4643 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...
I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

There is no reason to believe they do that in the first place.
Yes, there were rumors of templars watching mages as they bathed but let's look at it logically. You can see their bathing facilities in Ferelden. It's a bathtub with a wooden wall separating from the others to safeguard some privacy which was pretty standard in medieval times.
There are three ways a Templar could watch a mage bathe.
1- He could sit in front of her but then, there would be no rumours. They would know with certainty Templars were watching.
2- He could make a hole in the wooden wall but it's very unlikely anyon could stand behind it and not be noticed by the person taking a bath.
3- Make a hole through a tick stone wall which is just unfeasible.
Those were just ridiculous rumors.

I believe that "The Templars were always watching", that mage was referring to a desire to be free from Templar scrutiny. However, given we're talking about people that can, at any moment, become an Abomination or use blood magic to control another's mind, I'd say scrutiny is necessary.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

There is no reason to believe they do that in the first place.
Yes, there were rumors of templars watching mages as they bathed but let's look at it logically. You can see their bathing facilities in Ferelden. It's a bathtub with a wooden wall separating from the others to safeguard some privacy which was pretty standard in medieval times.
There are three ways a Templar could watch a mage bathe.
1- He could sit in front of her but then, there would be no rumours. They would know with certainty Templars were watching.
2- He could make a hole in the wooden wall but it's very unlikely anyon could stand behind it and not be noticed by the person taking a bath.
3- Make a hole through a tick stone wall which is just unfeasible.
Those were just ridiculous rumors.

I believe that "The Templars were always watching", that mage was referring to a desire to be free from Templar scrutiny. However, given we're talking about people that can, at any moment, become an Abomination or use blood magic to control another's mind, I'd say scrutiny is necessary.

Well the mages' quarters in the Fereldan Circle had not walls separating the mages' personal quarters which means they have to change clothes in full view of everyone templars included.But you could be right and that was just one case of mages not having any privact.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...

Thats human nature deal with it.

So is mundanes fearing/hating mages and locking mages.
Deal with it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
I wonder what your job is because simply slapping manpower on a problem doesnt mean you can fix the problem. the qun mages unlikely have the knowledge let alone the skill to close a fade tear and that problem also applies to the circle mages.

Then the entire point becomes moot, doesn't it?

Lord Raijin wrote...
That's silly and ridiculous . You can't possibly be serious, are you?

I am. 100%.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

There is no personal space issue.

That was a rumor and the pro-mages jumped on it (predictably) like rabbid dogs.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

There is no personal space issue.

That was a rumor and the pro-mages jumped on it (predictably) like rabbid dogs.

Not really,if you look aorund the mages' quarters there are no walls around their private areas which means the mages likely have to change clothes with everyone looking.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Thats human nature deal with it.

So is mundanes fearing/hating mages and locking mages.
Deal with it.

True but their are also people who bring in new ideas new technologie and in this case new magic. they shape the future not some outdated selfdestructive order.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
I wonder what your job is because simply slapping manpower on a problem doesnt mean you can fix the problem. the qun mages unlikely have the knowledge let alone the skill to close a fade tear and that problem also applies to the circle mages.

Then the entire point becomes moot, doesn't it?

Nope when the demon loving red templars are destroyed and the chantrys influence over the mages is gone the mages must be taught how to close fade tears so nothing like this can happen again. its clear that the circle mages are backwards when it comes to magical knowledge compared to the tevinter mages. And thats because of the restrictions placed by templar order and the chantry. and so they are to blame for the damage of this demonic invasion. after all if you live by the sea you cannot blame the water for destroying your house when you never build dikes.

[dragonflight288]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
I wonder what your job is because simply slapping manpower on a problem doesnt mean you can fix the problem. the qun mages unlikely have the knowledge let alone the skill to close a fade tear and that problem also applies to the circle mages.

Then the entire point becomes moot, doesn't it?

Nope when the demon loving red templars are destroyed and the chantrys influence over the mages is gone the mages must be taught how to close fade tears so nothing like this can happen again. its clear that the circle mages are backwards when it comes to magical knowledge compared to the tevinter mages. And thats because of the restrictions placed by templar order and the chantry. and so they are to blame for the damage of this demonic invasion. after all if you live by the sea you cannot blame the water for destroying your house when you never build dikes.

I wouldn't place blame on anyone for the coming demonic invasion when we don't know for sure who is truly responsible for the veil tear in the coming game.

Although I do agree that the Chantry is quite backwards in magical research with how many limitations they put on it.

[ianvillan]

Hazegurl wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

To those who agree with the dissolving of the Circle System:

If you believe mages should not be in the Circle then what ideas do you have for the future of the mages? Meaning what sort of compromises do you believe should be in store that you believe would grant peace and allow the mages to live outside the Circle?

Example: I think the Circles are useless now and there is no way Mages would ever return to them. However, I also do not believe that Mages should live totally free and unrestricted lives. I think a good idea would be for the Templars to return to the Inquisition and set up branches around Thedas and dedicate themselves to protecting everyone from everything just as they used to.

