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Who has the most plot armor?


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#301
remydat

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David7204 wrote...

Liara asked for the armor as a keepsake when she delivered the body to Cerberus. Problem solved.


If you are talking about what Eck and I were discussing, that still does not explain how Legion ends up with a piece of armor that he found at the crash site. 

Let me guess Liara or her team removed the N7 armor while at the crash site, left it there, and then she asked Ceberus to keep a piece of his armor despite the fact that under this scenario she had a perfectly good piece of armor already in the N7 armor that was left at the crash site?

Makes little sense.  The intent seems to be that the armor was separated during the fall.  Let's be real, the writers just went with the fall from space because they felt it made for a cooler story which I actually don't mind despite it being a plot hole.

Modifié par remydat, 16 juin 2013 - 05:30 .


#302
Anthadlas

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remydat wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask you a question.

What do you think would happen, exactly, if you had a rocket that had just enough power to exit Earth's atmosphere? Basically, it's at rest on the edge of space. According to you, it can't reenter Earth's atmosphere because it is moving fast enough. So what do you think happens to it?


No anything in orbit is still technically falling.  It just has enough velocity to not fall to the ground.  Over a period of time gravity slowly shrinks the orbit and slows it down so that sooner or later it drops below orbital velociy and falls to the earth.  Thus, for example, the moon is slowly being pulled closer to the earth all the time.

However, as gravity pulls and you come in contact with the atmosphere, you heat up which is why the vast majority of objects burn up before hitting the ground.  Again, not sure how his armor was broken up but we are suppose to pretend that Shep did not burn up or hit the ground with enough velocity to break bones, destory organs and tissue, and rip flesh apart?

I mean honestly, what are you saying?


Gravity does not shrink an orbit, if an object has enough speed so that it's falling arc is shallower than the earth's curvature it will remain in orbit untill an outside force interacts with it and slows it's speed.

The Moon is not being pulled closer to the earth, that is rubbish, It is outside the atmosphere and therefore is not being slowed down and the tidal forces of the earth are actually propelling it and causing it to move further away.

As Shepards body comes into contact with the atmosphere his body would actually slow down due to the increased resistance and would only fall at terminal velocity with isn't actually that fast, a man managed to fall from 33,000 feet without a parachute and actually survived the fall.

Considering Shepard is wearing armor that protects from extreme heat and radiation, as well as kinetic barriers that protect from projectiles accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light and the fact he wasn't even alive when he hit the surface, all his armor had to do was keep his body intact.

There is no proof Shepard's armour shattered when it hit the floor, just because Liara and Legion have seperate parts doesn't mean it wasn't cut apart to remove Shepards body from it.

Also we have seen that Cerberus created a Shepard clone to use for spare parts, due to technological advances it would be possible to reconstruct Shepards body from just a fragment of it, even just a severed head so long as they had his DNA, We all know his head survived impact as Miranda tells us and the N7 helmet is found intact.

With a budget of several billion credits I don't think it would be too hard to rebuild him from whatever survived.

Modifié par Wraith 02, 16 juin 2013 - 01:01 .


#303
Nightdragon8

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themikefest wrote...

The way T'soni is presented in the Shadow Busted dlc is she is no friend of mine. Nor will she ever be.

The worst part is Shepard can't ask her why she didn't tell anyone the body was given to Cerberus, why she took the armor and what was she doing with Shepard's DNA. Or even why the last two years she wasn't trying to find a way to stop the reapers.


She didn't tell anyone Shepard's remains was given to Cerberus because she knew morons like Verner would gladly go join and give Cerberus undo credit.  Isn't kind of obvious why she took the armor?? She has/had a crush on Shepard, and wanted something to remember him by, (and don't say the dog tags, Hackett was the one who had them for the last 2 years.)

??? Shepard's DNA??? what the hell are you talking about? you mean the "gift" ? So she did a vuclan mind meld and shared her experinces with him... (and so what if she took his DNA in the process, if she wants a love child so be it) 

Cause she was wondering why the Shadow Broker, arugeablely the post powerful person in the galaxy was working for the Reapers... also its not like she could just walk into the Mars place and say "Let me see the data bank" and freely given access to it. Also not to mention if the Shadow broker was out there still, anything she finds would have been reported to the Reapers anyway.

