4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

MisterJB wrote...

Let's ask the elves of denerim how humans policing themselves has worked out for them.

Let's also ask every non mage in Tevinter how mages policing themselves have worked out for them.

[Mr.House]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

coughtevintercough

[Lord Raijin]

Schneidend wrote...

Fighting for your freedom or that of others isn't insane. Failing to recognize that your very existence endangers everyone around you or that your rebellious actions have drastic consequences for non-mages and non-Templars, however, is quite deranged.

And that my dear friend is the reason why the Chantry vs Mages exists. The Chantry spreads fear by telling everyone that the very exstence of mages puts everyone around them endangered. This indoctrination is what causes some non-mages parents to become quite fearful of their mage children, and sometimes downright disown them. This causes a lot of resentments to those very same mages, which some produces a rebellious attitude.

But, as you pointed out, it takes a blood mage to possess a non-mage. Otherwise, non-mages cannot be possessed. It serves as another example of why mages cannot go unobserved without serious consequences. If an abomination can use blood magic to make even more abominatons, then even a single mage being possessed could spell the end of civilization.

Non-mages don't need to be possessed to become a dangerous individual. They don't need to have magical powers either. The fact that a suppose caring Revered Mother from Lothering with a psychopathic mindlike was more than willing to allow a prisoner die from a slow angoy death inside some cage rather than to execute him on sight for his crimes. This includes the starving prisoner in Ostagar.

How can non-mages save society from these dangerous mages when they themselves are just as dangerous if not more?

[Lord Raijin]

Mr.House wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

coughtevintercough

Not every mage supports Tevinter Imperium

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

coughtevintercough

Not every mage supports Tevinter Imperium

From Mr. "Mages are obviously superior, deserve control, and I'm a real mage!" himself. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There is nothing wrong with that Revered Mother or anyone in Lothering leaving Sten to die slowly after what he did.

[General TSAR]

Allowing a mass murderer and a coward/thief to die of starvation or exposure is more repulsive than sacrificing hundreds of slaves to enter the dream world and unleashing the Darkspawn on the world?

Sure.......

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

coughtevintercough

Not every mage supports Tevinter Imperium

tevinter as country maybe not but tevinter idea yes except perhaps loyalists who are self-hating moorons but mages already lost they are too weak to survive now they have to die like every weak creature who will try play
tough in front of stronger organisation.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

coughtevintercough

Not every mage supports Tevinter Imperium

tevinter as country maybe not but tevinter idea yes except perhaps loyalists who are self-hating moorons but mages already lost they are too weak to survive now they have to die like every weak creature who will try play
tough in front of stronger organisation.

Completely false. Not everyone supports the "Tevinter idea", as you simplisitically put it. And there are more than just the loyalists who wish to have reformed circles or no circles at all, rather than full on mage supremacy. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Circle of Magi does NOT have to be a nessassary evil if it was run properly. Nobody wants to abolish the Circle, just want the Chantry to abandon it so that mages could be the true leaders, not the templars and the Chantry.

NEVER.
EVER.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

coughtevintercough

Not every mage supports Tevinter Imperium

tevinter as country maybe not but tevinter idea yes except perhaps loyalists who are self-hating moorons but mages already lost they are too weak to survive now they have to die like every weak creature who will try play
tough in front of stronger organisation.

Completely false. Not everyone supports the "Tevinter idea", as you simplisitically put it. And there are more than just the loyalists who wish to have reformed circles or no circles at all, rather than full on mage supremacy. 

yes and we have also aequitarians who are such idiots that don't know wheather they want be controled like dogs with loyalists or blow everything with libertarians going toward second tevinter or just abomnation army.Lucrosians who want power as well and smartest isolationists but practically small in numbers.And yep lucrosians ,  libertarians and now aequitarians who don't know what they do are helping to lead to tevinter.

[MisterJB]

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

Modifié par MisterJB, 04 novembre 2013 - 12:12 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

last sentece practically describes by that same just only on other side and that what we have now i m for killing mages dic*** but at least not sadism and quick death. 

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

last sentece practically describes by that same just only on other side and that what we have now i m for killing mages dic*** but at least not sadism and quick death. 

And as we have stated numerous times, if you rid the world of mages, you succumb to the Blight, plus you already have the Qunari knocking on your doors as it is already.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

Not going to work simply because it will go on 1 side if non-mages will get bigger power over mages it will simply be more and more slowly and we back to now or simply mages get more and more and it will end tevinter.

eluvianix wrote...

