4643 réponses à ce sujet

[DKJaigen]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

Problem can't be solved as i said mages will not ever ever will be part of non-mages society because peoples will always hate them and fear them and crap that is even in idealistic settings but there it somhow it is possible to exist together but still there is much hate and fear and they can't turn into abomination in every second of their life and now we have abomnations what even give more hate and fear.So you will get mages controled which mean that you give somone power over them and that will lead to abuses as we seen because non-mages simply don't care about mages like humans don't care about elves or just simply mages will control others and it will abuses only in mages side.Middle ground is mages freedom when no one controls each other but as mages are more powerful they will outshine non-mages eventually leading to mages control.
 
It loks like that

Mages control-----<<----no one of them is in control-->>------non-mages control

And it will swing sooner or latter.

Or, believe it or not, we could have a society where both share the power. How can we know what will happen until we try it?

Won't happen it will swing to that who is stronger.

Why do you have a problem with that? i rahter e ruled by competent strong people then incompetent weak people. if mages are stronger so be it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

Problem can't be solved as i said mages will not ever ever will be part of non-mages society because peoples will always hate them and fear them and crap that is even in idealistic settings but there it somhow it is possible to exist together but still there is much hate and fear and they can't turn into abomination in every second of their life and now we have abomnations what even give more hate and fear.So you will get mages controled which mean that you give somone power over them and that will lead to abuses as we seen because non-mages simply don't care about mages like humans don't care about elves or just simply mages will control others and it will abuses only in mages side.Middle ground is mages freedom when no one controls each other but as mages are more powerful they will outshine non-mages eventually leading to mages control.
 
It loks like that

Mages control-----<<----no one of them is in control-->>------non-mages control

And it will swing sooner or latter.

Or, believe it or not, we could have a society where both share the power. How can we know what will happen until we try it?

Won't happen it will swing to that who is stronger.

Why do you have a problem with that? i rahter e ruled by competent strong people then incompetent weak people. if mages are stronger so be it.

well count that non-mages want control mages and don't care about them so it will end abuses and mages don't care about non-mages and want control them so it will end abuses.

[Hellion Rex]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yes but how big chances are that non-mage will be possessed almost none because demon must be forced by mage or somehow get to real world what without mage is possible only by torn veil and there is no other way without mage there is no demons.

Since humans have a tendency of killing each other a torn veil was inevtivable

So if it was inevitable, then exactly what do you expect the Templars to do to prevent it?

The current templars? absolutely ****ing nothing. They are to weak, ignorant and lack the skills to close a fade tear. doesnt excuse their incompetence however.

But if you want to make a start i suggest the first rule would be : do not become red lyrium demon lovers.

Ah so basically you are just talking ****, because you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking. Nothing new I guess. Moving on.

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with idea what the order can to prevent fade tears.

I am pro-mage all the way dude, and I still think the Order is pretty **** strong, all things considered. As for what they can do to help, Templars can rid or cleanse an area of magic, no? While maybe unable to close a tear entirely, could they possibly weaken a tear's effect on the surrounding environment? Maybe doing so could make it harder to demons to fully manifest when they cross over. Templars, at the very least, can help fight off demons much better than the average soldier who has never encountered one. And another point, Templars can sense ambient magic, right? So why can't they help to locate the tears? Because I am pretty sure that the tears are pretty much pure magic.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Well, considering the possible abuses on both sides, should we not try to fix the problem? And also, if you were to even try putting mages out on "some island", for one, none of them would do it. And two, you would have just as much conflict as you do now, if not more so because of such an inane plan.

Also, considering that Aveline's husband was dying of the Taint, that was a mercy killing, and do not even try to connect killing mages to that example.

Problem can't be solved as i said mages will not ever ever will be part of non-mages society because peoples will always hate them and fear them and crap that is even in idealistic settings but there it somhow it is possible to exist together but still there is much hate and fear and they can't turn into abomination in every second of their life and now we have abomnations what even give more hate and fear.So you will get mages controled which mean that you give somone power over them and that will lead to abuses as we seen because non-mages simply don't care about mages like humans don't care about elves or just simply mages will control others and it will abuses only in mages side.Middle ground is mages freedom when no one controls each other but as mages are more powerful they will outshine non-mages eventually leading to mages control.
 