So yes the Shadow Broker was something that needed to be taken under control.

#304
themikefest

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Nightdragon8 wrote...

themikefest wrote...

The way T'soni is presented in the Shadow Busted dlc is she is no friend of mine. Nor will she ever be.

The worst part is Shepard can't ask her why she didn't tell anyone the body was given to Cerberus, why she took the armor and what was she doing with Shepard's DNA. Or even why the last two years she wasn't trying to find a way to stop the reapers.


She didn't tell anyone Shepard's remains was given to Cerberus because she knew morons like Verner would gladly go join and give Cerberus undo credit.  Isn't kind of obvious why she took the armor?? She has/had a crush on Shepard, and wanted something to remember him by, (and don't say the dog tags, Hackett was the one who had them for the last 2 years.)

??? Shepard's DNA??? what the hell are you talking about? you mean the "gift" ? So she did a vuclan mind meld and shared her experinces with him... (and so what if she took his DNA in the process, if she wants a love child so be it) 

Cause she was wondering why the Shadow Broker, arugeablely the post powerful person in the galaxy was working for the Reapers... also its not like she could just walk into the Mars place and say "Let me see the data bank" and freely given access to it. Also not to mention if the Shadow broker was out there still, anything she finds would have been reported to the Reapers anyway.

So yes the Shadow Broker was something that needed to be taken under control.

Why would she tell Verner? As far as the dogtags go, it was a lame story about how it passed different hands before it ended up in his. Why would he give them to her? Why not give them to Anderson so he can give them to Shepard? Or why didn't he give the dogtags to Shepard himself?

What the he** are you talking about? What gift? I don't remember a gift in the dlc. And your ok for her wanting a love child without your permission? More power to you. 

With Hackett giving her the dogtags, I'm sure he would've gave her access to the Archives. She could also visit Eden Prime to see if there was more than just the beacon that was found.. Revisit Ilos to see if there is anything else worth finding.

#305
remydat

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Wraith 02 wrote...

Gravity does not shrink an orbit, if an object has enough speed so that it's falling arc is shallower than the earth's curvature it will remain in orbit untill an outside force interacts with it and slows it's speed.

The Moon is not being pulled closer to the earth, that is rubbish, It is outside the atmosphere and therefore is not being slowed down and the tidal forces of the earth are actually propelling it and causing it to move further away.

As Shepards body comes into contact with the atmosphere his body would actually slow down due to the increased resistance and would only fall at terminal velocity with isn't actually that fast, a man managed to fall from 33,000 feet without a parachute and actually survived the fall.

Considering Shepard is wearing armor that protects from extreme heat and radiation, as well as kinetic barriers that protect from projectiles accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light and the fact he wasn't even alive when he hit the surface, all his armor had to do was keep his body intact.

There is no proof Shepard's armour shattered when it hit the floor, just because Liara and Legion have seperate parts doesn't mean it wasn't cut apart to remove Shepards body from it.

Also we have seen that Cerberus created a Shepard clone to use for spare parts, due to technological advances it would be possible to reconstruct Shepards body from just a fragment of it, even just a severed head so long as they had his DNA, We all know his head survived impact as Miranda tells us and the N7 helmet is found intact.

With a budget of several billion credits I don't think it would be too hard to rebuild him from whatever survived.


Yeah, we went through the whole orbit thing already.

You could drop 1 million people from space and 999,999 thousand of their bodies will probably be destoryed beyond repair and yeah maybe 1 of those people will fall just right where their body survives intact.  Of course, this is all theoretical because this experiment has never been performed but pretending like what we saw in the game was the most believable outcome is silly.  Just like sure I am sure someone has survived 2 bullets to the face before but doesn't make it any less ridiculous if Shep does it as part of a cut scene.

As to your other points, Shep's armor is not built to withstand all types of extreme heat.  There are points in the game with vents, fires, or lava where you can't just stand up in them because it is obviously too hot.  In addition, as I said, I believe there is still internal concussive force because your internal organs get slammed against your body if you were to fall from such a height.  Your brain for example would get slammed against your skull and you brain is one of the softest organs while your skull is one of the hardest bones. 

