204 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Yes, it's true. Circle mages are more powerful than Qunari mages.

[WhiteKnyght]

MisterJB wrote...

Damn it, I had a large response written and lost it.

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Blood magic also solves the crisis. Actually using Jowan's blood magic is a lot easier than going to the Circle because doing that risks leaving Connor alone for an unspecified amount of time that he could have raised another zombie army and wiped out the whole city.

Or Connor could have just been sent to the Circle which would have avoided the whole situation.

I've never condemned the existence of the Circle of Magi. Having a place for mages to learn how control their powers is fine.

What I condemn is the Templars stripping mages of basic human rights and treating them like animals.  If you treat them like animals, big surprise when they become animals(to quote Jacob Taylor from Mass Effect 2)

The Magisters of Tevinter did not need to be "treated like animals" to become what they are. They simply took advantage of their superior abilities to place themselves above those without them as anyone would have done.

And therein lies the root of the problem. Education is a good start but all it does is helping to prevent (nothing is assured) magical accidents. It does nothing to even disencourage the malicious use of magic.

On the other hand, even if a mage becomes an abomination or a blood mage in the Circle, the ratio of victims around him/her will be much smaller that if it happened in a marker and s/he will be surrounded by warrior specially trained to deal with him/her.

Is living in a community amongst your own people where; despite having stricter restrictions upon your freedom; your every need is provided for and you even have acess to privileges; such as an education; that are denied to most of the peasantry truly so terrible an option?

Wynne's very existence proved a better method than the Chantry ever had for preventing mages from becoming abominations. Bonding a placid spirit to a mage makes them immune to demonic possession. Anders is a different case because the spirit he bonded with was violent and zealoted, which didn't mix well with his inner hatred.

This is the one thing I agree with Merril. ALL spirits are dangerous.
In "Asunder", when Wynne believes her son has been killed, she becomes a real threat to innocents.
Templars are not the only source of distress in the world. Should non-mages have to rely upon the mental and emotional stability of mages in order to feel safe?

1. Yeah cause the Circle was in such a great state at that time. Isolde totally should have sent her only son to a tower that about to be Annulled by the Chantry.

2. Tevinter is a different culture than the rest of Thedas. They're magical traditions are as exclusive to them as the flamboyancy and backstabbing is to Orlesians and the Assassins are to Antivans. Also if you noticed, Tevinter has been around for thousands of years, yet they've never been said to have had the same crisises with magic that the Templar-controlled Circles do. There are no outbreaks of undead hordes or demon armies, despite every magister under the sun(arguably including Maevaris from the comics) using blood magic to advance their political standing.

Tevinter's biggest problem is slavery. If they didn't have that, they'd be no different than Orlais as a nation.(Which is also full of murder, betrayals, and politicial games)

3. Wynne attacked Cole with a staff given to her by the Warden.(The only staff in Origins I know of that could fit that would be the Corrupted Magister's Staff from Return to Ostagar) If you didn't notice, Cole was a DEMON, not a person. They all knew he was likely a demon, they all knew he was the Ghost of the Spire, and only Rhys originally gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Don't forget Wynne was also the one who resurrected Evangeline when she was murdered by Lambert. She did that with her spirit.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 14 juin 2013 - 01:03 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Morocco Mole wrote...

The qunari have been improving the training of the Saarabas if the lore is anything to go by.

I don't recall reading this anywhere. Could you please be more specific?

[Nole]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And that will be enough? Hint, no. Remember that persuade check to stop Paedan from attacking you, where it never works even if you pass? Max persuade won't be enough to get the saarebas answering to you, though if you're willing to volunteer for the Qun I'll just bet they're willing to treat you like you treat mages.

Alright then.
Since my Warden is pro-templar, he would support me. So, with him, I'd have a group of Grey Wardens by my side, if not all of them.

That's irrelevant to the canon as a whole, which doesn't have a set Warden. It also assumes that your Warden as an NPC will make decisions similar to the ones he made as a PC, and (more relevantly) will decide as an NPC for the reasons you did while roleplaying him. Your Warden is now under Bioware's control. It's hard to predict how they'll see his motivations.

And for the Qunari, I would ally with them to destroy Tevinter with condition to support me with their own mages to help the Grey Wardens. And maybe let them rule the whole of Thedas with their religion.

The Qunari do not negotiate. Nor is using them a very good idea, especially not at the price you describe. As flawed as Ferelden society is, the fact remains that only someone indoctrinated or else insane would want this for Thedas. Hell, even Orlais has things to recommend it over this.

