443 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

remydat wrote...

Shepard who by all rights should have died and stayed dead at the beginning of ME2. Not to mention how he always magically shows up at the right moment throughout the trilogy. And then magically solves centuries old conflicts just cus.

Player characters are exempt from this according to the tropes page just because they're player characters. In books there would be other main characters who would have more freedom to act, but in video games it is the player character who must be the center of attention.

[I_Jedi]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

remydat wrote...

Shepard who by all rights should have died and stayed dead at the beginning of ME2. Not to mention how he always magically shows up at the right moment throughout the trilogy. And then magically solves centuries old conflicts just cus.

Player characters are exempt from this according to the tropes page just because they're player characters. In books there would be other main characters who would have more freedom to act, but in video games it is the player character who must be the center of attention.

Also, Shepard is the only one indoctrinated by the player, increasing his intelligence somewhat.

[Steelcan]

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

[s-jay2676]

Steelcan wrote...

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

Now I'm curious. What extremely hazardous situations would those be?

[Steelcan]

s-jay2676 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

Now I'm curious. What extremely hazardous situations would those be?

Virmire, at least one squadmate is not coming back, possibly two, plus Kirahee and other Salarians.  Attacking the SB base, really everything in ME3, taking civilans into combat zones is rather frowned upon as far as I know.

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

As far as forced missions go, she's fought a pretty badass Spectre, a Yahg, and Reapers and Kai Leng at Thessia. Probably missing others. Bioware tries to play up her sensitivity and inability to steel herself for battle and tragedy, yet she makes it through this stuff.

  I recall her being worse than useless in those fights.

[s-jay2676]

Steelcan wrote...

s-jay2676 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

Now I'm curious. What extremely hazardous situations would those be?

Virmire, at least one squadmate is not coming back, possibly two, plus Kirahee and other Salarians.  Attacking the SB base, really everything in ME3, taking civilans into combat zones is rather frowned upon as far as I know.

And how ist that different from any other character?

[s-jay2676]

StreetMagic wrote...

As far as forced missions go, she's fought a pretty badass Spectre, a Yahg, and Reapers and Kai Leng at Thessia. Probably missing others. Bioware tries to play up her sensitivity and inability to steel herself for battle and tragedy, yet she makes it through this stuff.

Doesn't that also apply to Tali, for example?

Modifié par s-jay2676, 14 juin 2013 - 08:54 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

As far as forced missions go, she's fought a pretty badass Spectre, a Yahg, and Reapers and Kai Leng at Thessia. Probably missing others. Bioware tries to play up her sensitivity and inability to steel herself for battle and tragedy, yet she makes it through this stuff.

  I recall her being worse than useless in those fights.

Everyone's useless against Saren, she kills the Shadow Broker, is the only reason anyone has a chance against the Reapers, and saves Shepard's life on Thessia.

Of all squadmates, she's probably one of the ones who contributes most to Shepard's success. 

[Steelcan]

s-jay2676 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

s-jay2676 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

Now I'm curious. What extremely hazardous situations would those be?

Virmire, at least one squadmate is not coming back, possibly two, plus Kirahee and other Salarians.  Attacking the SB base, really everything in ME3, taking civilans into combat zones is rather frowned upon as far as I know.

And how ist that different from any other character?

Garrus can die, Tali can die, Ashley can die, Wrex can die, Kaidan can die, Miranda can die, Jacob can die, Zaeed can die, Kasumi can die, Grunt can die, Legion can die/be sold, Thane does die, Jack can die, etc... Noticing a trend here?

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

As far as forced missions go, she's fought a pretty badass Spectre, a Yahg, and Reapers and Kai Leng at Thessia. Probably missing others. Bioware tries to play up her sensitivity and inability to steel herself for battle and tragedy, yet she makes it through this stuff.

  I recall her being worse than useless in those fights.

Everyone's useless against Saren, she kills the Shadow Broker, is the only reason anyone has a chance against the Reapers, and saves Shepard's life on Thessia.

Of all squadmates, she's probably one of the ones who contributes most to Shepard's success. 

Except you know the one who resurrected him.

And realy anyone could have filled her place without any issues with the story.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Steelcan wrote...

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

Steelcan, you missed my post. It's not Liara. Liara can die. The keeper in the tunnel of death has. You can shoot it 100 times with your pistol at point blank range and it just keeps working. That is some armor. Saren killed one with one bullet in ME1. I wanted to be a bad as like Saren and kill one on my way to the final confrontation, but nooooo. I had wuss bullets in my pistol. Saren must have had boss bullets.

In ME2 Garrus had the best -- Come on -- getting shot up by a gunship and taking one in the head and surviving? That's one tough son of a *****. Then there's Grunt... The Rachni nest? Uh, no way in hell. That's plot armor "Shepard. You got anything to eat? I'm hungry."  In ME3 Liara had some pretty good armor. They all did.

Jenkins in ME on the other hand was wearing "Plot Target". Always give the plot target the crappiest junk you want to get rid of.

Plot armor can be funny, too, like in Oblivion when an essential character falls into a lava pit and continues to take damage. Oh well, scratch that plot line.

[The Night Mammoth]

StreetMagic wrote...

Other characters can die in their forced encounters at times, depending on your loyalty parameters and whatnot. There's no flag for Liara like that. There's no crucial moment where her safety can fall out of your grasp. She's a forced companion, through and through. Not even Garrus or Miranda have this immunity.

