443 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

No they are not canon friends. I told her to keep it professional. You seem to have a problem with Liara being perceived differently in other people's playthroughs.

[Barquiel]

If you play ME3 without LotSB, the only real difference is that Feron died.

The comics, novels and Arrival are canon.

[jtav]

It's canon that the Alpha Rekay blew up, but unnamed marines can do it.

[Barquiel]

I could be wrong (it's been a while since I've played the game)...but I thought it's mentioned in the ME3 prologue that Shepard destroyed the relay?

[The Night Mammoth]

Barquiel wrote...

I could be wrong (it's been a while since I've played the game)...but I thought it's mentioned in the ME3 prologue that Shepard destroyed the relay?

The dialogue changes if Shepard doesn't do the mission, and in a war asset entry it mentions that marines of the 103rd or something blew it up and their value is reduced as a result. 

[jtav]

Nope. A bunch of 103rd marines do it, dying in the attempt, if Shepard skipped the DLC. Shepard is in custody over working with Cerberus.

[The Night Mammoth]

Hazegurl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I also feel that liara should have been spending her information broker time looking up ways to stop the reapers. But since I now skip LOTSB(came free with my game). She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.

Yeah, those things still happened. 

Have you ever played the game without LOTSB?

Liara's entire story of how she became the shadow broker is different. There is no mention of her ever recovering Shepard's body. Zero dialouge about her saving Shepard. So yeah, skip LOTSB and you get a different story.

Except Liara recovering Shepard's body and handing it over to Cerberus occurs in a comic. Believe what you want, by all means if it makes your story better, but then we're into the realm of being able to make up whatever we want and pass it off as canon because we didn't hear something or see something. 

[Barquiel]

OK...I stand corrected

But the house arrest doesn't make much sense imo, the council allowed me to work for cerberus

[Hazegurl]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I also feel that liara should have been spending her information broker time looking up ways to stop the reapers. But since I now skip LOTSB(came free with my game). She doesn't have my Shep's armor in her creeper case nor did she recover his body and "save" him.

Yeah, those things still happened. 

Have you ever played the game without LOTSB?

Liara's entire story of how she became the shadow broker is different. There is no mention of her ever recovering Shepard's body. Zero dialouge about her saving Shepard. So yeah, skip LOTSB and you get a different story.

Except Liara recovering Shepard's body and handing it over to Cerberus occurs in a comic. Believe what you want, by all means if it makes your story better, but then we're into the realm of being able to make up whatever we want and pass it off as canon because we didn't hear something or see something. 

I don't care about the comic. I'm not spending xtra money on something they should have put in the game if it was important. Since they went through the trouble of changing the story if you don't do LOTSB then it's not my canon and I can fully accept the story Bioware presented to me in game. What are you gonna say next, that Bioware's other version in the game isn't canon cause it doesn't fit some comic?

Oh well, That's what happens when a company puts out different media about an rpg game.

[The Night Mammoth]

Barquiel wrote...

OK...I stand corrected

But the house arrest doesn't make much sense imo, the council allowed me to work for cerberus

Ugh, don't get me started. Biggest problem that I have with the story of ME3. 

[Hazegurl]

Barquiel wrote...

OK...I stand corrected

But the house arrest doesn't make much sense imo, the council allowed me to work for cerberus

Yeah. Arrival makes much more sense for the whole house arrest thing. i guess you can take it as the council wanting to bring you back but didn't want to do it too soon after he/she worked for cerberus.

[The Night Mammoth]

Hazegurl wrote...

I don't care about the comic. I'm not spending xtra money on something they should have put in the game if it was important. Since they went through the trouble of changing the story if you don't do LOTSB then it's not my canon and I can fully accept the story Bioware presented to me in game. What are you gonna say next, that Bioware's other version in the game isn't canon cause it doesn't fit some comic?
Oh well, That's what happens when a company puts out different media about an rpg game.

What 'other version'?

[jtav]

The events of Redemption happen whether you like it or not. Liara recovered Shepard's body and handed it over to Cerberus. You can't control how Liara feels about you, but you can control how Shepard feels about her.

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

The events of Redemption happen whether you like it or not. Liara recovered Shepard's body and handed it over to Cerberus. You can't control how Liara feels about you, but you can control how Shepard feels about her.

Not really.

There's very little depth in Shepard's ability to form opinions about Liara. She's canonized as your friend if you don't romance her.

Liara and Ashley (not sure about Kaidan) are both subject to this. I'm not sure about other characters.

Modifié par o Ventus, 17 juin 2013 - 01:10 .

