4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I think combining mages with the templars isn't nearly enough. Simply put, a governing body cannot be considered legitimate without representing the people it governs. As such, I think that, if there's some sort of peace to be had, the Circle has to be added to the Chantry itself as another governing body.

My belief at the moment is that the Circle officials would have equal rank but different areas of operation, with First Enchanter being equal to Grand Cleric, and so on, with the mage offices having the responsibility of running the Circle, the others maintaining the spirituality of the mundane population and all that. The templars would be split into two branches, with one guarding the Circle and the other keeping watch outside of it, with the mage and mundane chains of command respectively being in charge of them.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

Well, the alternative is that the entire segregated society model is dropped, along with the idea of Circles. Also, the point of the rebellion is that the templars are trying to kill them all, and were absolutely intolerable before.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think combining mages with the templars isn't nearly enough. Simply put, a governing body cannot be considered legitimate without representing the people it governs. As such, I think that, if there's some sort of peace to be had, the Circle has to be added to the Chantry itself as another governing body.

My belief at the moment is that the Circle officials would have equal rank but different areas of operation, with First Enchanter being equal to Grand Cleric, and so on, with the mage offices having the responsibility of running the Circle, the others maintaining the spirituality of the mundane population and all that. The templars would be split into two branches, with one guarding the Circle and the other keeping watch outside of it, with the mage and mundane chains of command respectively being in charge of them.

It sounds like a very good idea. The question is, how would we implement it considering there will be a decent bit of opposition on both sides?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

Well, the alternative is that the entire segregated society model is dropped, along with the idea of Circles. Also, the point of the rebellion is that the templars are trying to kill them all, and were absolutely intolerable before.

Technically, it is Lambert's templars, but that is still a considerable percentage of the order.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Chantry is in charge and have folks on own side tell me how mages will protect themselves from abuses and will have power equal to chantry simple they won't.

ps and thats what circles were intended be in theory. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 novembre 2013 - 09:57 .

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think combining mages with the templars isn't nearly enough. Simply put, a governing body cannot be considered legitimate without representing the people it governs. As such, I think that, if there's some sort of peace to be had, the Circle has to be added to the Chantry itself as another governing body.

My belief at the moment is that the Circle officials would have equal rank but different areas of operation, with First Enchanter being equal to Grand Cleric, and so on, with the mage offices having the responsibility of running the Circle, the others maintaining the spirituality of the mundane population and all that. The templars would be split into two branches, with one guarding the Circle and the other keeping watch outside of it, with the mage and mundane chains of command respectively being in charge of them.

It sounds like a very good idea. The question is, how would we implement it considering there will be a decent bit of opposition on both sides?

That's less clear. But if the mages put this forth to the Chantry, if they can form an actual alliance, the Chantry's word could lead to a relatively smoother victory against the renegade templars, and if peace can be achieved that way, it might be enough of an incentive for enough of the Chantry to back the plan.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think combining mages with the templars isn't nearly enough. Simply put, a governing body cannot be considered legitimate without representing the people it governs. As such, I think that, if there's some sort of peace to be had, the Circle has to be added to the Chantry itself as another governing body.

My belief at the moment is that the Circle officials would have equal rank but different areas of operation, with First Enchanter being equal to Grand Cleric, and so on, with the mage offices having the responsibility of running the Circle, the others maintaining the spirituality of the mundane population and all that. The templars would be split into two branches, with one guarding the Circle and the other keeping watch outside of it, with the mage and mundane chains of command respectively being in charge of them.

It sounds like a very good idea. The question is, how would we implement it considering there will be a decent bit of opposition on both sides?

That's less clear. But if the mages put this forth to the Chantry, if they can form an actual alliance, the Chantry's word could lead to a relatively smoother victory against the renegade templars, and if peace can be achieved that way, it might be enough of an incentive for enough of the Chantry to back the plan.

True. The Chantry's backing, under the Divine, could help to smooth the process.

Modifié par eluvianix, 04 novembre 2013 - 09:56 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

[Warden661]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Schneidend wrote...
Mages represent a danger regardless of Chantry propaganda. I'm not suggesting the Chantry is squeaky clean, or that the current system is the best one, but mages NEED non-mage supervision from people with authority, even if only as a precaution in case they turn.

So does a typical currupted politicians who want nothing more than to have power and greed. Look how much damage they can cause to civilized society. Look at what the non-mages (Loghain Mac Tir @ Rendon Howe) did to the elves in Denerim Elven Alienage, even went as far as to allow the Tevinters to conduct their slavery business despite it being highly illegal in Ferelden. Loghain not only had his King killed by betraying him, but also started a civil war.... during a fricken BLIGHT!

Base on what I'm seeing here apparently it is the non-mages themselves that shopuld be supervised. They can't seem to behave themselves. Perhabs the Qunari should intervene and force them all to convert to the Qun, especially after what happen in DA2. 

I'm not too concerned about the mages themselves being bad people who will use their magic for evil purposes. I'm far more concerned with their succeptibility to demonic possessin. It's the demons that will do the most damage to the world. As a mage, it doesn't matter what type of person you are, you're dangerous because of the fact that you attract demons. This needs to be watched. 

This is what seperates a non-mage and a mage. Anyone can be a horrible person but mages can be possessed and we know that demons are not very nice.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Why are you saying that mundanes would be lorded over by mages?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Why are you saying that mundanes would be lorded over by mages?

Tevinter.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Why are you saying that mundanes would be lorded over by mages?

Tevinter.

And who is to say that it will be the same in this age?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Why are you saying that mundanes would be lorded over by mages?

Every time we have this discussion, they use Tevinter as if it automatically wins any argument against. It tends to get rather annoying.<_<

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Hard for mages to lord over the nonmages when Templars actually sit there on the same councils as the mages.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Tevinter is the proof which talks in mage control's favor. It is up to mages to prove that they can create a system where the amges doesn't end up ruling. Therefore creating a system ruled by a purely mage council, will not be in their favor.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Tevinter is the proof which talks in mage control's favor. It is up to mages to prove that they can create a system where the amges doesn't end up ruling. Therefore creating a system ruled by a purely mage council, will not be in their favor.

The Circles would rule only themselves, even under my own system.

[Warden661]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Why are you saying that mundanes would be lorded over by mages?

Tevinter.

And who is to say that it will be the same in this age?

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such. 

[Xilizhra]

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[Hellion Rex]

BoBear wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So mages wants to be considered "people", but they wont let "people" help govern them.... Seems legit.... If tehy by their very own rules admit that they are different, then what was the point of their tantrum to begin with?

First of all, do not debase it to being merely a "tantrum." If you actually read Xil's post, you would see that BOTH mages and mundanes would play a role in the new system. 

Yes. Mundanes would be lorded over by mages. If this was actually what resulted from the amge rebellion, it would have been a giant tantrum from the mages, basically because they would prove themselves wrong in the end.

Why are you saying that mundanes would be lorded over by mages?

Tevinter.

And who is to say that it will be the same in this age?

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such. 

Which is why non mages would have just as much as say as the mages would. 

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

And if the Circle would start to do so, we would still have the Templars on guard, just in case.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Templars are also in tevinter so it is still that same
and Why you ask? becuase this is human nature and it will never change and peoples always will be monsters.

[Xilizhra]

Which is why non mages would have just as much as say as the mages would.

Well, over matters not having to do with law within the Circles themselves, assuming we're still doing segregated societies.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Templars are also in tevinter so it is still that same
and Why you ask? becuase this is human nature and it will never change and peoples always will be monsters.

Yeah, but considering the Black Divine himself is a mage, that is partially why Templars in Tevinter work at the whims of the magisters.