It loks like that

Mages control-----<<----no one of them is in control-->>------non-mages control

And it will swing sooner or latter.

Or, believe it or not, we could have a society where both share the power. How can we know what will happen until we try it?

Won't happen it will swing to that who is stronger.

Why do you have a problem with that? i rahter e ruled by competent strong people then incompetent weak people. if mages are stronger so be it.

well count that non-mages want control mages and don't care about them so it will end abuses and mages don't care about non-mages and want control them so it will end abuses.

Not everyone wants control. How hard is that for you to understand? What about the average person who just wants to live normally? Both mages and non mages. While there are zealots on both sides, there just as many, if not more, that do not desire mage or non mage supremacy. They just want to live their lives, free.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

Not everyone wants control. How hard is that for you to understand? What about the average person who just wants to live normally? Both mages and non mages. While there are zealots on both sides, there just as many, if not more, that do not desire mage or non mage supremacy. They just want to live their lives, free.

See tevinter how many of them wanted control?But still it ended that way and it will end that way and others will go with that who want control just for comfort like non-mages followed chantry and mages followed tevinter. See now do you think that normal peoples who aren't in control care about what that in control is doing to mages and mages who don't want control won't care about what mages in control will do to non-mages.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 novembre 2013 - 01:10 .

[DKJaigen]

eluvianix wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yes but how big chances are that non-mage will be possessed almost none because demon must be forced by mage or somehow get to real world what without mage is possible only by torn veil and there is no other way without mage there is no demons.

Since humans have a tendency of killing each other a torn veil was inevtivable

So if it was inevitable, then exactly what do you expect the Templars to do to prevent it?

The current templars? absolutely ****ing nothing. They are to weak, ignorant and lack the skills to close a fade tear. doesnt excuse their incompetence however.

But if you want to make a start i suggest the first rule would be : do not become red lyrium demon lovers.

Ah so basically you are just talking ****, because you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking. Nothing new I guess. Moving on.

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with idea what the order can to prevent fade tears.

I am pro-mage all the way dude, and I still think the Order is pretty **** strong, all things considered. As for what they can do to help, Templars can rid or cleanse an area of magic, no? While maybe unable to close a tear entirely, could they possibly weaken a tear's effect on the surrounding environment? Maybe doing so could make it harder to demons to fully manifest when they cross over. Templars, at the very least, can help fight off demons much better than the average soldier who has never encountered one. And another point, Templars can sense ambient magic, right? So why can't they help to locate the tears? Because I am pretty sure that the tears are pretty much pure magic.

Good arguments. But demons are masters of bloodmagic which the templars cannot resist. furthermore demons also come equiped with tremendous physical strenght. This combination has that led we have not seen a templar(s) prevail against a group of demons. I doubt they will be effective against an army of demons

[DKJaigen]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Not everyone wants control. How hard is that for you to understand? What about the average person who just wants to live normally? Both mages and non mages. While there are zealots on both sides, there just as many, if not more, that do not desire mage or non mage supremacy. They just want to live their lives, free.

See tevinter how many of them wanted control?But still it ended that way and it will end that way and others will go with that who want control just for comfort like non-mages followed chantry and mages followed tevinter.

Tevinter is not a valid argument. mages in tevinter come from the noble houses which gives a vastly different culture.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Not everyone wants control. How hard is that for you to understand? What about the average person who just wants to live normally? Both mages and non mages. While there are zealots on both sides, there just as many, if not more, that do not desire mage or non mage supremacy. They just want to live their lives, free.

See tevinter how many of them wanted control?But still it ended that way and it will end that way and others will go with that who want control just for comfort like non-mages followed chantry and mages followed tevinter. See now do you think that normal peoples who aren't in control care about what that in control is doing to mages and mages who don't want control won't care about what mages in control will do to non-mages.

But the state of Thedas is hardly comparable to as it was when Tevinter was born. It was a wholly different world, with different circumstances. We do not know how this world would react to having mages gain a little more freedom to what they have previously been subjected to.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I honestly hope if people chooses to go either pro-Templar or pro-Mage it backfires on them

Both sides surely have merit. And neither side is wholly right either. 

But pro-templar isn't right about anything that they disagree with pro-mage on.

Strange, that's not what you've conceded in the past, Xilizhra.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

Eradicating a population groupd based on grounds of ideology, without even the excuse of an existentional threat to justify it? Very nice, Xilizhra.

