4643 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

DKJaigen wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

Thats human nature deal with it.

Sorry i can't just handle that  when non-mages kills or abuse mages it is bad and it have to be stoped but when mages do that "thats fine thats human nature deal with it" .

[Br3admax]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Makkaramestari wrote...

Mage this, Templar that. I propose more cheese for both groups.

For the greater gouda

No, this is terrabad, bro. 

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

That does not necessarily follow.
If you agree to accept someones authority, then there are no backsies later.

Mages really cannot leave without endangering others, so that's another factor toconsider.

But not a relevant factor. i find the well being of the mages significantly more important then the well being of the mundanes as the mages are the only ones that can permanently shut down fade tears. and they themselves are far more useful against dragon swarms and darkspawn then mundanes.

Not relevant. There will always be mages and even if you treat them like qunari do, you can still use them to mend the veil (assuming that's the ONLY way to do it)
You only need a few of them anyway.
For everything else, mundanes work well too. Numbers have a quality of their own.

I wonder what your job is because simply slapping manpower on a problem doesnt mean you can fix the problem. the qun mages unlikely have the knowledge let alone the skill to close a fade tear and that problem also applies to the circle mages.

[DKJaigen]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

Thats human nature deal with it.

Sorry i can't just handle that  when non-mages kills or abuse mages it is bad and it have to be stoped but when mages do that "thats fine thats human nature deal with it" .

I dont care about the absuses either.. i want the mages in fighting condition to combat thedas magical threats and i want every single templar death who wishes to stop that.

[TheKomandorShepard]

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

Thats human nature deal with it.

Sorry i can't just handle that  when non-mages kills or abuse mages it is bad and it have to be stoped but when mages do that "thats fine thats human nature deal with it" .

I dont care about the absuses either.. i want the mages in fighting condition to combat thedas magical threats and i want every single templar death who wishes to stop that.

Best for magical threats are templars sure they aren't very competent but at least we don't get army of abomnations when we send mages and noting that mages lost practically every their battle.  

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Br3ad wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Makkaramestari wrote...

Mage this, Templar that. I propose more cheese for both groups.

For the greater gouda

No, this is terrabad, bro. 

It's not what this thread needs, but it is more then this thread deserves.

[Hazegurl]

ianvillan wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

To those who agree with the dissolving of the Circle System:

If you believe mages should not be in the Circle then what ideas do you have for the future of the mages? Meaning what sort of compromises do you believe should be in store that you believe would grant peace and allow the mages to live outside the Circle?

Example: I think the Circles are useless now and there is no way Mages would ever return to them. However, I also do not believe that Mages should live totally free and unrestricted lives. I think a good idea would be for the Templars to return to the Inquisition and set up branches around Thedas and dedicate themselves to protecting everyone from everything just as they used to.

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

Most of what you say I like but why should Mages need permission to travel and what happens if it is refused.
Who decides if the Mage should be executed or made tranquil, the Mages or Templars, is it a trial or does a small group make a quick decision.

Good questions, I think mages should have permission to travel so that Templars know where they are at all times. They still have the freedom to travel but I think it's important for Templars to be able to track them down easily just in case. It also goes into the whole register process, the purpose behind them registering with a local branch is so that Templars will know how many mages they have in their area and when. If a mage poses a danger it should make it much easier to track them down, hopefully before they cause too much damage. As for a trial, I think a jury of Mages and Templars would work. There are Mages who don't tolerate blood Mages etc anymore than a Templar. I'm not saying it would be perfect, they will bicker and have their disagreements but I don't think one side should be in charge of the trial and punishment.

[Hazegurl]

Icy Magebane wrote...
Also, not reporting your status as a mage should be a crime punishable by a moderate jail sentence should you be discovered.  Not immediate tranquility, no death sentence, just a small punishment, during which they take some of your blood and put you on a watch list when you are released.

I doubt we'll ever see this much compromise as an option in the game, though...

I agree, not reporting should be a jail sentence and perhaps a strike rule should be in place. Perhaps templars could be dispatched to figure out why the Mage has not reported and given a warning. After three strikes they go to jail and/or pay a fine and forced to register. However, if they have turned to blood magic, demon summoning, murder etc. Then more exterme punshments are needed.

[Lord Raijin]

Hazegurl wrote...

To those who agree with the dissolving of the Circle System:

If you believe mages should not be in the Circle then what ideas do you have for the future of the mages? Meaning what sort of compromises do you believe should be in store that you believe would grant peace and allow the mages to live outside the Circle?

Example: I think the Circles are useless now and there is no way Mages would ever return to them. However, I also do not believe that Mages should live totally free and unrestricted lives. I think a good idea would be for the Templars to return to the Inquisition and set up branches around Thedas and dedicate themselves to protecting everyone from everything just as they used to.