And as we have stated numerous times,
if you rid the world of mages, you succumb to the Blight, plus you
already have the Qunari knocking on your doors as it is already.

Nope i think that world can handle qunari or at least match them but still how much forces they have we don't know about but still they are rather possible to defeat if they weren't qunari invasion would be end of da and still we don't even know whether mages are needed for grey wardens and even if they are few mages should be enough and i still don't belive in that great power normal mages.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 novembre 2013 - 12:24 .

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

Not going to work simply because it will go on 1 side if non-mages will get bigger power over mages it will simply be more and more slowly and we back to now or simply mages get more and more and it will end tevinter.

Again, you act like Tevinter is the only possible eventuality if mages are given more say in things. This is a wholly different world than the one in which Tevinter was born.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope i think that world can handle qunari or at least match them but still how much forces they have we don't know about but still they are rather possible to defeat if they weren't qunari invasion would be end of da and still we don't even know whether mages are needed for grey wardens and even if they are few mages should be enough and i still don't belive in that great power normal mages.

Yes, we do know that. Mages make the Joining potions. And so you would just advocate culling the mages, till there just enough to fulfill your needs?

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

Not going to work simply because it will go on 1 side if non-mages will get bigger power over mages it will simply be more and more slowly and we back to now or simply mages get more and more and it will end tevinter.

Again, you act like Tevinter is the only possible eventuality if mages are given more say in things. This is a wholly different world than the one in which Tevinter was born.

Because it will not necessarily in tevinter specifically it will end something similar one side will end abusing other well perhaps if they send mages on some kind of island and kill everyone who will try return then it may work but both can't be together in one place.

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope
i think that world can handle qunari or at least match them but still
how much forces they have we don't know about but still they are rather
possible to defeat if they weren't qunari invasion would be end of da
and still we don't even know whether mages are needed for grey wardens
and even if they are few mages should be enough and i still don't belive
in that great power normal mages.

Yes, we do
know that. Mages make the Joining potions. And so you would just
advocate culling the mages, till there just enough to fulfill your
needs?

Well yep da is dark fantasy it is cynical world death or terrible life for mages you can take that like killing avelline husband. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 novembre 2013 - 12:31 .

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

I might disagree with the application but not with the principle you proposed. Of course, mages and non-mages are already supposed to both have a say in the matter. It's why no mage can be made Tranquil without a First Enchanter's permit.

I don't really believe there can ever not be emnity between mages and the police created specifically to deal with mages. Or between mages and normals in general, for that matter.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

This is exactly why I avoided referring Tevinter in my original post; because I knew the inevitable response would be "Not every mage is a Tevinter".

It has nothing to do with Tevinter in particular. People who are supposed to protect others need to actually have some investment in keeping these safe.
It has been historically documented that when a group is supposed to police themselves for the protection of a different group, security can become quite lax. This happens in Tevinter, yes, where the mages have absolutely no interest in protecting the interests of non-mages but also in other parts of Thedas such as Andrastian cities where elves may quickly discover the law rarely applies to them.

This is a very simple fact: if non-mages are policing mages, then they'll have an interest in protecting other non-mages. The same is not necessarely applicable to mages policing each other. Maybe because they'll don't care about non-mages; maybe because they'll have a bias that will make them believe the mage over the non-mage; or maybe because they'll simply benefit from placing mages over non-mages.

Hence why there needs to be non-mages policing mages.

But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

Not going to work simply because it will go on 1 side if non-mages will get bigger power over mages it will simply be more and more slowly and we back to now or simply mages get more and more and it will end tevinter.

Again, you act like Tevinter is the only possible eventuality if mages are given more say in things. This is a wholly different world than the one in which Tevinter was born.

Because it will not necessarily in tevinter specifically it will end something similar one side will end abusing other well perhaps if they send mages on some kind of island and kill everyone who will try return then it may work but both can't be together in one place.

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Nope
i think that world can handle qunari or at least match them but still
how much forces they have we don't know about but still they are rather
possible to defeat if they weren't qunari invasion would be end of da
and still we don't even know whether mages are needed for grey wardens
and even if they are few mages should be enough and i still don't belive
in that great power normal mages.

Yes, we do
know that. Mages make the Joining potions. And so you would just
advocate culling the mages, till there just enough to fulfill your
needs?