[Hazegurl]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

What 'other version'?

The different dialouge for ppl who didn't do LOTSB.

[Hazegurl]

jtav wrote...

The events of Redemption happen whether you like it or not. Liara recovered Shepard's body and handed it over to Cerberus. You can't control how Liara feels about you, but you can control how Shepard feels about her.

No it didn't. It's not in my game at all so it didn't happen. I'm not telling everyone else what their canon should be. <_<

No you can't really control how Shep feels about Liara. I've seen complaints about a non romanced Shepard acting like he's attracted to her in the Citadel DLC, forced hugs in ME2. You can only control how close you want her to be to your Shep (Not confiding in her after the dreams, telling her to keep it professional)and of course you can control how you, the player, feel about her.

[The Night Mammoth]

Hazegurl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

What 'other version'?

The different dialouge for ppl who didn't do LOTSB.

What different dialogue? Didn't David already clarify that the dialogue exists regardless of whether you do LotSB or not?

It doesn't matter anyway, not having Liara tell you she recovered your body doesn't mean it didn't happen. Not talking to Garrus about his time on Omega doesn't mean those things didn't occur.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 juin 2013 - 03:48 .

[silverexile17s]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

What 'other version'?

The different dialouge for ppl who didn't do LOTSB.

What different dialogue? Didn't David already clarify that the dialogue exists regardless of whether you do LotSB or not?

It doesn't matter anyway, not having Liara tell you she recovered your body doesn't mean it didn't happen. Not talking to Garrus about his time on Omega doesn't mean those things didn't occur.

No, there is a difference. If you don't do LOTSB, then Liara says that she hired an entire army to track down the Shadow Broker's ship and kill him. How Liara was able to finance the assumedly massive cost of outfitting several dozen mercs with weapons, armor, equipment, medi-gen, and then charting shuttles for all of them to Hagalaz all by herself is never explained -- hence why @Hazegurl is balking as to how it's possible that Liara acomplished the assault without Shepard, seeing as without the Commander, Liara would likely not have been able to get the information needed to find the Borker's ship in the first place (remember, Cerberus gave Shepard that info as a "favor."). Hell, It's unlikely Liara would have been able to take on, or even apprihend Tela Vasir (who is never mentioned again) by herself, and thus would have lost any data she found anyway.
Also, the major difference is that in taking such a massave and militant approch, Liara is unable to resuce Feron in time before the Broker kills him as a final retrubution against her. Shepard expresses confussion as to how Liara got her position as well.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 juin 2013 - 07:15 .

[silverexile17s]

Hazegurl wrote...

jtav wrote...

The events of Redemption happen whether you like it or not. Liara recovered Shepard's body and handed it over to Cerberus. You can't control how Liara feels about you, but you can control how Shepard feels about her.

No it didn't. It's not in my game at all so it didn't happen. I'm not telling everyone else what their canon should be. <_<

No you can't really control how Shep feels about Liara. I've seen complaints about a non romanced Shepard acting like he's attracted to her in the Citadel DLC, forced hugs in ME2. You can only control how close you want her to be to your Shep (Not confiding in her after the dreams, telling her to keep it professional)and of course you can control how you, the player, feel about her.

Well, actually, when you ask Liara what the reason she hates the Borker is - right after the second terminal-hacking quest you do for her -- she responds by giving what is basically a word-for-word recounting of Redemption -- she gives Shepard to Cerberus after taking the Commander's body back from the Broker, who was going to sell it to the Collectors. Feron sacrifices himself to ensure she escapes. Hell, Tazzik -- the burly salarian merc -- is even refrenced by name in an E-Mail between Feron and Liara in ME3.
So, according to the in-game, Redemption is a cannon occourance. It happens behind the scenes, but it's cannon.

Also, I think the fact that Liara is a romance option in ME3 is supposed to hint to her always loving Shepard and never being able to bury those feelings. A romance with her is optional, but I think they were trying to hint at her always having feelings of attachement, no matter who you were with. Even at the end of ME3, she asks to share memories with you -- something usually only done between "close friends" or bondmates. As far as I know, Liara is the only squadmate aside from the Virmire survivor that can be romanced in both ME1 and ME3, and the only one that is shown to have strong feelings of attachment to Shepard in ME2 to the point of trusting Cerberus with the Commander in exchange for a possible ressurection.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 juin 2013 - 07:25 .

[silverexile17s]

StreetMagic wrote...

