4643 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You mean the segragation the mages accepted?
The segregation that keeps everyone safe?

Mages better behave, or else they'll get a spanking.

1. You mean forced to accept.
2. How is it making everyone safe? By the way non-mages are killing each other all the time over political situation. Loghain essentinally aided the darkspawn by betraying his own king, which contributed to his death including the death of the Grey Warden commander. He later caused a civil war in the process during a fricken Blight. He hired an escaped Circle mage to poison the Arl, and was sucessful.

Base on the history should non-mages be segregated? Apparently they don't know how to behave themselves, or play nice to each other.

1. There's nothing in the history of Thedas that states they were forced.

2. What kind of redicolous strawman are you hunting after here? The segregation is meant to keep mages safe from mundanes and from eachother and mundanes safe from mages.
It's not a magical wish that will make everyone safe fro meverything. Why the hell are you even arguing that? WTF are you smoking?
Your arguments are getting more dellusional and worse with each reply.

1. I'm pretty sure they're nothing in the histroy that indicating that mages came voluntary knocking at the doors of the Chantry and begged to be locked away in the Circle of Magi, and to live the segregation life. I find that hard to believe. No rational thinking person would want to live this kind of lifestyle. Mages like Uldred, Anders and Jowan  are prime examples of mages that do not want to be imprisoned by the Chantry but rather be uncuffed by their shackles.

2. That was the purpose of the Circle of Magi... to keep people safe. But theirs a real reason behind that suppose cause. It was use as a form of control by the Chantry to control mages, and to imprison them with the support from the public.

Back when the Circle was created many mages were happy to live there since they could practice their magic whenever they want without being persecuted.

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

We are not at war with the Chantry. The Templars are not a part of the Chantry.

And neither should they be anymore. If anything Lambert did was good, it was to break the Neverran Accords and split the Chantry from the Order.

Except not every Templar left the Chantry with Lambert

I am aware of that. But when this all over, the rest of the Templars should leave the Chantry as well.

[AresKeith]

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

We are not at war with the Chantry. The Templars are not a part of the Chantry.

And neither should they be anymore. If anything Lambert did was good, it was to break the Neverran Accords and split the Chantry from the Order.

Except not every Templar left the Chantry with Lambert

I am aware of that. But when this all over, the rest of the Templars should leave the Chantry as well.

And you know that isn't gonna

[Icy Magebane]

Hazegurl wrote...

To those who agree with the dissolving of the Circle System:

If you believe mages should not be in the Circle then what ideas do you have for the future of the mages? Meaning what sort of compromises do you believe should be in store that you believe would grant peace and allow the mages to live outside the Circle?

Example: I think the Circles are useless now and there is no way Mages would ever return to them. However, I also do not believe that Mages should live totally free and unrestricted lives. I think a good idea would be for the Templars to return to the Inquisition and set up branches around Thedas and dedicate themselves to protecting everyone from everything just as they used to.

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

I would have no problem with this.  You'd have a system in place for monitoring mages and swiftly dealing with those who break the law, while the mages get basic training to lower their succeptibility to demonic corruption and are allowed the same basic freedoms as non-mages once that's over.  Everybody wins.  I wouldn't even make that training compulsory... if they don't want to do it and wind up getting possessed, then that's just too damn bad.  The only real concern is the damage that abominations and maleficar would initially cause before the Templars get a chance to respond, but right now we're now dealing with open rebellion, which is just as dangerous to society as a whole.

Also, not reporting your status as a mage should be a crime punishable by a moderate jail sentence should you be discovered.  Not immediate tranquility, no death sentence, just a small punishment, during which they take some of your blood and put you on a watch list when you are released.

I doubt we'll ever see this much compromise as an option in the game, though...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 02 novembre 2013 - 04:31 .

[Lord Raijin]

ianvillan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You mean the segragation the mages accepted?
The segregation that keeps everyone safe?

Mages better behave, or else they'll get a spanking.

1. You mean forced to accept.
2. How is it making everyone safe? By the way non-mages are killing each other all the time over political situation. Loghain essentinally aided the darkspawn by betraying his own king, which contributed to his death including the death of the Grey Warden commander. He later caused a civil war in the process during a fricken Blight. He hired an escaped Circle mage to poison the Arl, and was sucessful.

Base on the history should non-mages be segregated? Apparently they don't know how to behave themselves, or play nice to each other.

1. There's nothing in the history of Thedas that states they were forced.

2. What kind of redicolous strawman are you hunting after here? The segregation is meant to keep mages safe from mundanes and from eachother and mundanes safe from mages.
It's not a magical wish that will make everyone safe fro meverything. Why the hell are you even arguing that? WTF are you smoking?
Your arguments are getting more dellusional and worse with each reply.

The mages joined the circle system voluntarily so they should also be allowed to leave voluntarily, If you prevent them from leaving like the Templars did then you are forcing them into the circles and are enslaving them.

You argue about keeping mundanes safe from mages but when it comes to keeping mages safe from mundanes which includes the Templars you value it as it doesn't matter and accept the mundanes harming the mages.

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

[Steelcan]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

see Wynne's childhood

you can hardly say that she was ripped from a loving home, they locked her in a barn as soona s they found out she was a mage.

Modifié par Steelcan, 02 novembre 2013 - 04:38 .

[Hellion Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

see Wynne's childhood

But not everyone had Wynne's childhood. And where did we even get Wynne's childhood story anyways?

[ianvillan]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

I am going of the accounts of the Chantry so it could be made up, but I do think that when the circle system was first form the Mages welcomed it as a way to learn, but the circle system now is different from what it was and I don't believe the Mages of old would be willing to join it as it is now.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

see Wynne's childhood

But not everyone had Wynne's childhood. And where did we even get Wynne's childhood story anyways?