[Hellion Rex]

DKJaigen wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yes but how big chances are that non-mage will be possessed almost none because demon must be forced by mage or somehow get to real world what without mage is possible only by torn veil and there is no other way without mage there is no demons.

Since humans have a tendency of killing each other a torn veil was inevtivable

So if it was inevitable, then exactly what do you expect the Templars to do to prevent it?

The current templars? absolutely ****ing nothing. They are to weak, ignorant and lack the skills to close a fade tear. doesnt excuse their incompetence however.

But if you want to make a start i suggest the first rule would be : do not become red lyrium demon lovers.

Ah so basically you are just talking ****, because you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking. Nothing new I guess. Moving on.

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with idea what the order can to prevent fade tears.

I am pro-mage all the way dude, and I still think the Order is pretty **** strong, all things considered. As for what they can do to help, Templars can rid or cleanse an area of magic, no? While maybe unable to close a tear entirely, could they possibly weaken a tear's effect on the surrounding environment? Maybe doing so could make it harder to demons to fully manifest when they cross over. Templars, at the very least, can help fight off demons much better than the average soldier who has never encountered one. And another point, Templars can sense ambient magic, right? So why can't they help to locate the tears? Because I am pretty sure that the tears are pretty much pure magic.

Good arguments. But demons are masters of bloodmagic which the templars cannot resist. furthermore demons also come equiped with tremendous physical strenght. This combination has that led we have not seen a templar(s) prevail against a group of demons. I doubt they will be effective against an army of demons

If that were true, we would be up to our ears in abominations. But nonetheless, I do not think the demons are that much of an "army" either. Based on what I have seen of the demons, it seems that they are more of an "Every demon for themselves" kind of group, as opposed to a cohesive fighting group.

[Hellion Rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

Eradicating a population groupd based on grounds of ideology, without even the excuse of an existentional threat to justify it? Very nice, Xilizhra.

Xil was referring to the order, Dean. Plus, Xil has already claimed to accept converts and surrender.

[TheKomandorShepard]

DKJaigen wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Not everyone wants control. How hard is that for you to understand? What about the average person who just wants to live normally? Both mages and non mages. While there are zealots on both sides, there just as many, if not more, that do not desire mage or non mage supremacy. They just want to live their lives, free.

See tevinter how many of them wanted control?But still it ended that way and it will end that way and others will go with that who want control just for comfort like non-mages followed chantry and mages followed tevinter.

Tevinter is not a valid argument. mages in tevinter come from the noble houses which gives a vastly different culture.

And yet it is second time that mages after geting freedom ended as tevinter.

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Not everyone
wants control. How hard is that for you to understand? What about the
average person who just wants to live normally? Both mages and non
mages. While there are zealots on both sides, there just as many, if not
more, that do not desire mage or non mage supremacy. They just want to
live their lives, free.

See tevinter how many of them wanted control?But
still it ended that way and it will end that way and others will go
with that who want control just for comfort like non-mages followed
chantry and mages followed tevinter. See now do you think that normal
peoples who aren't in control care about what that in control is doing
to mages and mages who don't want control won't care about what mages in
control will do to non-mages.

But the state of
Thedas is hardly comparable to as it was when Tevinter was born. It was a
wholly different world, with different circumstances. We do not know
how this world would react to having mages gain a little more freedom to
what they have previously been subjected to.

We know how world reacts on mages now and it hardly is love.

[Dean_the_Young]

eluvianix wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Same, but before I make any deals with the Chantry, they first have to split from the Templar Order.

Conveniently, that's already done. When the templars are eradicated, something new can be built.

Eradicating a population groupd based on grounds of ideology, without even the excuse of an existentional threat to justify it? Very nice, Xilizhra.

Xil was referring to the order, Dean. Plus, Xil has already claimed to accept converts and surrender.

You'll find that, as far as the international standard is concerned, it doesn't really matter. Genocide can be a result of targetting non-ethnic social groups- religion is the key one in the UN charter, but we generall accept the eliminations of other, non-ethnic groups as well. Xil in particular should be sensitive to those, since Xil would be an explicit target in some of them.

And, really, what's one of the key pillars of consituting a genocide?


© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Xil's conceptualization of 'converts and surrender' also include mandatory ideological indoctrination before being released, and in the past has included follow-on surveilance of such people for the rest of their lives as well as permanent political marginalization.

But then, Xil's tendencies towards unaccountable autocracies that favor particular groups is pretty well established at this point. What is a sin for thee is not for she.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 04 novembre 2013 - 01:35 .

[TEWR]

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

Always been my stance, minus the "Templars go back to Inquisition" bit. I had said they should be independent from the Chantry though, as should the Seekers.

[Schneidend]

Lord Raijin wrote...

And that my dear friend is the reason why the Chantry vs Mages exists. The Chantry spreads fear by telling everyone that the very exstence of mages puts everyone around them endangered. This indoctrination is what causes some non-mages parents to become quite fearful of their mage children, and sometimes downright disown them. This causes a lot of resentments to those very same mages, which some produces a rebellious attitude.

Mages represent a danger regardless of Chantry propaganda. I'm not suggesting the Chantry is squeaky clean, or that the current system is the best one, but mages NEED non-mage supervision from people with authority, even if only as a precaution in case they turn.

Non-mages don't need to be possessed to become a dangerous individual. They don't need to have magical powers either. The fact that a suppose caring Revered Mother from Lothering with a psychopathic mindlike was more than willing to allow a prisoner die from a slow angoy death inside some cage rather than to execute him on sight for his crimes. This includes the starving prisoner in Ostagar.

How can non-mages save society from these dangerous mages when they themselves are just as dangerous if not more?

1. Non-mages can't annihilate townships by thinking about it, or even NOT thinking about it.

2. Sten was a mass murderer. He's infinitely more dangerous than Lothering's Revered Mother. Granted, though, the Mother in Lothering is a stupid cow for refusing to accept the Rite of Conscription, but that's an entirely separate issue.

3. The prisoner at Ostagar was a deserter. He was doomed from the start.

4. Again, mages can shoot fire out of their brains. Any suggestion that they're less dangerous than a non-mage is laughable.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
The current templars? absolutely ****ing nothing. They are to weak, ignorant and lack the skills to close a fade tear. doesnt excuse their incompetence however.

But if you want to make a start i suggest the first rule would be : do not become red lyrium demon lovers.

But what if the Red Lyrium gives you the abiltiy to close veil tears?

And no - not expecting something that never happened before, or not having a plan for an apocalyppctic scenario that you can't reasonably do nothing again, does not make you incompetent.

And agin, explain to me why it is the Chantry's duty to close the veil tares over the world? Should it not be the responsibility of individual kingdoms? Or mages? Heck, mages have free running of every day circle life - why isn't "learn how to close veil tears" on the top of their to-do list?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...
The Chantry choosed to inflict war against the mages over an inaccurate pretense, and using it to spread lies and fear to society for the sole purpose to get them on their side.

Except there is no innacurate pretence or lies.

What are you talking about? Were talking about non-mages not being immuned to demonic posssession. The fact that they too are at riask for demonic posessesion, and not just mages.

The very image you posted, the very line clearly suggest that mundanes becing possesed is something templars don't normally worry about because it's so rare - and because the resulting creature is far weaker than a true abomination.
And in the image was reffering to peopel being FORCIBLY possesed thanks to BLOOD MAGIC (a.k.a.  mages)

Thus all your example proves is that mages are even more dangerous.

And why not? Why are you opposed self policing? Mages can police themselves if they were given the opportunity to.

And this coming from a man who thinks templars shouldn't police themselves...
Tell you what, think of reasons why templars shouldn't police themselves, multiply it by a thousand, and maybe then you'll figure it out.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...
And that my dear friend is the reason why the Chantry vs Mages exists. The Chantry spreads fear by telling everyone that the very exstence of mages puts everyone around them endangered. This indoctrination is what causes some non-mages parents to become quite fearful of their mage children, and sometimes downright disown them. This causes a lot of resentments to those very same mages, which some produces a rebellious attitude.

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

Non-mages don't need to be possessed to become a dangerous individual. They don't need to have magical powers either. The fact that a suppose caring Revered Mother from Lothering with a psychopathic mindlike was more than willing to allow a prisoner die from a slow angoy death inside some cage rather than to execute him on sight for his crimes. This includes the starving prisoner in Ostagar.

