443 réponses à ce sujet

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Guys, I'm sorry. I had mistaken plot armor as just "any character that is almost impossible to kill" instead of characters that should be killed because of the situation that they're in. I ask for forgiveness and apoligise if I offended anyone, and I'll change my first post to mention Traynor not necessarily having plot armor.

I think this quote calls for it. "I MADE A MISTAKE!"

[Kataphrut94]

Going by that definition, one could argue that Liara doesn't have that much plot armour, or at least not much more than most other characters. Since she's nearly always a squadmate, she only has as much plot armour as whoever else is with you in the party at the time. The one time she can die is the conduit run, which is not unique to her.

[Ausstig]

I would say Liara because you can't really kill her off, I was looking foreward to betraying her in LotSB, no hate just thought it would be funny.

[DirtySHISN0]

Liara takes the cake for being most unavoidable.

[Kataphrut94]

Again, that's not really plot armour; it's just that she never gets put in a dangerous situation, at least not one that is unique to her.

[DirtySHISN0]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Again, that's not really plot armour; it's just that she never gets put in a dangerous situation, at least not one that is unique to her.

Thats exactly what plot armour is; being immune because the plot has requirements for you.

[Dieb]

I have a shorter term for plot armor. I just say plot.

As far as I am concerned, there is no "level of vulnerability" in a fictional story which pretty much establishes it's own rules by default. In ME, you don't get to draw your own map, you may choose which path you take, and all of them roughly provide you with what is basically the same journey. Some characters are variables, some are constants, and both types are what they are because their creators intended them to be.

Thus, in my opinion it is in no way bad writing that some characters survive events similiar to some that others get killed in. I really do not understand who came up with a term for this, or even the necessity of such a distinction, really.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 14 juin 2013 - 11:08 .

[Tonymac]

Starchild

[Galbrant]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Guys, I'm sorry. I had mistaken plot armor as just "any character that is almost impossible to kill" instead of characters that should be killed because of the situation that they're in. I ask for forgiveness and apoligise if I offended anyone, and I'll change my first post to mention Traynor not necessarily having plot armor.

I think this quote calls for it. "I MADE A MISTAKE!"

Well in that case Kai Leng on the Citadel and Thessia, Shepard stood there with his crew like the dumbest sack of bricks So Kai Leng can be rule of cool and murder his/her old comrade... and Now apparently we can't destroy gunships anymore... we destroyed one in Omega one game ago... What does this Gunship has that was beter than the Blue Suns Gunship? Oh doesn't matter Kai Leng has infinite shield recharge.

Also the Normandy Crew and Shepard  during that idiotic evacuation scene, Harbinger should have toast the Normandy when it arrived. It would be kinder than allow Shepard go into that nightmare on the Citadel.  

[ThinkSharp]

Plot armor isn't inherently a bad thing. It's a writing device, like anything else.

It fails when it's either too repetitive or utterly ridiculous. Or, apparently, it protects characters you dislike.

The one wearing the most plot armor is obviously Shepard. I don't think many of us are complaining about that. Actually, we complained the loudest when it suddenly fell off.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 14 juin 2013 - 12:05 .

[Cagamelo]

CynicalShep wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Conrad. There is no way someone as stupid as him should be able to live so long.

Ah, but he's not stupid. He's a scientist and expert on dark energy. Or something.

He's like an intelligent person who fell into hero worship. So it clouds his judgement. Like maybe a person you know who's fairly intelligent, but for some reason is mermerized with celebrities or athletes.

"My wife has been very supportive. She even paid for my shuttle ticket off-world".
He doesn't have the street smarts. I know he's a scientist but that doesn't add to his self-preservation skills.

He was lying about having a wife. The first time I played through ME1 I really though Conrad was going to try to kill me at some point and try to take my place, since my character looked a lot like him (weird coincidence) it made a lot of sense to me at the time.

As for plot armor Kai Leng takes the trophy.

[s-jay2676]

The way I see it, plot armor is used to make sure, that a character, who will be an important part of the plot later on, doesn't die in a situation where he should. Therefore, I think, that there are only three cases of plot armor:

Saren on Virmire
Kai Leng on Thessia
Shepard on Earth (although, it could be argued, that the beam doesn't have to kill Shepard, so that one is disputable)

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Guys, I'm sorry. I had mistaken plot armor as just "any character that is almost impossible to kill" instead of characters that should be killed because of the situation that they're in. I ask for forgiveness and apoligise if I offended anyone, and I'll change my first post to mention Traynor not necessarily having plot armor.

I think this quote calls for it. "I MADE A MISTAKE!"

Yet, Liara is still on your list. Would you care to explain why? Maybe I'm overlooking something, or maybe i'm just too stupid, I don't know, but I don't get it.

Modifié par s-jay2676, 14 juin 2013 - 12:57 .

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

s-jay2676 wrote...

The way I see it, plot armor is used to make sure, that a character, who will be an important part of the plot later on, doesn't die in a situation where he should. Therefore, I think, that there are only three cases of plot armor:

Saren on Virmire
Kai Leng on Thessia
Shepard on Earth (although, it could be argued, that the beam doesn't have to kill Shepard, so that one is disputable)

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Guys, I'm sorry. I had mistaken plot armor as just "any character that is almost impossible to kill" instead of characters that should be killed because of the situation that they're in. I ask for forgiveness and apoligise if I offended anyone, and I'll change my first post to mention Traynor not necessarily having plot armor.

I think this quote calls for it. "I MADE A MISTAKE!"

Yet, Liara is still on your list. Would you care to explain why? Maybe I'm overlooking something, or maybe i'm just too stupid, I don't know, but I don't get it.