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. except during emergency situations (ie, the Blight).

Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

I wonder if some sort of mandatory military service during times of need should be implemented.

As a Pro-mage I do not believe in dissolving of the Circle as it's far too important to be dissolved. I think we all can agree to that. The Circle of Magi should be not only be a source for education, but also a career path for some mages who desires to become teachers/mentors (Enchanters) of the arcane arts, and wants to teach the next generation of mages to properly use their Makers given gift. For mages who specializes in healing could have the opportunity to serve man by working for the templars (or work for a hospital to deal with sick people; like what Anders was doing in Kirkwall)... to aid them while on their hunt for mages who are law breakers... to heal the templars in case if any of them get injured in the process. This also includes mages who excel well in combat in the arcane arts. During non-combative mages can use their gift to help guide the templars in the dark by giving them light to see, and fire to keep them warm on cold nights, and help to cook the food that the templars brings back to the camp sight.

I really want Templars and mages to work together. I'm not truly an anti Templar if things were different, and that Mages weren't subjugated for being who they are.

The Circle should NEVER ever be used as a prison. When a mage misbehaves and breaks the laws they go to Aeonar or prisons like it where they're judged base on the evidence, and will sentenced accordingly base on the crime that the mage committed under Chantry law. Collecting phylacteries of mages should only be used if the mage breaks the law, and need close monitoring by the templars. If a mage demonstrates to himself and to others that he can behave himself, and not break any laws they're no reason to create a phylactery for him.

[Lord Raijin]

[quote]cjones91 wrote...

[/quote]Back when the Circle was created many mages were happy to live there since they could practice their magic whenever they want without being persecuted.
[/quote]

I'm sure many did, but had they realize what will become of the Circle under Chantries strict rules they would've never conformed to this idea, not while the Chantry has their hands over the Circle of Magi.

[Lord Raijin]

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

We are not at war with the Chantry. The Templars are not a part of the Chantry.

And neither should they be anymore. If anything Lambert did was good, it was to break the Neverran Accords and split the Chantry from the Order.

Except not every Templar left the Chantry with Lambert

I am aware of that. But when this all over, the rest of the Templars should leave the Chantry as well.

And you know that isn't gonna

As much as a pro-Mage that I am I honestly do not want the templars to leave the Chantry. I want the Chantry to go through a whole new management. I want them to change their regulations and rules so both Templars/Chantry and the mages can both benefit from it.

How hard is it to play fair?

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

see Wynne's childhood

But not everyone had Wynne's childhood. And where did we even get Wynne's childhood story anyways?

Exactly. Not everyone had Wynne's childhood. Had the Arl of Redcliff been some common fellow, and if the templars found out that Connor was a mage... they would not hestitate to barge into his home to take his son away forever, and thats not all. They would arrest his wife and himself for harbouring an apostate. Both parents would most likley be executed for their crimes.

[Lord Raijin]

ianvillan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

I am going of the accounts of the Chantry so it could be made up, but I do think that when the circle system was first form the Mages welcomed it as a way to learn, but the circle system now is different from what it was and I don't believe the Mages of old would be willing to join it as it is now.

Anders, Uldred and Jowan are living proof that they no longer wanted to be apart of the today's Chantry runned Circle of Magi.

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

I am going of the accounts of the Chantry so it could be made up, but I do think that when the circle system was first form the Mages welcomed it as a way to learn, but the circle system now is different from what it was and I don't believe the Mages of old would be willing to join it as it is now.

Anders, Uldred and Jowan are living proof that they no longer wanted to be apart of the today's Chantry runned Circle of Magi.

Picking extremist who are perfect examples on why the Circle is needed does not help your argument. 

[Lord Raijin]

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I wonder if we'll finally realize that both sides are wrong in the next hundred pages.

What is wrong with mages wanting their independence? Wanting to unshackle their Chantries manacles and start living their own lives?

The part that comes after, where they start killing everybody

How many innocent people Malcolm Hawke  killed while he was on the run? Not all mages are homocidal manaics.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 02 novembre 2013 - 08:13 .

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The fact that them "living their own lives how they want" will mean death an destruction for many, many mundanes?

That's silly and ridiculous . You can't possibly be serious, are you?

[Red Panda]

The circles needed to fall.

Now, we need to put the mages in squares.

Just a joke. I sympathize with sane templars some of the time.

Modifié par OperatingWookie, 02 novembre 2013 - 08:27 .

[Lord Raijin]

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

I am going of the accounts of the Chantry so it could be made up, but I do think that when the circle system was first form the Mages welcomed it as a way to learn, but the circle system now is different from what it was and I don't believe the Mages of old would be willing to join it as it is now.

