172 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

wiccame wrote...

I always wondered why my blood mage couldn't convince Morrigan to give her the ritual and do it herself.

Because Morrigan wants to be the one to carry this child, so that she can influence it growing up? You can't possibly have missed that.

[wiccame]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

wiccame wrote...

I always wondered why my blood mage couldn't convince Morrigan to give her the ritual and do it herself.

Because Morrigan wants to be the one to carry this child, so that she can influence it growing up? You can't possibly have missed that.

I didn't but my warden has no problem convincing any one to do anything....she could have quite easily have done it.

[KiwiQuiche]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Some of you people are weird. Who wouldn´t want impregnate Morrigan?? ?

Probably people that don't like being manipulated

Indeed.

Especially if you turn her down, she just leaves on the eve of battle. As my Warden told her, you ungrateful b!tch.

[wiccame]

wiccame wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

wiccame wrote...

I always wondered why my blood mage couldn't convince Morrigan to give her the ritual and do it herself.

Because Morrigan wants to be the one to carry this child, so that she can influence it growing up? You can't possibly have missed that.

I didn't but my warden has no problem convincing any one to do anything....she could have quite easily have done it. I didn't even need to use coersion to get Alistair to do it.

[TK514]

All that, plus word of god saying multiple times in the years since DAO that no DR = no OGB.

Face it, if the Warden kicks Morrigan to the curb, Urthemiel goes the way of the dodo.

[Lazy Jer]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Some of you people are weird. Who wouldn´t want impregnate Morrigan?? ?

Probably people that don't like being manipulated

Indeed.

Especially if you turn her down, she just leaves on the eve of battle. As my Warden told her, you ungrateful b!tch.

Honestly, I'm with Ukki.  Morrigan gets a kid, I get to live, and the soul of the archdemon gets another chance at life free from the taint that corrupted it as the big ugly dragon.  Even better if the Warden pops off with Morrigan.  Her leaving on the eve of battle would be frustrating (I've never not done the ritual myself) but it could be explained as more then just being ungrateful.

Morrigan's view of life has always been about survival.  Over the course of traveling with the Warden she learned to care about him (at least in my playthroughs).  Now Morrigan tells him there's a way that he can save both his and Alistair's life.  Seeing him turn it down might cause her to leave partially because she doesn't want to see him die.  I'm not saying that Morrigan isn't self-interested, she is.  But at this point there can be more than one reason for this stuff.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

wiccame wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

wiccame wrote...

I always wondered why my blood mage couldn't convince Morrigan to give her the ritual and do it herself.

Because Morrigan wants to be the one to carry this child, so that she can influence it growing up? You can't possibly have missed that.

I didn't but my warden has no problem convincing any one to do anything....she could have quite easily have done it.

You mean like the way you convinced Paedan not to attack you at the Pearl? The Coercion skill is not an act of the Maker. There are limits to what you can do with it.

[KiwiQuiche]

Lazy Jer wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Some of you people are weird. Who wouldn´t want impregnate Morrigan?? ?

Probably people that don't like being manipulated

Indeed.

Especially if you turn her down, she just leaves on the eve of battle. As my Warden told her, you ungrateful b!tch.

Honestly, I'm with Ukki.  Morrigan gets a kid, I get to live, and the soul of the archdemon gets another chance at life free from the taint that corrupted it as the big ugly dragon.  Even better if the Warden pops off with Morrigan.  Her leaving on the eve of battle would be frustrating (I've never not done the ritual myself) but it could be explained as more then just being ungrateful.

Morrigan's view of life has always been about survival.  Over the course of traveling with the Warden she learned to care about him (at least in my playthroughs).  Now Morrigan tells him there's a way that he can save both his and Alistair's life.  Seeing him turn it down might cause her to leave partially because she doesn't want to see him die.  I'm not saying that Morrigan isn't self-interested, she is.  But at this point there can be more than one reason for this stuff.

As someone else said, I wouldn't trust Morrigan to raise a normal kid, much less one with the soul of a God.

I'm still not giving that witch an Old God to control. Especially with Flemeth lurking around and their own tangled web of manipulation in order to get the OGB. 

[Angrywolves]

Maybe the OGB saves the world someday.