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

Most of what you say I like but why should Mages need permission to travel and what happens if it is refused.
Who decides if the Mage should be executed or made tranquil, the Mages or Templars, is it a trial or does a small group make a quick decision.

Good questions, I think mages should have permission to travel so that Templars know where they are at all times. They still have the freedom to travel but I think it's important for Templars to be able to track them down easily just in case. It also goes into the whole register process, the purpose behind them registering with a local branch is so that Templars will know how many mages they have in their area and when. If a mage poses a danger it should make it much easier to track them down, hopefully before they cause too much damage. As for a trial, I think a jury of Mages and Templars would work. There are Mages who don't tolerate blood Mages etc anymore than a Templar. I'm not saying it would be perfect, they will bicker and have their disagreements but I don't think one side should be in charge of the trial and punishment.

What you say is good and could work well the only problem I have is the need for permission to travel, I don't mind having to say where you are going or registering your presence when you arrive but having to go and get permission to travel is still treating mages like prisoner's to me.

[Lord Raijin]

Schneidend wrote...

There are extremists on both sides. The Circles are a necessary evil that certainly can't be abolished. But, aside from DA2 where we clearly saw a lot of messed up abuses (although those were caused by external forces influencing the Templars), the Circle is hardly a concentration camp. We're talking about three square meals a day, clothes, education, and no responsibilities other than some domestic chores and working at said education, all for free. To say mages are oppressed is like saying students are oppressed.

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

Chantry run Circles isn't as luxurious as you picture it out to be. It's still a prison that you can never truly get out unless if you are conscripted into the ranks of the Grey Wardens.

[Lord Raijin]

Br3ad wrote...
And? What you don't seem to get is that citing extremist as examples of the general consensus is not how you make a proper argument. 

The motivation for their cause is what I'm using for the example. Look at the motivation for these 3 mages.

[DKJaigen]

dragonflight288 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
I wonder what your job is because simply slapping manpower on a problem doesnt mean you can fix the problem. the qun mages unlikely have the knowledge let alone the skill to close a fade tear and that problem also applies to the circle mages.

Then the entire point becomes moot, doesn't it?

Nope when the demon loving red templars are destroyed and the chantrys influence over the mages is gone the mages must be taught how to close fade tears so nothing like this can happen again. its clear that the circle mages are backwards when it comes to magical knowledge compared to the tevinter mages. And thats because of the restrictions placed by templar order and the chantry. and so they are to blame for the damage of this demonic invasion. after all if you live by the sea you cannot blame the water for destroying your house when you never build dikes.

I wouldn't place blame on anyone for the coming demonic invasion when we don't know for sure who is truly responsible for the veil tear in the coming game.

Although I do agree that the Chantry is quite backwards in magical research with how many limitations they put on it.

The one who started the demon invasion is an assss withour a doubt. But the templars and chantry knew that their was only a veil (which could tear easily) between the fade and the mortal world. And they knew they where plenty of demons in the fade eager to get inot thedas. The templars are supposed to protect thedas from such things. The fact they made no effort to put a contingency plan into place or prepare for such a thing is criminal incompetence.

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
And? What you don't seem to get is that citing extremist as examples of the general consensus is not how you make a proper argument. 

The motivation for their cause is what I'm using for the example. Look at the motivation for these 3 mages.

Disagreeing and causing ill content among their piers does not make their piers agree with them. You're again, grasping at straws because you refuse to admit that not every mage agrees with you and that many mages would argue that most of the things done by these three have been wrong.

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
I think the personal space issue is something that needs to be fixed as well.There should be no reason for templars to watch mages even as they undress because it makes them(especially the women) uncomfortable.

There is no personal space issue.

That was a rumor and the pro-mages jumped on it (predictably) like rabbid dogs.

<coughcough>I (as a captured Circle mage) wouldn't mind having Knight-Commander Meredith watch me get undressed and getting ready for a bath. Perhabs something better would come out of it? No matter how pro-Mage I am... Meredith has a special place in my heart.

I'm sure mage women would love to have someone like Cullen looking at them as they get undressed.

Oh my Maker! I got Dragon Age porn in my head. Is this a Desire demon trying to possess me? Maker NO!


My favorite death....

Death by Snu Snu! Death by Erotic asphyxiation!

[Schneidend]

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

Chantry run Circles isn't as luxurious as you picture it out to be. It's still a prison that you can never truly get out unless if you are conscripted into the ranks of the Grey Wardens.

I never suggested the Circle was luxurious. However, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than living in squalor like the majority of Dragon Age's children do, or being burnt at the stake for pissing off your superstitious village with your uncontrolled magic. The lore also does not give me any great faith in a completely autonomous, mage-led Circle. As Wynn says, any mage is ripe for possession, from the lowliest apprentice to the First Enchanter himself. Unless they were observed by an elite force of some kind, a Circle tower could become a fortress for abominations, with the rest of the countryside none the wiser until it was far too late.

[Lord Raijin]

Schneidend wrote...
I never suggested the Circle was luxurious. However, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than living in squalor like the majority of Dragon Age's children do, or being burnt at the stake for pissing off your superstitious village with your uncontrolled magic. The lore also does not give me any great faith in a completely autonomous, mage-led Circle. As Wynn says, any mage is ripe for possession, from the lowliest apprentice to the First Enchanter himself. Unless they were observed by an elite force of some kind, a Circle tower could become a fortress for abominations, with the rest of the countryside none the wiser until it was far too late.