It seems to me that your idea for how this can be solved is a lot less practical than simply finding a way to make the Circles palatable.

Ok, then let's just say I will lead this world to its bitter end ;D.

Modifié par WittingEight65, 14 juin 2013 - 01:35 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Ok, then let's just say I will lead this world to it's bitter end ;D.

Good luck. You'll need it when the First Warden greenlights you.

[WhiteKnyght]

Mage threat is as ridiculous as the Krogan threat.

People claim the world/galaxy is safer with the mages contained/Krogan sterilized.

But consider the Darkspawn/Reapers, slavers, pirates/bandits, and whatnot, things are no less chaotic. In fact, they're actively depriving the world/galaxy of a useful resource that could and arguably does solve those problems.

[Sontemuka]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Fine, live and let live, a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons

Be less autistic please

Alright, then the only choices are apply the right of annulment on all Circles and/or kill every mage born and unborn and problem solved. If the mages are "a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons", the Chantry and the Templar Order's existence are senseless.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Sontemuka wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Fine, live and let live, a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons

Be less autistic please

Alright, then the only choices are apply the right of annulment on all Circles and/or kill every mage born and unborn and problem solved. If the mages are "a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons", the Chantry and the Templar Order's existence are senseless.

And now you're on False Dichotomy. Just because mages can be dangerous doesn't mean the danger can't be lessened without resorting to these measures.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Mage threat is as ridiculous as the Krogan threat.

People claim the world/galaxy is safer with the mages contained/Krogan sterilized.

But consider the Darkspawn/Reapers, slavers, pirates/bandits, and whatnot, things are no less chaotic. In fact, they're actively depriving the world/galaxy of a useful resource that could and arguably does solve those problems.

Having Circles isn't the same as not letting the mages handle these threats. Or at least it shouldn't be, if the people running the mage asylum don't belong in a lunatic asylum. Again, False Dichotomy. (Unless the options Bioware gives us enforce it, in which case I will tentatively say that having mages running around unpoliced won't appreciably improve things, what with most of these groups being willing to hire a mage. Pirates irl were actually known for being religiously tolerant and overlooking gender when hiring, since all they cared about was money and results.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 juin 2013 - 01:58 .

[iOnlySignIn]

So by your logic all forms of conflicts are futile.

That's a nice pacifist philosophy. I don't agree with it, but I admire it.

[WhiteKnyght]

Sontemuka wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Fine, live and let live, a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons

Be less autistic please

Alright, then the only choices are apply the right of annulment on all Circles and/or kill every mage born and unborn and problem solved. If the mages are "a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons", the Chantry and the Templar Order's existence are senseless.

Wake up one day and suddenly everyone has magic, including the templars(which technically already do and who use blood magic btw) and Chantry priests, what then?

Do they finally get the hint and embrace equal rights, or do they try and imprison everyone, even themselves?

Because that's exactly where Thedas is heading. Even people in DAII were noticing that more and more mages were being discovered every year. Eventually it's going to get to the point where everyone is a "walking arsenal likely to be possessed by demons".

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Sontemuka wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Fine, live and let live, a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons

Be less autistic please

Alright, then the only choices are apply the right of annulment on all Circles and/or kill every mage born and unborn and problem solved. If the mages are "a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons", the Chantry and the Templar Order's existence are senseless.

Wake up one day and suddenly everyone has magic, including the templars(which technically already do and who use blood magic btw) and Chantry priests, what then?

Do they finally get the hint and embrace equal rights, or do they try and imprison everyone, even themselves?

Because that's exactly where Thedas is heading. Even people in DAII were noticing that more and more mages were being discovered every year. Eventually it's going to get to the point where everyone is a "walking arsenal likely to be possessed by demons".

At which point abominations, while more likely to occur, are severely less of a threat due to everyone having at least a little magic. (If this does happen, which your evidence doesn't exactly prove is inevitable.)

[Nole]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Sontemuka wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Fine, live and let live, a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons

Be less autistic please

Alright, then the only choices are apply the right of annulment on all Circles and/or kill every mage born and unborn and problem solved. If the mages are "a bunch of walking arsenals likely to be possessed by demons", the Chantry and the Templar Order's existence are senseless.

Wake up one day and suddenly everyone has magic, including the templars(which technically already do and who use blood magic btw) and Chantry priests, what then?

Do they finally get the hint and embrace equal rights, or do they try and imprison everyone, even themselves?