Well yep da is dark fantasy it is cynical world death or terrible life for mages you can take that like killing avelline husband. 

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
But again, what the current system leads to is enmity on both sides. Mages begin to resent their watchers and the same can happen to the watchers themselves. It would require a system involving BOTH to fix this problem. I do not advocate mages ruling themselves entirely. I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

I might disagree with the application but not with the principle you proposed. Of course, mages and non-mages are already supposed to both have a say in the matter. It's why no mage can be made Tranquil without a First Enchanter's permit.

I don't really believe there can ever not be emnity between mages and the police created specifically to deal with mages. Or between mages and normals in general, for that matter.

And if everyone actually paid attention to that rule, we might not be in this situation. And what I mean is more than just signing off on Tranquility or a Harrowing. I mean helping to decide how best to repair and reform the Circles, deciding how best to fix mage policy in Thedas.

And perhaps enmity was a bad word, considering it is inevitable between the two groups. But I was referring specifically to the abuses that are committed from one group to the next.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

Problem can't be solved as i said mages will not ever ever will be part of non-mages society because peoples will always hate them and fear them and crap that is even in idealistic settings but there it somhow it is possible to exist together but still there is much hate and fear and they can't turn into abomination in every second of their life and now we have abomnations what even give more hate and fear.So you will get mages controled which mean that you give somone power over them and that will lead to abuses as we seen because non-mages simply don't care about mages like humans don't care about elves or just simply mages will control others and it will abuses only in mages side.Middle ground is mages freedom when no one controls each other but as mages are more powerful they will outshine non-mages eventually leading to mages control.
 
It loks like that

Mages control-----<<----no one of them is in control-->>------non-mages control

And it will swing sooner or latter.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

Problem can't be solved as i said mages will not ever ever will be part of non-mages society because peoples will always hate them and fear them and crap that is even in idealistic settings but there it somhow it is possible to exist together but still there is much hate and fear and they can't turn into abomination in every second of their life and now we have abomnations what even give more hate and fear.So you will get mages controled which mean that you give somone power over them and that will lead to abuses as we seen because non-mages simply don't care about mages like humans don't care about elves or just simply mages will control others and it will abuses only in mages side.Middle ground is mages freedom when no one controls each other but as mages are more powerful they will outshine non-mages eventually leading to mages control.
 
It loks like that

Mages control-----<<----no one of them is in control-->>------non-mages control

And it will swing sooner or latter.

Or, believe it or not, we could have a society where both share the power. How can we know what will happen until we try it?

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yes but how big chances are that non-mage will be possessed almost none because demon must be forced by mage or somehow get to real world what without mage is possible only by torn veil and there is no other way without mage there is no demons.

Since humans have a tendency of killing each other a torn veil was inevtivable

So if it was inevitable, then exactly what do you expect the Templars to do to prevent it?

The current templars? absolutely ****ing nothing. They are to weak, ignorant and lack the skills to close a fade tear. doesnt excuse their incompetence however.

But if you want to make a start i suggest the first rule would be : do not become red lyrium demon lovers.

Ah so basically you are just talking ****, because you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking. Nothing new I guess. Moving on.

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with ideas  what the order can do to prevent fade tears and demonic invasions. The fact the templar order cannot prvent fade tears in fact they are corrupted and became red templars. and yet this is the order you support? And i wonder why your supporting such inept organisation that also is guilty of treason and heresy?

Modifié par DKJaigen, 04 novembre 2013 - 12:58 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

Problem can't be solved as i said mages will not ever ever will be part of non-mages society because peoples will always hate them and fear them and crap that is even in idealistic settings but there it somhow it is possible to exist together but still there is much hate and fear and they can't turn into abomination in every second of their life and now we have abomnations what even give more hate and fear.So you will get mages controled which mean that you give somone power over them and that will lead to abuses as we seen because non-mages simply don't care about mages like humans don't care about elves or just simply mages will control others and it will abuses only in mages side.Middle ground is mages freedom when no one controls each other but as mages are more powerful they will outshine non-mages eventually leading to mages control.
 
It loks like that

Mages control-----<<----no one of them is in control-->>------non-mages control

And it will swing sooner or latter.

Or, believe it or not, we could have a society where both share the power. How can we know what will happen until we try it?

Won't happen it will swing to that who is stronger because non-mages don't care about mages and they will want control them and mages will want control non-mages.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 novembre 2013 - 12:59 .