[Lazy Jer]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
As someone else said, I wouldn't trust Morrigan to raise a normal kid, much less one with the soul of a God.

I'm still not giving that witch an Old God to control. Especially with Flemeth lurking around and their own tangled web of manipulation in order to get the OGB. 

Well...I'll admit that is part of the reason I usually send the Beyond the Looking Glass with her.  But it's not as if Morrigan is evil per se.  She's just self-interested.

[KiwiQuiche]

Angrywolves wrote...

Maybe the OGB saves the world someday.

Since when has Morrigan even been selfless? Doubt she would raise her kid to be.

[EnerPrime]

Except that the destruction of the essence is said to both result from and cause the death of the Warden it was trapped in. The way the ritual surmounts that problem is by sidestepping it, not by correcting it after the fact. If you think Morrigan is lying, fine, but if she's giving the Warden anything like the truth, it's too late once the Warden dies.

I am uncertain how this is relevant to the point we're disputing.

If the explanation we are given for why this works is anything close to true, there is nothing to snag after the Warden's soul is fried. Furthermore, that same explanation also precludes doing the ritual with a non-Warden to any effect whatsoever.

The problem is that if Morrigan's explanation is correct, that wiggle room pretty much vanishes if the Warden pulls a US.

Well firstly, IIRC the explanation of the US comes from Riordan, not Morrigan. And any in-setting 'facts' about what happens at that moment can probably be viewed as after-the-fact conjecture at best. After all the 'Grey Warden kills Archdemon' scenario has only happened four times before over the course of history and never in an environment that allows for observation and study of the event. The Wardens likely just saw a dead Warden and no new Archdemon forming, then took an educated guess from there.

So really, the destruction of the Archdemon's essence is not the solid fact you're presenting it as. For all we know, the Archdemon essences are never destroyed, just rendered somehow unable to posess a darkspawn and create a new body for itself in a process that is fatal to the Warden involved. Pehaps they are always purified of the darkspawn taint and go to wherever dead OG essences go. 

And once the essence destruction is established as *not* being an ironclad fact, it's not that hard to imagine a way of getting the OG soul without saving the Warden.

[Exile Isan]

Not wanting to impregnate Morrigan may have something to do with the fact that my Warden was a mage who loathes blood magic (especially after being betrayed by Jowan) and the bigger problem of being female. Which means she would have to have Alistair do it who was also my Warden's lover. Sola didn't trust what Morrigan wanted to do with the child or that Morrigan was even telling to truth. And the way Morrigan tries to convince you to do it reminded her too much of how the demons of the Fade try to manipulate mages. So, yeah that was not going to happen. 

And if the OGB shows up in my games, when I didn't do the Dark Ritual, I will be seriously pissed. IMO, if it did it would completely invalidate the Ultimate Sacrifice endings.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 15 juin 2013 - 02:40 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EnerPrime wrote...

Except that the destruction of the essence is said to both result from and cause the death of the Warden it was trapped in. The way the ritual surmounts that problem is by sidestepping it, not by correcting it after the fact. If you think Morrigan is lying, fine, but if she's giving the Warden anything like the truth, it's too late once the Warden dies.

I am uncertain how this is relevant to the point we're disputing.

If the explanation we are given for why this works is anything close to true, there is nothing to snag after the Warden's soul is fried. Furthermore, that same explanation also precludes doing the ritual with a non-Warden to any effect whatsoever.

The problem is that if Morrigan's explanation is correct, that wiggle room pretty much vanishes if the Warden pulls a US.

Well firstly, IIRC the explanation of the US comes from Riordan, not Morrigan. And any in-setting 'facts' about what happens at that moment can probably be viewed as after-the-fact conjecture at best. After all the 'Grey Warden kills Archdemon' scenario has only happened four times before over the course of history and never in an environment that allows for observation and study of the event. The Wardens likely just saw a dead Warden and no new Archdemon forming, then took an educated guess from there.

To be fair, it relies on fewer new assumptions than the essence being retrievable does.

So really, the destruction of the Archdemon's essence is not the solid fact you're presenting it as. For all we know, the Archdemon essences are never destroyed, just rendered somehow unable to posess a darkspawn and create a new body for itself in a process that is fatal to the Warden involved. Pehaps they are always purified of the darkspawn taint and go to wherever dead OG essences go.