How can non-mages save society from these dangerous mages when they themselves are just as dangerous if not more?

Because they're not more dangerous?
Mages can do every bad thing mundanes can, only they can do it better (or in the context of morality, worse). And they also have demons whispering to them in their sleep. Truly a great combination for world peace.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 04 novembre 2013 - 07:45 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I merely suggest that both mages and nonmages have a say in the matter.

Don't they allready? The daily running of the Circle is under the control of he Enchanters. On matters of security the First Enchanter and Knight-Commander work together (in theory).
Even in Kirkwall, Meredith practicly needed consent to perform a tower search.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
Good arguments. But demons are masters of bloodmagic which the templars cannot resist. furthermore demons also come equiped with tremendous physical strenght. This combination has that led we have not seen a templar(s) prevail against a group of demons. I doubt they will be effective against an army of demons

False. Templars can resist it, since blood magic is in essence a differnet method of fueling spells - they're still the same magic. Spells like that have more power behind them so they are harder to resist, true - but they still can be resisted.

And templars are well-equipped, well-trained warriors in adition to their templar powers.

by someone
And if everyone actually paid attention to that rule, we might not be in
this situation. And what I mean is more than just signing off on
Tranquility or a Harrowing. I mean helping to decide how best to repair
and reform the Circles, deciding how best to fix mage policy in Thedas.

Wasn't that what the meeting at White Spire was all about?
The one the mages highjacked?

[HiroVoid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Circles should be used as boarding schools and the Templars should still look for children with Magical abilities so they can attend. All Mages should submit a phylactery and register their name at the Templar branches and if they desire to move to a new location they must first ask for permission from their local branch and submit a notice to the branch at the new location before they can move. Any Mage who destorys their phylactery and/or does not report in should be investigated immediately. Any Mage dealing with blood magic and demon summoning, depending on their crime, should be made tranquil or executed.

Always been my stance, minus the "Templars go back to Inquisition" bit. I had said they should be independent from the Chantry though, as should the Seekers.

I mostly agree with this, but the problem I see is how to keep control of these institutions away from the individual nations.  A big reason for the chantry controlling the circles in the first place is because they're one of the few international organizations in Thedas who everyone (aside from the Qunari) pays respect to.

Also, the starving prisoner at Ostagar wasn't going to be left to starve to death.  He was just forgotten about for a bit(though not enough to still not be guarded) while everyone else was worrying about the darkspawn.  He probably would have been executed once the battle was over.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 04 novembre 2013 - 08:01 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with ideas  what the order can do to prevent fade tears and demonic invasions. The fact the templar order cannot prvent fade tears in fact they are corrupted and became red templars. and yet this is the order you support? And i wonder why your supporting such inept organisation that also is guilty of treason and heresy?

No. I am asking you to defend your own words. You are blaming the Templars for not having prepared for an inevitable situation, which would have been impossible to predict. Then I ask YOU to back it up, by presenting a possible way the Templars should have been able to predict this situation, and exactly what they could ahve done to prevent it.
Instead you go on and on (again) about Red Templars (who we know nothing about) and heresy (which is not even fitting). S basically I am just calling you on your bull****, and you once again fail spectacularly to back up your own ****** claims.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with ideas  what the order can do to prevent fade tears and demonic invasions. The fact the templar order cannot prvent fade tears in fact they are corrupted and became red templars. and yet this is the order you support? And i wonder why your supporting such inept organisation that also is guilty of treason and heresy?

No. I am asking you to defend your own words. You are blaming the Templars for not having prepared for an inevitable situation, which would have been impossible to predict. Then I ask YOU to back it up, by presenting a possible way the Templars should have been able to predict this situation, and exactly what they could ahve done to prevent it.
Instead you go on and on (again) about Red Templars (who we know nothing about) and heresy (which is not even fitting). S basically I am just calling you on your bull****, and you once again fail spectacularly to back up your own ****** claims.

Ahhh such delicious denial. But to bad for you the demo made it clear that the red templars are at best trying  to prevent the inquisition from closing fade tears at worst they are in cahoots with the whoever is creating fade tears. So lets hve an overview of their crimes.

1. heresy : going against the divine and against the chantry.
2. treason: Inciting a war on the soil of orlais is treason agains the imperial court and orlais.
3.corruption: use of red lyrium has deranged the red templars the best course of action would be an annulment.
4. crimes against humanity: in addition of their incredibly bad treatment of mages they are now actively endangering humanity by aiding the demons.