Thats just an opinion. Anders would rather live in the filthiest place in Lowtown in Kirkwall rather than to live in Circle tower in Ferelden.

As far as what Wynne said about any mage is ripe for possession... What about the statement that Cullen made in DA2?



Non-mages can also be fallin victim to possession just as well as the mages, but under the guidence of a blood mage who purposely summons demons, and lets them latch onto a living victim thus giving it a host to survive in the mortal realms.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Schneidend wrote...
I never suggested the Circle was luxurious. However, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than living in squalor like the majority of Dragon Age's children do, or being burnt at the stake for pissing off your superstitious village with your uncontrolled magic. The lore also does not give me any great faith in a completely autonomous, mage-led Circle. As Wynn says, any mage is ripe for possession, from the lowliest apprentice to the First Enchanter himself. Unless they were observed by an elite force of some kind, a Circle tower could become a fortress for abominations, with the rest of the countryside none the wiser until it was far too late.

Thats just an opinion. Anders would rather live in the filthiest place in Lowtown in Kirkwall rather than to live in Circle tower in Ferelden.

As far as what Wynne said about any mage is ripe for possession... What about the statement that Cullen made in DA2?



Non-mages can also be fallin victim to possession just as well as the mages, but under the guidence of a blood mage who purposely summons demons, and lets them latch onto a living victim thus giving it a host to survive in the mortal realms.

Yes, the leader of that Free Marches city was possessed by a pride demon, and ruled for ten years unnoticed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes but how big chances are that non-mage will be possessed almost none because demon must be forced by mage or somehow get to real world what without mage is possible only by torn veil and there is no other way without mage there is no demons.

[Schneidend]

Lord Raijin wrote...


Thats just an opinion. Anders would rather live in the filthiest place in Lowtown in Kirkwall rather than to live in Circle tower in Ferelden.

Anders is an anarchistic nutjob.

As far as what Wynne said about any mage is ripe for possession... What about the statement that Cullen made in DA2?
Non-mages can also be fallin victim to possession just as well as the mages, but under the guidence of a blood mage who purposely summons demons, and lets them latch onto a living victim thus giving it a host to survive in the mortal realms.

...How does pointing out that Blood Magic is apparently even more dangerous than originally thought helping your cause, exactly?

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
I wonder what your job is because simply slapping manpower on a problem doesnt mean you can fix the problem. the qun mages unlikely have the knowledge let alone the skill to close a fade tear and that problem also applies to the circle mages.

Then the entire point becomes moot, doesn't it?

Nope

Yes. Check the marked text.
If mages lack the skill or knowledge to close the vai ltears, then tehy are as useless as everyone else.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

DKJaigen wrote...

The one who started the demon invasion is an assss withour a doubt. But
the templars and chantry knew that their was only a veil (which could
tear easily) between the fade and the mortal world. And they knew they
where plenty of demons in the fade eager to get inot thedas. The
templars are supposed to protect thedas from such things. The fact they
made no effort to put a contingency plan into place or prepare for such a
thing is criminal incompetence.

Do we have a contingency plan if an asteroid the size of a moon crashes with the Earth?
No?
Well, looks like our governmetn are criminalyl incompetentthen!

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 novembre 2013 - 10:36 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

DKJaigen wrote...

The one who started the demon invasion is an assss withour a doubt. But
the templars and chantry knew that their was only a veil (which could
tear easily) between the fade and the mortal world. And they knew they
where plenty of demons in the fade eager to get inot thedas. The
templars are supposed to protect thedas from such things. The fact they
made no effort to put a contingency plan into place or prepare for such a
thing is criminal incompetence.

Do we have a contingency plan if an asteroid the size of a moon crashes with the Earth?
No?
Well, looks like our governmetn are criminalyl incompetentthen!

Both sides have to bend a little for there to be compromise.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yes but how big chances are that non-mage will be possessed almost none because demon must be forced by mage or somehow get to real world what without mage is possible only by torn veil and there is no other way without mage there is no demons.

I was just giving an example to show that it is still possible to have non mages become possessed and wreak havoc, even though those cases are more rare.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

DKJaigen wrote...

The one who started the demon invasion is an assss withour a doubt. But
the templars and chantry knew that their was only a veil (which could
tear easily) between the fade and the mortal world. And they knew they
where plenty of demons in the fade eager to get inot thedas. The
templars are supposed to protect thedas from such things. The fact they
made no effort to put a contingency plan into place or prepare for such a
thing is criminal incompetence.

Do we have a contingency plan if an asteroid the size of a moon crashes with the Earth?
No?
Well, looks like our governmetn are criminalyl incompetentthen!

Now your being silly once again. some things can be avoided with proper planning and forethought and some things you cannot. a demonic invasion was something the templars could have foreseen. And what has chantry leadership brought thedas? death , destruction and chaos. I dont see the appeal of chantry goverenance of magic here lotion.