Say that this is true. Retrieving them afterwards would violate one of the Cardinal Rules of Magic. Resurrection is almost impossible in this setting, remember? And the only times that come to mind involve a body being left afterwards. It's not impossible for this to be possible, it just requires basically every relevant rule established to be put aside at once, where Bioware usually limits themselves to ignoring one of their own rules at a time.

And once the essence destruction is established as *not* being an ironclad fact, it's not that hard to imagine a way of getting the OG soul without saving the Warden.

It is in the context of the Cardinal Rules. And since apparently Gaider has gone on record saying that there is no OGB without the DR, that makes it even harder.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 juin 2013 - 02:52 .

[Senya]

No OGB?

What could possibly go wrong with impregnating Morrigan with a child with the soul of an Old God and letting her raise it the same way Flemeth raised her?

[iOnlySignIn]

David Gaider wrote...

OGB cannon?

I approve the MADE IN CHINA.

Careful though Mr. Gaider. BioWareMod03 may delete your post because it's mostly just a picture and send you a PM reminding you about related forum rules.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 15 juin 2013 - 03:14 .

[David Gaider]

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Careful though Mr. Gaider. BioWareMod03 may delete your post because it's mostly just a picture and send you a PM reminding you about related forum rules.

Honestly, the occasional 24-hour ban would probably do me a world of good.

[Runningleaf]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Maybe the OGB saves the world someday.

Since when has Morrigan even been selfless? Doubt she would raise her kid to be.

Since when is saving the world selfless? As the world goes so go those who dwell there.

[Angrywolves]

Those no name mods. Means they don't have to take responsibility for their action like the old Impossible Missions Force, the secretary can disavow any knowledge of their actions. hahaha.

I like the idea of OGB being cannon.
I don't believe Morrigan is actually raising the child . It would cramp her style. She has proxies raising it.
Gaider wants to be banned. Check with Schumacher. He likes giving 48 hour bans though.

[EnerPrime]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


To be fair, it relies on fewer new assumptions than the essence being retrievable does.

Say that this is true. Retrieving them afterwards would violate one of the Cardinal Rules of Magic. Resurrection is almost impossible in this setting, remember? And the only times that come to mind involve a body being left afterwards. It's not impossible for this to be possible, it just requires basically every relevant rule established to be put aside at once, where Bioware usually limits themselves to ignoring one of their own rules at a time.

It is in the context of the Cardinal Rules. And since apparently Gaider has gone on record saying that there is no OGB without the DR, that makes it even harder.

We don't really know enough about the potential OGB to call it a ressurection. Taking the essence of an OG and fusing it with a just-conceived embryo is not exactly a normal situation. And besides, if anyone can come up with ways around the Cardinal Rules it's the woman who is one of the oldest and most powerful mages in all of Thedas. After all, according to Mr. Gaider all talk of the Cardinal Rules of magic should have the disclaimer "...according to what we know" attached. Just because the modern Circle doesn't know how to do something, doesn't mean it's impossible.

And I'm not saying the OGB will or should be in all games regardless of choice, I'm just saying that the lore easily allows for it to happen without any immutable facts being violated.

[KiwiQuiche]

Runningleaf wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Maybe the OGB saves the world someday.

Since when has Morrigan even been selfless? Doubt she would raise her kid to be.

Since when is saving the world selfless? As the world goes so go those who dwell there.

I really doubt she just wants the OGB just so it can save the world.

[Twilight_Princess]

I would also like a choice to kill it if you do choose to do the DR. Epic boss fight potential there.

*edit*

typing that made me think of the giant baby from zombies ate my neighbours lol

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 15 juin 2013 - 03:50 .

[Runningleaf]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Runningleaf wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Maybe the OGB saves the world someday.

Since when has Morrigan even been selfless? Doubt she would raise her kid to be.

Since when is saving the world selfless? As the world goes so go those who dwell there.

I really doubt she just wants the OGB just so it can save the world.

Well, she lives in the world, if she knew it would end and having a baby would save the world, and by extention her, I think she would.

She probebly just wants to "eat" it though...