Personally, I don't care if she's responsible for the recovery. That's fine. I just don't care for the unique sense of immunity and sense of closeness the writers project her with. Hasn't anyone ever had someone have a crush on them like that? It's not cool. You either want to get away or hope it gets resolved into friends zone territory. You don't want crushes to linger. Also, the writers keep assuming I'm one of those people who find her soft/cuteness traits to be endearing. Which isn't the case. For better or worse, I can't help from screwing with people like that. To me, it seems like the writers misread their demographic by assuming this is all fair game. Like we all want cuteness and watch My Little Pony cartoons.

Talking about Tali as well as Liara, aren't you?

[silverexile17s]

Barquiel wrote...

OK...I stand corrected

But the house arrest doesn't make much sense imo, the council allowed me to work for cerberus

Actually... They buried all evidence of your existance. They wanted someone on the inside with Cerberus -- someone they could publicly attrubute to stopping the Collectors, in case Shepard was right about them.

If Shepard is right, then the Commander takes them down, they reveal Shepard is alive from "deep cover" and parrade the Commander as a hero, getting a lot of publiciy for "working so adamately to save human colonies."

If Shepard is wrong, then since Shepard is already listed as KIA, they can bury all record of it and no one will be the wiser.

Of course, Shepard found the third path -- End up being right, but then causing a major political catastrophy by blowing up a Mass Relay and pissing off the batarians, meaning that Shepard's actions are too volitile to claim responcibility for, so they have no choice but to let Cerberus take credit for Shepard's actions, including the publicity of being the ones to stop the Collectors -- which up's their recurtment drive by at least triple and giving them the good press to make public recrutement drives. They go from terrorists to mainstream hero of the hour, and Shepard goes to Jail for it, with the batarians demanding blood from the Council and Alliance for Shepard's actions.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 juin 2013 - 07:33 .

[PMC65]

If using plot armor as "Character shields (also known as plot armor or plot shield) are plot devices ... that prevent important characters from dying or being seriously injured at dramatically inconvenient moments. It often denotes a situation in which it strains credibility to believe that the character would survive."

1) Shepard ... survives Sovereign crash (ME1), survives space flight (ME2) and rubble dance (ME3)

2) Rana Thanoptis ... How did she survive the blast on Virmire if Shepard let her go? (ME1)

3) Garrus ... Gunship ammo to the face on Omega. (ME2)


OT: Spacer Shepard's mom on his/her return ... If someone's child had been labeled "dead" and they reappeared after two years I do not think the parent would be gunning for the person who helped bring their kid back. Not all parents, at least.

Using my parents, they would first yell at me for not calling. Then once I had told them that I had beeen dead and explained what had happened ... both my parents, grandparents, siblings, and so on would want this Liara T'Soni brought to them.

Not to yell at her for not confiding in them two years past, but to tell her that she was now offficially part of the family and a hero to them as well. They would also feel the same about Miranda Lawson. 

If my worst enemy was responsible (small or large) in bringing me back I would be both humbled and grateful. My ill will towards them would be pushed aside and no matter what our differences had been ... words would never be adequate in expressing my gratitude.

I realize that others might feel different though. 

[The Night Mammoth]

silverexile17s wrote...

No, there is a difference. If you don't do LOTSB, then Liara says that she hired an entire army to track down the Shadow Broker's ship and kill him. How Liara was able to finance the assumedly massive cost of outfitting several dozen mercs with weapons, armor, equipment, medi-gen, and then charting shuttles for all of them to Hagalaz all by herself is never explained -- hence why @Hazegurl is balking as to how it's possible that Liara acomplished the assault without Shepard, seeing as without the Commander, Liara would likely not have been able to get the information needed to find the Borker's ship in the first place (remember, Cerberus gave Shepard that info as a "favor."). Hell, It's unlikely Liara would have been able to take on, or even apprihend Tela Vasir (who is never mentioned again) by herself, and thus would have lost any data she found anyway.
Also, the major difference is that in taking such a massave and militant approch, Liara is unable to resuce Feron in time before the Broker kills him as a final retrubution against her. Shepard expresses confussion as to how Liara got her position as well.

That's not the point. Hazegurl doesn't like that Liara recovered Shepard's body and had a piece of her armor in her apartment. By not doing LotSB, he doesn't hear Liara tell Shepard about how Feron sacrificed himself and Liara gave Shepard to Cerberus, and doesn't see the armor in the apartment, so that means those things didn't happen, and whilst I'm trying to keep in mind that's it's perfectly harmless and his perogative if it makes his game better, I still can't help but think it's wierd.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 juin 2013 - 10:46 .