4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

That does not necessarily follow.
If you agree to accept someones authority, then there are no backsies later.

Mages really cannot leave without endangering others, so that's another factor toconsider.

But not a relevant factor. i find the well being of the mages significantly more important then the well being of the mundanes as the mages are the only ones that can permanently shut down fade tears. and they themselves are far more useful against dragon swarms and darkspawn then mundanes.

Not relevant. There will always be mages and even if you treat them like qunari do, you can still use them to mend the veil (assuming that's the ONLY way to do it)
You only need a few of them anyway.
For everything else, mundanes work well too. Numbers have a quality of their own.

Are you seriously considering the qunari approach?<_<

[AresKeith]

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

[ianvillan]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
The mages joined the circle system voluntarily so they should also be allowed to leave voluntarily, If you prevent them from leaving like the Templars did then you are forcing them into the circles and are enslaving them.

That does not necessarily follow.
If you agree to accept someones authority, then there are no backsies later.

Mages really cannot leave without endangering others, so that's another factor toconsider.

You argue about keeping mundanes safe from mages but when it comes to keeping mages safe from mundanes which includes the Templars you value it as it doesn't matter and accept the mundanes harming the mages.

It doesn't matter? Sez who?
I want conditions in the Circles to be as good as they can reasonably be for the mages.
And I definately want the abusers punished, templar or mage.
However, the mages condition is one that necessitates strict regulations and unfortunately, there can be no perfect solution. No matter what system you have, it will always favor one or hte other. And I rather it favors 99% of the pupulation, rather than the 1%.

When the circles were created there was meant to be an equal control with a mage council who has a say, over the years a lot of mage rights were removed and a lot of abuses became standard practice.

The mages voluntarily joined the circle but the circle now is different than what is was meant to be so the mages should be able to leave if the Chantry is not able to change.

The Templars themselves backed out of their agreement with the Chantry even though they agree to accept Chantry authority so why is it wrong for mages.

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

No wonder you get on with David so well, you both like painting your opinions as gospel

[Hellion Rex]

ianvillan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
The mages joined the circle system voluntarily so they should also be allowed to leave voluntarily, If you prevent them from leaving like the Templars did then you are forcing them into the circles and are enslaving them.

That does not necessarily follow.
If you agree to accept someones authority, then there are no backsies later.

Mages really cannot leave without endangering others, so that's another factor toconsider.

You argue about keeping mundanes safe from mages but when it comes to keeping mages safe from mundanes which includes the Templars you value it as it doesn't matter and accept the mundanes harming the mages.

It doesn't matter? Sez who?
I want conditions in the Circles to be as good as they can reasonably be for the mages.
And I definately want the abusers punished, templar or mage.
However, the mages condition is one that necessitates strict regulations and unfortunately, there can be no perfect solution. No matter what system you have, it will always favor one or hte other. And I rather it favors 99% of the pupulation, rather than the 1%.

When the circles were created there was meant to be an equal control with a mage council who has a say, over the years a lot of mage rights were removed and a lot of abuses became standard practice.

The mages voluntarily joined the circle but the circle now is different than what is was meant to be so the mages should be able to leave if the Chantry is not able to change.

The Templars themselves backed out of their agreement with the Chantry even though they agree to accept Chantry authority so why is it wrong for mages.

I disagree about the first point. I do not think that a mage council beyond the College of Magi existed, and while some rights were indeed removed, abuses were not exactly "standard" practice. While some ae defintely prejudiced against the mages, not many acted on it. After all, we have only been given a look into three circles out of 14-15 in the Andrastian Chantry: White Spire, The Gallows, and Lake Calenhad.

[Hellion Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

No wonder you get on with David so well, you both like painting your opinions as gospel

Mages hardly have a monopoly on being stubborn and unwilling to listen.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

No wonder you get on with David so well, you both like painting your opinions as gospel

How can you say that I'm more sure of being right than the other side?

Mages hardly have a monopoly on being stubborn and unwilling to listen.

And I, personally, am willing to consider peace with the Chantry given certain circumstances.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 02 novembre 2013 - 04:10 .

[ianvillan]

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Not relevant. There will always be mages and even if you treat them like qunari do, you can still use them to mend the veil (assuming that's the ONLY way to do it)
You only need a few of them anyway.
For everything else, mundanes work well too. Numbers have a quality of their own.

Are you seriously considering the qunari approach?<_<

Some fans see The Qunari approach as only  for mages but they don't want it for the rest of the population of Thedas. They accept the heavy restrictions and the having there minds wiped on mages but if came to having the same things on the rest of them they don't want it.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

No wonder you get on with David so well, you both like painting your opinions as gospel

How can you say that I'm more sure of being right than the other side?

Because ypu also claim to have BioWare on your side and such.