Idk, I feel like Liara should be killable without low EMS. 

[KaiserShep]

The only real opportunity for Liara to die before the beam run is on Thessia when fighting Kai Leng. Problem is, I don't see a particularly good way to go about this while maintaining Kai Leng's plot armor, which the writers were intent on using to stage the assault on the Illusive Man's base, unless they did the choose-who-lives approach, like Vermire, in which case lots of players would simply just take the squadmate they like the least and always pick Liara to survive.

[Display Name Owner]

Man, you ever notice how Shepard can't die until, like, the end of the trilogy? Ridiculous, man.

[s-jay2676]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

s-jay2676 wrote...

The way I see it, plot armor is used to make sure, that a character, who will be an important part of the plot later on, doesn't die in a situation where he should. Therefore, I think, that there are only three cases of plot armor:

Saren on Virmire
Kai Leng on Thessia
Shepard on Earth (although, it could be argued, that the beam doesn't have to kill Shepard, so that one is disputable)

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

Guys, I'm sorry. I had mistaken plot armor as just "any character that is almost impossible to kill" instead of characters that should be killed because of the situation that they're in. I ask for forgiveness and apoligise if I offended anyone, and I'll change my first post to mention Traynor not necessarily having plot armor.

I think this quote calls for it. "I MADE A MISTAKE!"

Yet, Liara is still on your list. Would you care to explain why? Maybe I'm overlooking something, or maybe i'm just too stupid, I don't know, but I don't get it.

Idk, I feel like Liara should be killable without low EMS. 

I agree, there should've been an option to either save her (that's what I would've chosen), or let her die. But the fact, that this option doesn't exist is not because of plot armor, but rather due to a weak plot in general. That's the way I see it.

KaiserShep wrote...

The only real opportunity for Liara to die before the beam run is on
Thessia when fighting Kai Leng. Problem is, I don't see a particularly
good way to go about this while maintaining Kai Leng's plot armor, which
the writers were intent on using to stage the assault on the Illusive
Man's base, unless they did the choose-who-lives approach, like Vermire,
in which case lots of players would simply just take the squadmate they
like the least and always pick Liara to survive.

Agreed. Thessia mission would've been a good opportunity, and I wouldn't like an another Virmire choice between two characters, either.

Modifié par s-jay2676, 14 juin 2013 - 03:49 .

[s-jay2676]

EDIT: Double post

Modifié par s-jay2676, 14 juin 2013 - 03:48 .

[Usefull_idiot]

Hackett

[o Ventus]

isnudo wrote...

Man, you ever notice how Shepard can't die until, like, the end of the trilogy? Ridiculous, man.

Mass Effect 2
Morinth
Failing Arrival

Seriously, exactly why do people say Shepard has plot armor when there is more than 1 scenario where they can die (outside gameplay)?

Shepard, the MAIN PROTAGONIST OF THE ENTIRE TRILOGY, dies at the VERY BEGINNING of the second game.

Modifié par o Ventus, 14 juin 2013 - 06:17 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Keeper in the corridor of death on the Citadel. You can fill him full of bullets and he just keeps doing his job. Saren blew away a keeper in ME1 with one shot, but Saren was a boss. He had "boss bullets". I always wanted to be a bad ass like Saren and blow away a keeper on my way to the final confrontation.

Garrus in ME2 also has as a better set of plot armor than Miranda. It is awesome.

Kai Leng has boss armor.

Shepard has bullet magnet.

[The Night Mammoth]

MegaSovereign wrote...

[insert character you don't like]

[AresKeith]

Big Boss

Oops wrong game

[remydat]

Shepard who by all rights should have died and stayed dead at the beginning of ME2. Not to mention how he always magically shows up at the right moment throughout the trilogy. And then magically solves centuries old conflicts just cus.

[remydat]

o Ventus wrote...

Mass Effect 2
Morinth
Failing Arrival

Seriously, exactly why do people say Shepard has plot armor when there is more than 1 scenario where they can die (outside gameplay)?

Shepard, the MAIN PROTAGONIST OF THE ENTIRE TRILOGY, dies at the VERY BEGINNING of the second game.

If the game went on without Shepard you would have a point.  However, in all the scenarios above, the only way you can continue is by reloading the game.

Shepad the main protagonist is ressurected after his body is magicaly recovered in tact after suffocating in space, magically attaining enough velocity to enter atmosphere of a planet and then surviving re-entry when by all rights he should have been burned to a cinder upon re-entry or been a puddle once he hit the ground.  

And then to top it off, he is ressurected because some old due with a ton of money whose organization he fought against for most of ME1 magically decides to spend the equivalent of a small army's worth of credits to resurrect Shep because he believes Shep is the Messiah.

And that my friends is plot armour. 

[CptData]

Liara, since she's the only main character that can't die in the entire series except in the very last minutes of the third game.

Also:

- Shepard: you can't complete the series without him/her
- Joker: can't die, but is no squadmate
- EDI: can't die, except in the destruction ending & in the last minutes of the playable part of ME3
- Vega: can't die because you need a minimum set of squadmates
- Garrus: sort of - the only way to get rid of him is the Suicide Mission

==========

Also there's a list with characters "protected" by anti-plot-armor. They can die very easily:

Ashley / Kaidan are here to be named first, since they can get killed thrice:
- Virmire
- Cerberus Coup
- Last minutes of ME3

Tali can get killey thrice too:
- Suicide Mission
- Suicide if you sided with the Geth
- Last minutes in ME3

Modifié par CptData, 14 juin 2013 - 07:35 .