Do you know what happens to mages who don't know how to control their powers? Connor happens. Also naturally, we talk to Wynne to learn about Wynne. 

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

see Wynne's childhood

But not everyone had Wynne's childhood. And where did we even get Wynne's childhood story anyways?

Do you know what happens to mages who don't know how to control their powers? Connor happens. Also naturally, we talk to Wynne to learn about Wynne. 

It has just been a while since I have played Origins, so I do not remember all of the Wynne's background. And what does Connor have to do with Wynne anyways?

[Steelcan]

I suggest greater freedoms for Mages who have passed their Harrowing, sucha s the right to leave the circle and raise a family, and education about blood magic, possibly even teaching it so mages don't go to demons for it.

Beyond that I don't see the Circle as that bad.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

see Wynne's childhood

But not everyone had Wynne's childhood. And where did we even get Wynne's childhood story anyways?

Do you know what happens to mages who don't know how to control their powers? Connor happens. Also naturally, we talk to Wynne to learn about Wynne. 

It has just been a while since I have played Origins, so I do not remember all of the Wynne's background. And what does Connor have to do with Wynne anyways?

They are both examples of how untrained mages can hurt others, Connor being a much better example. Wynne lit a boy on fire. 

[ianvillan]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

That is a matter of personal opinion. I for one do believe in the need for extremely reformed Circles at the present time, as oppossed to full on mage freedom. We work our way to eventual mage freedom, just that this is a bad time, due to the Veil splitting and prejudice and tension running high.

When would be the right time, when the Chantry has recovered there power and go back to treating mages as before. How long would it be in the reformed circles until rights are stripped away again under a new Devine or a circle that starts talking about leaving fully is then annulled.

The Chantry and Templars view the Mages as cursed and not human and see all of them as a new Tevinter or that they are all blood-mage wannabes, until that attitude changes the Mages will be treated as they are now or worse.

[ianvillan]

Hazegurl wrote...

To those who agree with the dissolving of the Circle System:

If you believe mages should not be in the Circle then what ideas do you have for the future of the mages? Meaning what sort of compromises do you believe should be in store that you believe would grant peace and allow the mages to live outside the Circle?

Example: I think the Circles are useless now and there is no way Mages would ever return to them. However, I also do not believe that Mages should live totally free and unrestricted lives. I think a good idea would be for the Templars to return to the Inquisition and set up branches around Thedas and dedicate themselves to protecting everyone from everything just as they used to.

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

Most of what you say I like but why should Mages need permission to travel and what happens if it is refused.
Who decides if the Mage should be executed or made tranquil, the Mages or Templars, is it a trial or does a small group make a quick decision.

[MisterJB]

ianvillan wrote...
When would be the right time, when the Chantry has recovered there power and go back to treating mages as before. How long would it be in the reformed circles until rights are stripped away again under a new Devine or a circle that starts talking about leaving fully is then annulled.

The Chantry and Templars view the Mages as cursed and not human and see all of them as a new Tevinter or that they are all blood-mage wannabes, until that attitude changes the Mages will be treated as they are now or worse.

First paragraph: Expresses distrust in the Chantry and fear that they'll just go back to treating mages as before.

Second paragraph: Admonishes the Templars for expressing distrust in the mages and fear that they'll just go back to treating non-mages as before.

Double standard.

Modifié par MisterJB, 02 novembre 2013 - 04:59 .

[Lord Raijin]

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

[ianvillan]

MisterJB wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
When would be the right time, when the Chantry has recovered there power and go back to treating mages as before. How long would it be in the reformed circles until rights are stripped away again under a new Devine or a circle that starts talking about leaving fully is then annulled.

The Chantry and Templars view the Mages as cursed and not human and see all of them as a new Tevinter or that they are all blood-mage wannabes, until that attitude changes the Mages will be treated as they are now or worse.

First paragraph: Expresses distrust in the Chantry and fear that they'll just go back to treating mages as before.

Second paragraph: Admonishes the Templars for expressing distrust in the mages and fear that they'll just go back to treating non-mages as before.

Double standard.

Yes it is a double standard, yet the Templars and Chantry express distrust in mages but mages cant distrust that the Chantry and Templars..

There is distrust on both sides and both sides will have to deal with it, the Chantry might have the most trouble changing because there mistrust is so ingrained into who they are it would mean a major change.

I say that until the Chantry and Templars change the most fundamental aspects of themselves that they wont be able to stop going back to the way they are.

Modifié par ianvillan, 02 novembre 2013 - 05:10 .

[Steelcan]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

[The Flying Grey Warden]

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

Nah, crash and burn baby. You pick either side, when the end of the game comes and everything looks like it's settling down they kill you, your love interest,  and your companions. Bring out their new world order on your corpse and turn you into a martyr for their cause.

[cjones91]

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

You can't prove with absolute certainty that every single mage will go on a killing spree.

[Makkaramestari]

Mage this, Templar that. I propose more cheese for both groups.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The fact that them "living their own lives how they want" will mean death an destruction for many, many mundanes?

You can't prove with absolute certainty that every single mage will go on a killing spree.

He doesn't have to.
"Every single mage" is irrelevant. That enough mages do it is enough.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Makkaramestari wrote...

Mage this, Templar that. I propose more cheese for both groups.

For the greater gouda

[The Flying Grey Warden]

In all seriousness thid thread is terribad. Like milk that you knew was expired, but you were too busy to throw it out, and now its chunky and kinda yellow.

That level of rancid.

[DKJaigen]

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

Thats human nature deal with it.