pious woman, and her son having magic was an embarrasment to her. So she wanted to hide it.(It's similar to families who hide the sexuality of their children or send them away to have children just to preserve their image to everyone else.)

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 14 juin 2013 - 12:21 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And that will be enough? Hint, no. Remember that persuade check to stop Paedan from attacking you, where it never works even if you pass? Max persuade won't be enough to get the saarebas answering to you, though if you're willing to volunteer for the Qun I'll just bet they're willing to treat you like you treat mages.

Alright then.
Since my Warden is pro-templar, he would support me. So, with him, I'd have a group of Grey Wardens by my side, if not all of them.

That's irrelevant to the canon as a whole, which doesn't have a set Warden. It also assumes that your Warden as an NPC will make decisions similar to the ones he made as a PC, and (more relevantly) will decide as an NPC for the reasons you did while roleplaying him. Your Warden is now under Bioware's control. It's hard to predict how they'll see his motivations.

And for the Qunari, I would ally with them to destroy Tevinter with condition to support me with their own mages to help the Grey Wardens. And maybe let them rule the whole of Thedas with their religion.

The Qunari do not negotiate. Nor is using them a very good idea, especially not at the price you describe. As flawed as Ferelden society is, the fact remains that only someone indoctrinated or else insane would want this for Thedas. Hell, even Orlais has things to recommend it over this.

It seems to me that your idea for how this can be solved is a lot less practical than simply finding a way to make the Circles palatable.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 juin 2013 - 12:24 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Sontemuka wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Sontemuka wrote...

This. SO MUCH This.
At first I killed Anders and was a Pro-Templar. I always looked for peacefuly solutions but i thought than the Templar's duty was to protect the citizens from the magic, so... "i must stand with them" was what I said. Then I realize... that's all because the opression and control over the mages, they're a kind of slaves.

We lock them all mages because MAYBE A FEW can be dangerous? Common...

How much damage can those few do? Leaving Anders aside, since he's an extremely rare case, what about Connor? Abominations at all are a rare case, but what can one abomination do?

A person can became into a serial murder. So because of that we must lock all the citizens for "just in case" argument?

Ordinary people can't solo cities. I really wish pro-mages would stop using this strawman.

All this "dangerous cases" you're talking about became with the Templars vigilance. What about without it? If i'm not wrong, Connor's mother don't let him go the the Circle of Mages because of the rules they have. If the rules were different, maybe the Circle Of Mages stop being the "worst horrible place to go for the mages".

Now when did I say I support the Circles as they were? Some of the rules in place are absolutely insane, and really ought to be changed.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 juin 2013 - 12:24 .

[MisterJB]

Damn it, I had a large response written and lost it.

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Blood magic also solves the crisis. Actually using Jowan's blood magic is a lot easier than going to the Circle because doing that risks leaving Connor alone for an unspecified amount of time that he could have raised another zombie army and wiped out the whole city.

Or Connor could have just been sent to the Circle which would have avoided the whole situation.

I've never condemned the existence of the Circle of Magi. Having a place for mages to learn how control their powers is fine.

What I condemn is the Templars stripping mages of basic human rights and treating them like animals.  If you treat them like animals, big surprise when they become animals(to quote Jacob Taylor from Mass Effect 2)

The Magisters of Tevinter did not need to be "treated like animals" to become what they are. They simply took advantage of their superior abilities to place themselves above those without them as anyone would have done.

And therein lies the root of the problem. Education is a good start but all it does is helping to prevent (nothing is assured) magical accidents. It does nothing to even disencourage the malicious use of magic.

On the other hand, even if a mage becomes an abomination or a blood mage in the Circle, the ratio of victims around him/her will be much smaller that if it happened in a marker and s/he will be surrounded by warrior specially trained to deal with him/her.

Is living in a community amongst your own people where; despite having stricter restrictions upon your freedom; your every need is provided for and you even have acess to privileges; such as an education; that are denied to most of the peasantry truly so terrible an option?

Wynne's very existence proved a better method than the Chantry ever had for preventing mages from becoming abominations. Bonding a placid spirit to a mage makes them immune to demonic possession. Anders is a different case because the spirit he bonded with was violent and zealoted, which didn't mix well with his inner hatred.

This is the one thing I agree with Merril. ALL spirits are dangerous.
In "Asunder", when Wynne believes her son has been killed, she becomes a real threat to innocents.
Templars are not the only source of distress in the world. Should non-mages have to rely upon the mental and emotional stability of mages in order to feel safe?

[Sontemuka]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Ordinary people can't solo cities. I really wish pro-mages would stop using this strawman.

Now when did I say I support the Circles as they were? Some of the rules in place are absolutely insane, and really ought to be changed.

Well, then i'm agree with that. With different rules the mages and the templars can solve a lot of problems.

[Peer of the Empire]

Fine, live and let live, a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons

Be less autistic please

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 14 juin 2013 - 12:36 .

[Jackums]

WittingEight65 wrote...

I just need the help of the Qunari (and THEIR mages). 

Saarebas are less adept at using magic than trained human mages due to their lifestyle, so good luck with that.

Then when the Qunari are done helping you, they'll enslave you. This will be exceptionally easier for them considering you just slaughtered all of your own human mages and without magic your military is substantially inferior.

"The greatest advantage that the Chantry-led forces had against the Qunari was, in fact, the Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the Qunari appeared to harbor a great hatred for all things magical. They possessed mages, but these were little better than animals kept on leashes... and none of the Qunari mages possessed anywhere near the skill that the Circle's mages had. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded with lightning and balls of fire and it proved effective indeed."

http://dragonage.wik...Exalted_Marches

Modifié par JackumsD, 14 juin 2013 - 12:38 .