There is no proof Liara or anyone cut the armor off.  It is pretty absurd to cut the armor off on Alchera and expose his body to the atmosphere there which is not like Earth.  It is full of methane and could have all sorts of microorganisms that you don't want contaminating the body.

And they created clone Shep for spare body parts but Clone Shep has all his body parts so they clearly did not use him.  Let me guess they used another clone Shep but just didn't tell us?  As for the DNA bit, are we suppose to believe that Clone Shep has no memeries of being Shep but that if they rebuilt Shep from just his head that magically his brain which is one of the softest organs in the body sustained absolutely no damage when it slammed against his skull when he fell?

Look, the simple fact is to believe this story you basically have to take all these individual events each with a very low probability of happenening and then put them all together.  If you assigned a probability to each of these separate events and then multipled them so that you could calculate the probability of each of these events all happening together in order for Shep's body to survive, I think you end up with something that is beyond even a miracle.  Might as well have a virgin birth and let Shep let turn water into wine while we are at it.

Modifié par remydat, 16 juin 2013 - 04:50 .


#306
Bleachrude

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remydat wrote...

Look, the simple fact is to believe this story you basically have to take all these individual events each with a very low probability of happenening and then put them all together.  If you assigned a probability to each of these separate events and then multipled them so that you could calculate the probability of each of these events all happening together in order for Shep's body to survive, I think you end up with something that is beyond even a miracle.  Might as well have a virgin birth and let Shep let turn water into wine while we are at it.


While I do agree with you remydat...It's kind of hard to deny that Shepard IS NOT some sort of messiah figure...In the Leviathan DLC, the leviathans themselves are puzzled because while humans are nothing special, Shepard clearly is and they can't figure out WHY.

Here's a few "after the end" pictures for ME3 (I jsut love posting these...)
Image IPB
(asari art- synthesis ending)

Image IPB
(quarian quilt painting - control)

Image IPB
(Krogan cave drawing - destroy)

Here's the thing about it....each one I can EASILY see as things that actually happen..each having Shepard as a messiah type figure...Personally, I could do without it, but that's what you get when you have one singular character that literally changes the galaxy around them across 3 games - especially in a perfect playthrough

#307
s-jay2676

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@themikefest

I'd like to know when did you start to hate Liara? What triggered it? Was it the fact, that she recovered Shepard's body or was it something different?

#308
remydat

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Bleach,

Oh I don't disagree he is a bit of a messiah figure right down to his ressurection. The OP was talking about plot armor and just pointing out Shep has a lot of it. In the end, I don't really care because I enjoy the game for what it is ie a game.

#309
Hazegurl

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themikefest wrote...

Why would she tell Verner? As far as the dogtags go, it was a lame story about how it passed different hands before it ended up in his. Why would he give them to her? Why not give them to Anderson so he can give them to Shepard? Or why didn't he give the dogtags to Shepard himself?

What the he** are you talking about? What gift? I don't remember a gift in the dlc. And your ok for her wanting a love child without your permission? More power to you. 

With Hackett giving her the dogtags, I'm sure he would've gave her access to the Archives. She could also visit Eden Prime to see if there was more than just the beacon that was found.. Revisit Ilos to see if there is anything else worth finding.


Liara's gift was given to Shepard at the end of ME3 when Shepard was on Earth talking to everyone. If you talk to Liara she asks to give you a gift which is her doing her little mind melding thing with him.

I also feel that liara should have been spending her information broker time looking up ways to stop the reapers. But since I now skip LOTSB(came free with my game). She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.

#310
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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Bleachrude wrote...


Here's a few "after the end" pictures for ME3 (I jsut love posting these...)


Huh, those are cool. Never seen them. Looks like the same artist who does the narration panels for DAO and DA2.
 I'd love to see a whole animated sequence like it.

#311
The Night Mammoth

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Hazegurl wrote...

I also feel that liara should have been spending her information broker time looking up ways to stop the reapers. But since I now skip LOTSB(came free with my game). She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.

Yeah, those things still happened. 

#312
o Ventus

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Hazegurl wrote...

She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.