Anders, Uldred and Jowan are living proof that they no longer wanted to be apart of the today's Chantry runned Circle of Magi.

Picking extremist who are perfect examples on why the Circle is needed does not help your argument. 

I did not say that. I said that these three mages are proven fact that mages are now wanting the Circle of Magi to be disassociated by the chantry, and have even went as far as to developed political groups to gain support for their cause.

[Schneidend]

There are extremists on both sides. The Circles are a necessary evil that certainly can't be abolished. But, aside from DA2 where we clearly saw a lot of messed up abuses (although those were caused by external forces influencing the Templars), the Circle is hardly a concentration camp. We're talking about three square meals a day, clothes, education, and no responsibilities other than some domestic chores and working at said education, all for free. To say mages are oppressed is like saying students are oppressed.

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I don't see how its considered voluntarily when Templars barges into peoples homes and kidnapping children from their loving and caring homes to be taken away in such an such a disgusting way... by putting manacles on their wrists to shamefully embarrass them in front of their friends and family. Templars also do this for adults as well.

I am going of the accounts of the Chantry so it could be made up, but I do think that when the circle system was first form the Mages welcomed it as a way to learn, but the circle system now is different from what it was and I don't believe the Mages of old would be willing to join it as it is now.

Anders, Uldred and Jowan are living proof that they no longer wanted to be apart of the today's Chantry runned Circle of Magi.

Picking extremist who are perfect examples on why the Circle is needed does not help your argument. 

I did not say that. I said that these three mages are proven fact that mages are now wanting the Circle of Magi to be disassociated by the chantry, and have even went as far as to developed political groups to gain support for their cause.

And? What you don't seem to get is that citing extremist as examples of the general consensus is not how you make a proper argument. 

[dragonflight288]

Schneidend wrote...

There are extremists on both sides. The Circles are a necessary evil that certainly can't be abolished. But, aside from DA2 where we clearly saw a lot of messed up abuses (although those were caused by external forces influencing the Templars), the Circle is hardly a concentration camp. We're talking about three square meals a day, clothes, education, and no responsibilities other than some domestic chores and working at said education, all for free. To say mages are oppressed is like saying students are oppressed.

Material comforts are met, no one, not even the pro-mages dispute this. It's the emotional trauma/abuse, and sometimes physical abuse that are allowed to happen to them without reprisals or consequences to the abusers.

Mages are emotionally oppressed.

[cjones91]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

There are extremists on both sides. The Circles are a necessary evil that certainly can't be abolished. But, aside from DA2 where we clearly saw a lot of messed up abuses (although those were caused by external forces influencing the Templars), the Circle is hardly a concentration camp. We're talking about three square meals a day, clothes, education, and no responsibilities other than some domestic chores and working at said education, all for free. To say mages are oppressed is like saying students are oppressed.

Material comforts are met, no one, not even the pro-mages dispute this. It's the emotional trauma/abuse, and sometimes physical abuse that are allowed to happen to them without reprisals or consequences to the abusers.

Mages are emotionally oppressed.

Not to mention that living in material comfort means jack squat if you are abused all the time,otherwise that argument would be used to excuse kidnappers.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Material comforts are met, no one, not even the pro-mages dispute this. It's the emotional trauma/abuse, and sometimes physical abuse that are allowed to happen to them without reprisals or consequences to the abusers.

Mages are emotionally oppressed.

And no pro-templar disputes that there needs to be a greater policing amidst the Templars.
But, even when there are no abuses to be found, we have mages like Uldred. All that woman who participated in his rebellion could pin on the Ferelden Templars was that they were always "watching." which is their duty.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Material comforts are met, no one, not even the pro-mages dispute this. It's the emotional trauma/abuse, and sometimes physical abuse that are allowed to happen to them without reprisals or consequences to the abusers.

Mages are emotionally oppressed.

And no pro-templar disputes that there needs to be a greater policing amidst the Templars.
But, even when there are no abuses to be found, we have mages like Uldred. All that woman who participated in his rebellion could pin on the Ferelden Templars was that they were always "watching." which is their duty.

I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Material comforts are met, no one, not even the pro-mages dispute this. It's the emotional trauma/abuse, and sometimes physical abuse that are allowed to happen to them without reprisals or consequences to the abusers.

Mages are emotionally oppressed.

And no pro-templar disputes that there needs to be a greater policing amidst the Templars.
But, even when there are no abuses to be found, we have mages like Uldred. All that woman who participated in his rebellion could pin on the Ferelden Templars was that they were always "watching." which is their duty.

I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

I would say that watching mages undress is a little bit more uncommon.