Plus I just don't care for 99% of what you say, I can get on with pro-Templars better than you

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

That is a matter of personal opinion. I for one do believe in the need for extremely reformed Circles at the present time, as oppossed to full on mage freedom. We work our way to eventual mage freedom, just that this is a bad time, due to the Veil splitting and prejudice and tension running high.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

No wonder you get on with David so well, you both like painting your opinions as gospel

How can you say that I'm more sure of being right than the other side?

Mages hardly have a monopoly on being stubborn and unwilling to listen.

And I, personally, am willing to consider peace with the Chantry given certain circumstances.

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order. 

[Steelcan]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

That is a matter of personal opinion. I for one do believe in the need for extremely reformed Circles at the present time, as oppossed to full on mage freedom. We work our way to eventual mage freedom, just that this is a bad time, due to the Veil splitting and prejudice and tension running high.

And the tendency of mages to go all abominationy

[Hellion Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

That is a matter of personal opinion. I for one do believe in the need for extremely reformed Circles at the present time, as oppossed to full on mage freedom. We work our way to eventual mage freedom, just that this is a bad time, due to the Veil splitting and prejudice and tension running high.

And the tendency of mages to go all abominationy

Well, when you are backed into a corner, people do tend to get a little desperate.

[Br3admax]

We are not at war with the Chantry. The Templars are not a part of the Chantry.

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

We are not at war with the Chantry. The Templars are not a part of the Chantry.

And neither should they be anymore. If anything Lambert did was good, it was to break the Neverran Accords and split the Chantry from the Order.

[Steelcan]

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

That is a matter of personal opinion. I for one do believe in the need for extremely reformed Circles at the present time, as oppossed to full on mage freedom. We work our way to eventual mage freedom, just that this is a bad time, due to the Veil splitting and prejudice and tension running high.

And the tendency of mages to go all abominationy

Well, when you are backed into a corner, people do tend to get a little desperate.

Not even then.  Some mages are just weak

[Hazegurl]

To those who agree with the dissolving of the Circle System:

If you believe mages should not be in the Circle then what ideas do you have for the future of the mages? Meaning what sort of compromises do you believe should be in store that you believe would grant peace and allow the mages to live outside the Circle?

Example: I think the Circles are useless now and there is no way Mages would ever return to them. However, I also do not believe that Mages should live totally free and unrestricted lives. I think a good idea would be for the Templars to return to the Inquisition and set up branches around Thedas and dedicate themselves to protecting everyone from everything just as they used to.

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. except during emergency situations (ie, the Blight). 

Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

I wonder if some sort of mandatory military service during times of need should be implemented.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 02 novembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[Xilizhra]

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

Perhaps as a new branch of the Inquisition?
I would certainly enjoy having my Inquisitor bring about this new Order.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

Its the only thing that Lambert did that I can agree with. Hopefully we can make it stay that way after the war.

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You mean the segragation the mages accepted?
The segregation that keeps everyone safe?

Mages better behave, or else they'll get a spanking.

1. You mean forced to accept.
2. How is it making everyone safe? By the way non-mages are killing each other all the time over political situation. Loghain essentinally aided the darkspawn by betraying his own king, which contributed to his death including the death of the Grey Warden commander. He later caused a civil war in the process during a fricken Blight. He hired an escaped Circle mage to poison the Arl, and was sucessful.

Base on the history should non-mages be segregated? Apparently they don't know how to behave themselves, or play nice to each other.

1. There's nothing in the history of Thedas that states they were forced.

2. What kind of redicolous strawman are you hunting after here? The segregation is meant to keep mages safe from mundanes and from eachother and mundanes safe from mages.
It's not a magical wish that will make everyone safe fro meverything. Why the hell are you even arguing that? WTF are you smoking?
Your arguments are getting more dellusional and worse with each reply.

1. I'm pretty sure they're nothing in the histroy that indicating that mages came voluntary knocking at the doors of the Chantry and begged to be locked away in the Circle of Magi, and to live the segregation life. I find that hard to believe. No rational thinking person would want to live this kind of lifestyle. Mages like Uldred, Anders and Jowan  are prime examples of mages that do not want to be imprisoned by the Chantry but rather be uncuffed by their shackles.

2. That was the purpose of the Circle of Magi... to keep people safe. But theirs a real reason behind that suppose cause. It was use as a form of control by the Chantry to control mages, and to imprison them with the support from the public.

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

Perhaps as a new branch of the Inquisition?
I would certainly enjoy having my Inquisitor bring about this new Order.

Possibly... depending on the future.

[AresKeith]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

We are not at war with the Chantry. The Templars are not a part of the Chantry.

And neither should they be anymore. If anything Lambert did was good, it was to break the Neverran Accords and split the Chantry from the Order.

Except not every Templar left the Chantry with Lambert