Yes she does.

#313
themikefest

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Hazegurl wrote...

themikefest wrote...

Why would she tell Verner? As far as the dogtags go, it was a lame story about how it passed different hands before it ended up in his. Why would he give them to her? Why not give them to Anderson so he can give them to Shepard? Or why didn't he give the dogtags to Shepard himself?

What the he** are you talking about? What gift? I don't remember a gift in the dlc. And your ok for her wanting a love child without your permission? More power to you. 

With Hackett giving her the dogtags, I'm sure he would've gave her access to the Archives. She could also visit Eden Prime to see if there was more than just the beacon that was found.. Revisit Ilos to see if there is anything else worth finding.


Liara's gift was given to Shepard at the end of ME3 when Shepard was on Earth talking to everyone. If you talk to Liara she asks to give you a gift which is her doing her little mind melding thing with him.

I also feel that liara should have been spending her information broker time looking up ways to stop the reapers. But since I now skip LOTSB(came free with my game). She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.

I know about the gift in London. My post was related to the shadow broker dlc. If you don't talk to her in the game she doesnt't offer it and when I do talk to her I usually turn it down or I  walk right by her.

Most of my playthroughs I avoid playing shadow broker.

#314
Hazegurl

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I also feel that liara should have been spending her information broker time looking up ways to stop the reapers. But since I now skip LOTSB(came free with my game). She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.

Yeah, those things still happened. 


Have you ever played the game without LOTSB?

Liara's entire story of how she became the shadow broker is different. There is no mention of her ever recovering Shepard's body. Zero dialouge about her saving Shepard. So yeah, skip LOTSB and you get a different story.

@themikefest, Ah, then I can't speak much about a gift in LOTSB. I've only played it like twice and skipped it ever since. lol!

Modifié par Hazegurl, 16 juin 2013 - 09:42 .


#315
David7204

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That's wrong.

Liara will tell Shepard she's the one who recovered his or her body with or without LotSB.

Modifié par David7204, 16 juin 2013 - 09:43 .


#316
lecho_himself

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@David7204
My Liara didn't mentioned anything about the body in ME2 until LotSB.

#317
David7204

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When precisely does she discuss it in LotSB?

#318
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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When you go to her office (before the apartment stuff) and tell her about Cerberus intel, and she tells you about Feron. Without the expansion, nothing about her motivations is there.

#319
David7204

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That's not true. Once you're completed the data mining job for her, you can 'Investigate' and ask her why she's so angry with the Broker. You HAVE to pick the lower investigate option. If you pick the top 'Investigate' option of 'Is there anything else I can do to help you?' or something like that, the lower option will be unavailable. You only get one chance, but it works with or without LotSB. It's also a much more satisfying and informative conversation path.

I've never heard her talk about Shepard's body when she talks about Feron in her office. It must be only triggered if the player didn't take the option earlier.

Modifié par David7204, 16 juin 2013 - 09:55 .


#320
Hazegurl

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Never do her data mining job. Never did it when I did do LOTSB. Her recovering the body never comes up unless I chose the dialogue option to start LOTSB. If you don't pick it or do it, Liara gives you a new story in ME3 and no mention of recovering your body is ever mentioned. At least none of the times I spoke to her. She says she hired a bunch of mercenaries to go after the SB. That's about it.

#321
David7204

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Apparently the idea of her recovering Shepard's body bothers you immensely.

#322
Hazegurl

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lol!! I'm not sure why it's important for her to save every player's Shepard. The story does change if you skip it. Which means you can have either canon. She never recovered my Shep's body in MY canon story.

#323
David7204

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Shepard and Liara are canonically friends, at the very least. Liara knows how important Shepard is, at the very least. That's reason enough.

Why does it bother you?

#324
jtav

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Redemption is always canon. Sorry.

Liara's this weird middle ground. She seems obsessively in love as long as Shepard din't romance her. With a romance, I'd swear she was looking for any excuse to get out of it.

#325
jtav

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As for canonically friends, you can ignore LOTSB. Heck, you need never see Liara at all in ME2. You can outright tell her to keep it professional in ME3 and Shepard is never forced to confide in her, though the game nudges you in that direction.