And despite what your saying failing to anticipate the demon invasion makes the templars just incompetent. So why should we support them?

False. Templars can resist it, since blood magic is in essence a
differnet method of fueling spells - they're still the same magic.
Spells like that have more power behind them so they are harder to
resist, true - but they still can be resisted.

And templars are well-equipped, well-trained warriors in adition to their templar powers.

keep your fanfiction out of the debate lotion. its established in lore , ingame mechanic and books that templars have no resistance against this form of magic.

And agin, explain to me why it is the Chantry's duty to close the
veil tares over the world? Should it not be the responsibility of
individual kingdoms? Or mages? Heck, mages have free running of every
day circle life - why isn't "learn how to close veil tears" on the top
of their to-do list?'

Thats a weird question? why should the templars and chantry be responsible for the mages if their first priority is not defending this world from demons? if that is not their responsiblityi dont see why the templars or chantry have any businiss inside the circle

Modifié par DKJaigen, 04 novembre 2013 - 09:38 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Your putting me into a position where i have to protect the templar order . why dont you come  with ideas  what the order can do to prevent fade tears and demonic invasions. The fact the templar order cannot prvent fade tears in fact they are corrupted and became red templars. and yet this is the order you support? And i wonder why your supporting such inept organisation that also is guilty of treason and heresy?

No. I am asking you to defend your own words. You are blaming the Templars for not having prepared for an inevitable situation, which would have been impossible to predict. Then I ask YOU to back it up, by presenting a possible way the Templars should have been able to predict this situation, and exactly what they could ahve done to prevent it.
Instead you go on and on (again) about Red Templars (who we know nothing about) and heresy (which is not even fitting). S basically I am just calling you on your bull****, and you once again fail spectacularly to back up your own ****** claims.

Ahhh such delicious denial. But to bad for you the demo made it clear that the red templars are at best trying  to prevent the inquisition from closing fade tears at worst they are in cahoots with the whoever is creating fade tears. So lets hve an overview of their crimes.

1. heresy : going against the divine and against the chantry.
2. treason: Inciting a war on the soil of orlais is treason agains the imperial court and orlais.
3.corruption: use of red lyrium has deranged the red templars the best course of action would be an annulment.
4. crimes against humanity: in addition of their incredibly bad treatment of mages they are now actively endangering humanity by aiding the demons.

And despite what your saying failing to anticipate the demon invasion makes the templars just incompetent. So why should we support them?

1: If the source of the rift was a religious matter, then yes it would be heresy. However it is a political matter, and as such it isn't heresy. I'm sure some Chantry people will try to pass it off as such. It doesn't make it true though.
2: Since the Templars doesn't hold an loyalty to Orlais, and nor does Orlais hold any authority over the Templars, it technically isn't treason.
3: We don't know ANYTHING about Red Templars. All we know is that they are fighting the Inquisition. That is it. Yet you have already filled your head with your own canon and bull****, and now you try to pass it off as truth. While I am sure the Red Templars will remain an enemy, I am not going to claim knowledge of their reasons or their main objective.
4: Again, we don't know what the Red Templars are trying to achive, nor is tehre any proof that the Red Templars are ALL that remains of the Templar order. So basically you are full of ****, and you are trying to spread it around.

And EVERYONE failed to anticipate this demonic "invasion", since it was unprecedented and probably believed impossible. So if you want to claim incompetence, palce the blame on ALL of Thedas, instead of jsut the organization you are biased against.

DKJaigen wrote...

False. Templars can resist it, since blood magic is in essence a
differnet method of fueling spells - they're still the same magic.
Spells like that have more power behind them so they are harder to
resist, true - but they still can be resisted.

And templars are well-equipped, well-trained warriors in adition to their templar powers.

keep your fanfiction out of the debate lotion. its established in lore , ingame mechanic and books that templars have no resistance against this form of magic.

 
Actually what is established in the lore, is that Templars aren't able to prevent blood magic. They are able to cut off a mage from his mana, but not his blood. But in terms of resistance, the Templars are just as resistant to blood magic as they are to normal magic. It is just that his best weapons against mages, are useless against a blood mage.