Because that's exactly where Thedas is heading. Even people in DAII were noticing that more and more mages were being discovered every year. Eventually it's going to get to the point where everyone is a "walking arsenal likely to be possessed by demons".

Equal rights, obviously.

[Dave of Canada]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Wake up one day and suddenly everyone has magic, including the templars(which technically already do and who use blood magic btw) and Chantry priests, what then?

The weak ones become possessed ravaging entire communities across Thedas, the stronger ones defend themselves from demons and submit themselves to the Circle of Magi who are the only ones who have any education regarding magic leading to an empowered Circle of Magi ruling the nations of Thedas with the strongest mages rising to the top.

Thus we've got Ancient Tevinter 2.0

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 juin 2013 - 02:07 .

[Dave of Canada]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Kill myself

Don't kill yourself, that's no fun. Make someone else kill you using blood magic, have them framed for murder!

[LobselVith8]

Ravensword wrote...

Yes, it's true. Circle mages are more powerful than Qunari mages.

Considering the Qunari treat them like animals, it's not surprising.

[Medhia Nox]

@LobselVith8: So you basically just said that Circle mages are NOT treated like animals.

If Circle mages are more powerful than Qunari mages.
And the Qunari mages are weaker because they are treated like animals.
Then Circle mages could not also be treated like animals.

We agree about something - I feel a connection.

[Jackums]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: So you basically just said that Circle mages are NOT treated like animals.

If Circle mages are more powerful than Qunari mages.
And the Qunari mages are weaker because they are treated like animals.
Then Circle mages could not also be treated like animals.

We agree about something - I feel a connection.

It was hardly an absolute statement. The Circle mages can most certainly be treated like animals, albeit not as harshly as the saarebas are treated by the Qunari. There are degrees of severity.

[Nightdragon8]

JackumsD wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: So you basically just said that Circle mages are NOT treated like animals.

If Circle mages are more powerful than Qunari mages.
And the Qunari mages are weaker because they are treated like animals.
Then Circle mages could not also be treated like animals.

We agree about something - I feel a connection.

It was hardly an absolute statement. The Circle mages can most certainly be treated like animals, albeit not as harshly as the saarebas are treated by the Qunari. There are degrees of severity.

yes because of one templar wanting to make sex slaves of female mages make all templars evil... lets do this with mages as well, because Anders blew up the chantery mages are all evil because of 1 man. lets appy this to "normal" people Because logain got the king killed, and made a coup, and took over the kingdom. Thus all men are evil, because of Marjolaine is a backstabing paroind lunitc all women are backstabing paroid lunitics...

that kind of logic gets us no where....

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: So you basically just said that Circle mages are NOT treated like animals.

If Circle mages are more powerful than Qunari mages.
And the Qunari mages are weaker because they are treated like animals.
Then Circle mages could not also be treated like animals.

We agree about something - I feel a connection.

It was hardly an absolute statement. The Circle mages can most certainly be treated like animals, albeit not as harshly as the saarebas are treated by the Qunari. There are degrees of severity.

yes because of one templar wanting to make sex slaves of female mages make all templars evil... lets do this with mages as well, because Anders blew up the chantery mages are all evil because of 1 man. lets appy this to "normal" people Because logain got the king killed, and made a coup, and took over the kingdom. Thus all men are evil, because of Marjolaine is a backstabing paroind lunitc all women are backstabing paroid lunitics...

that kind of logic gets us no where....

Could you explain how that answers the previous post, please? 

[DKJaigen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Wake up one day and suddenly everyone has magic, including the templars(which technically already do and who use blood magic btw) and Chantry priests, what then?

The weak ones become possessed ravaging entire communities across Thedas, the stronger ones defend themselves from demons and submit themselves to the Circle of Magi who are the only ones who have any education regarding magic leading to an empowered Circle of Magi ruling the nations of Thedas with the strongest mages rising to the top.

Thus we've got Ancient Tevinter 2.0

Good because the current mundane kingdoms suck

[Lotion Soronarr]

hhh89 wrote...
He's talking about the Joining, where mages are needed.
edit:

False.

Joining = drinking archdemon blood

If no archdemon blood is availalbe, THEN drinking darkspawn blood who's potency has been boosted (by lyrium or magic I belive)

As long as you have archdemon blood, no mages are necessary....and archdemons have a LOT of blood in them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

thats1evildude wrote...

This is the glorious new world that Anders made possible. At last, no more pretending that a compromise was possible. If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a mage's face forever.

I'm going to deviant art to submission that image.
It has ot be made.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 juin 2013 - 07:05 .