So? The only time Garrus can die is on the Suicide Mission, and Liara wasn't there. That's not plot armor. Miranda can die on Sanctuary, but Liara didn't run off on her own and end up being forced to fight through Cerberus troopers and Reaper forces, and then Kai Leng.

I don't really get this whole Plot Armor thing. No one has plot armor in Mass Effect. There's not one time I can think of in the whole trilogy of games that anyone should have died but didn't for incredibly contrived and nonsensical reasons because the plot demanded they live. People were spoiled with the amount of freedom they had in the second game, and now it seems that sometimes, they're not just wanting to dictate what Shepard does, they're wanting to dictate what every other character does. 

[Steelcan]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

In ME2 Garrus had the best -- Come on -- getting shot up by a gunship and taking one in the head and surviving? That's one tough son of a *****. Then there's Grunt... The Rachni nest? Uh, no way in hell. That's plot armor "Shepard. You got anything to eat? I'm hungry."  In ME3 Liara had some pretty good armor. They all did.

Plot armor can be funny, too, like in Oblivion when an essential character falls into a lava pit and continues to take damage. Oh well, scratch that plot line.

Well Garrus can die....... So can Grunt...

And Oblivion was full of those lovely moments, one guy I had with me had his armor fall apart and never reform.

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Other characters can die in their forced encounters at times, depending on your loyalty parameters and whatnot. There's no flag for Liara like that. There's no crucial moment where her safety can fall out of your grasp. She's a forced companion, through and through. Not even Garrus or Miranda have this immunity.

So? The only time Garrus can die is on the Suicide Mission, and Liara wasn't there. That's not plot armor. Miranda can die on Sanctuary, but Liara didn't run off on her own and end up being forced to fight through Cerberus troopers and Reaper forces, and then Kai Leng.

I don't really get this whole Plot Armor thing. No one has plot armor in Mass Effect. There's not one time I can think of in the whole trilogy of games that anyone should have died but didn't for incredibly contrived and nonsensical reasons because the plot demanded they live. People were spoiled with the amount of freedom they had in the second game, and now it seems that sometimes, they're not just wanting to dictate what Shepard does, they're wanting to dictate what every other character does. 

  Kai Leng on Thessia?  He was losing that fight pretty bad, then a cutscene turns it around. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

As far as forced missions go, she's fought a pretty badass Spectre, a Yahg, and Reapers and Kai Leng at Thessia. Probably missing others. Bioware tries to play up her sensitivity and inability to steel herself for battle and tragedy, yet she makes it through this stuff.

  I recall her being worse than useless in those fights.

Everyone's useless against Saren, she kills the Shadow Broker, is the only reason anyone has a chance against the Reapers, and saves Shepard's life on Thessia.

Of all squadmates, she's probably one of the ones who contributes most to Shepard's success. 

Except you know the one who resurrected him.

A billion dollars, protection from the Illusive Man and a crack team of scientists? Yeah, I know, Miranda was involved, but no, she isn't even largely responsible for Shepard's ressurection. 

Also, remember who gave her the body? 

And realy anyone could have filled her place without any issues with the story.

By all means, ignore her whilst fighting Saren, but it wouldn't have made sense for another character to kill the Shadow Broker or find the plans for the Crucible. 

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

A billion dollars, protection from the Illusive Man and a crack team of scientists? Yeah, I know, Miranda was involved, but no, she isn't even largely responsible for Shepard's ressurection. 

Also, remember who gave her the body? 

And realy anyone could have filled her place without any issues with the story.

By all means, ignore her whilst fighting Saren, but it wouldn't have made sense for another character to kill the Shadow Broker or find the plans for the Crucible. 

As I recall Feron did the heavy lifting.

And the Cerberus logs and conversations make it clear Miranda was the driving force behind it.  The first Cerberus guy in charge didn't think it was possible, then comes Miranda.

It would make perfect sense for a character such as Thane to kill him....  And anyone could have found the Crucible, anyone.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...
Kai Leng on Thessia?  He was losing that fight pretty bad, then a cutscene turns it around. 

A gunship wasn't contrived or nonsensical. I hate the Kai Leng fight because it's just bland and Kai Leng is about as threatening an opponent as a feather pillow, but it's not plot armor. 

[AresKeith]

It's Big Boss

[s-jay2676]

Steelcan wrote...

s-jay2676 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

s-jay2676 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Player characters are not necessarily armored. Call of Duty has a habit of killing player characters with regularity.

That said, they are for the most part, exempt.


With that stipulation I'd say Liara has the most plot armor because she does survive several extremely hazardous situations. She cannot die until the very end of trilogy. She is important enough for it to be noticeable, unlike someone like Hackett.

Now I'm curious. What extremely hazardous situations would those be?

Virmire, at least one squadmate is not coming back, possibly two, plus Kirahee and other Salarians.  Attacking the SB base, really everything in ME3, taking civilans into combat zones is rather frowned upon as far as I know.

And how ist that different from any other character?

Garrus can die, Tali can die, Ashley can die, Wrex can die, Kaidan can die, Miranda can die, Jacob can die, Zaeed can die, Kasumi can die, Grunt can die, Legion can die/be sold, Thane does die, Jack can die, etc... Noticing a trend here?

But your examples were Virmire (Garrus survives, as does Tali), Shadow Broker base, where no character dies and really everything in ME3, which Vega, EDI, Javik and Garrus also survive. Now you bring up the Sucide mission, a mission, that didn't include Liara.