4643 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

And if the Circle would start to do so, we would still have the Templars on guard, just in case.

Templars who Xil had recently almost slaughtered to a man, and who were empowered by... You guessed it... mages.... That is not exactly a utopia in the making.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

And if the Circle would start to do so, we would still have the Templars on guard, just in case.

Templars who Xil had recently almost slaughtered to a man, and who were empowered by... You guessed it... mages.... That is not exactly a utopia in the making.

That all depends on whether or not they surrender. And the templars outside the Circles aren't governed by the Circles.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So ultimately you would submit the Circles to the Chantry again?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

And if the Circle would start to do so, we would still have the Templars on guard, just in case.

Templars who Xil had recently almost slaughtered to a man, and who were empowered by... You guessed it... mages.... That is not exactly a utopia in the making.

That all depends on whether or not they surrender. And the templars outside the Circles aren't governed by the Circles.

Would they then still fall under the dominion of the Chantry?

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So ultimately you would submit the Circles to the Chantry again?

The Circles would be within the governing body of the Chantry and control themselves, as well as the templars guarding the Circles proper.

Would they then still fall under the dominion of the Chantry?

Let me clarify. The templars who are guarding the Circles are governed by the Circles. The ones elsewhere, hanging around in towns and the like, are run by the rest of the Chantry.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:32 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Templars are also in tevinter so it is still that same
and Why you ask? becuase this is human nature and it will never change and peoples always will be monsters.

Yeah, but considering the Black Divine himself is a mage, that is partially why Templars in Tevinter work at the whims of the magisters.

You can't share power you have to give someone and somone will end with more power and will gain more and more so non-mages or mages will be in charge best solution where mages live of course is completly separate both groups like isolationists want.
Something like isle of despair in arcanum

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:34 .

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

And if the Circle would start to do so, we would still have the Templars on guard, just in case.

Templars who Xil had recently almost slaughtered to a man, and who were empowered by... You guessed it... mages.... That is not exactly a utopia in the making.

I would not call anything borne out of this bloody and death filled mess a utopia. Nonetheless, it could be a better world, all the same.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So ultimately you would submit the Circles to the Chantry again?

The Circles would be within the governing body of the Chantry and control themselves, as well as the templars guarding the Circles proper.

Would they then still fall under the dominion of the Chantry?

Let me clarify. The templars who are guarding the Circles are governed by the Circles. The ones elsewhere, hanging around in towns and the like, are run by the rest of the Chantry.

Ok, thank you for the clarification.

Edit: I like that solution. But however, if we had true cause, who would give the Order for Annulment? 
Would the Chantry have that option or would it lie with the Circle's Templars?

Modifié par eluvianix, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:36 .

[Warden661]

Xilizhra wrote...

And who's to say that it wouldn't. The fact of the matter is that it is a possibility and should always be considered as such.

I'm sure the Chantry will be on the lookout for the Circles enslaving people, don't worry.

Yes, because that's exactley what I meant.

If you let the mages rule themselves I assume you mean that no other governing body has a say in what goes on in the Circles. This could possibly lead to a more organized form of a the rebellion that's happening right now. The mages would be more powerful and would be in a much better position to topple the chantry and anyone who opposed them. They would also be in a much better possion to practice blood magic which is a huge danger. I'm not saying that it will happen without a doubt, just that it could happen. 

[Xilizhra]

[quote]Edit: I like that solution. But however, if we had true cause, who would give the Order for Annulmenappening right now. The mages would be more powerful and would be in a much better position to topple the chantry and anyone who opposed them. They would also be in a much better possion to practice blood magic which is a huge danger. I'm not saying that it will happen without a doubt, just that it could happen.[/quote]
t?
Would the Chantry have that option or would it lie with the Circle's Templars?[/quote]
The Circle's templars might be able to call on reinforcements from the Chantry, but the objective is to deal with demons alone.

[Hellion Rex]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]Edit: I like that solution. But however, if we had true cause, who would give the Order for Annulmenappening right now. The mages would be more powerful and would be in a much better position to topple the chantry and anyone who opposed them. They would also be in a much better possion to practice blood magic which is a huge danger. I'm not saying that it will happen without a doubt, just that it could happen.[/quote]
t?
Would the Chantry have that option or would it lie with the Circle's Templars?[/quote]
The Circle's templars might be able to call on reinforcements from the Chantry, but the objective is to deal with demons alone.

[/quote]

Yeah, idk what happened to that edit. I had only asked as to what would happen in the need for an annulment. So Annulments would then fall under the dominion of Circle templars then.

Modifié par eluvianix, 04 novembre 2013 - 11:09 .

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
Hard for mages to lord over the nonmages when Templars actually sit there on the same councils as the mages.

Let's say there is a council formed by an equal merchant-princes and common peasants who, in theory, have equal say on decision-making. But the merchants have fortunes with which bribe officials, hire armies and just generally make life unpleasant for anyone who speaks against them. The peasants have the seat on the council, nothing else.
Would you like to take a guess as to whose voice will have greater weight on said council?

Would this be what would happen with this "council" of templars and mages? Maybe, maybe not. But the simple presence of someone at a table and the right to speak means, by itself, absolutely nothing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Stop spreading lies about me. It's not nice.

You specifically said, earlier in this very thread that the system was fine. Those were your words. It's not a lie if you said it.

EDIT: Here's the link of when you said it, in this very thread.

Granted, you also said that templars need more oversight, and I agree with that, but you pretty much said word for word that the system is fine.

Eeh... sarcasm can often escape you.
You know how when I argue with Xil I sometimes go "kill all mages" (despite me not wanting to kill them) just to mirror her fanaticism? Yeah, like that.

And the system is broadly fine - especially considering that this is TheDas. The oversight is what went completely fubar. You accuse me of not wanting to allow visits, or compromise on anything or insisting that there are no problems . all of this are false.
Especially the last one. You write that I claim there is no problem and then quote me saying that there is a problem.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, idk what happened to that edit. I had only asked as to what would happen in the need for an annulment. So Annulments would then fall under the dominion of Circle templars then.

Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yeah, idk what happened to that edit. I had only asked as to what would happen in the need for an annulment. So Annulments would then fall under the dominion of Circle templars then.

Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

Fair enough. There is a definitely a distinction between the two.

Edit: But we are nixing Tranquility altogether though as well, right?

Modifié par eluvianix, 04 novembre 2013 - 11:37 .

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Hard for mages to lord over the nonmages when Templars actually sit there on the same councils as the mages.

Let's say there is a council formed by an equal merchant-princes and common peasants who, in theory, have equal say on decision-making. But the merchants have fortunes with which bribe officials, hire armies and just generally make life unpleasant for anyone who speaks against them. The peasants have the seat on the council, nothing else.
Would you like to take a guess as to whose voice will have greater weight on said council?

Would this be what would happen with this "council" of templars and mages? Maybe, maybe not. But the simple presence of someone at a table and the right to speak means, by itself, absolutely nothing.

But surely that is a step in the right direction, no? What would you have happen to broker a compromise then?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Personally I believe the Circles should remain under the Chantry. Only under the Chantry can the mages be kept in control, and only there can the mages hope to achieve the lives they want (within reason). What Thedas needs right now is not more free mages. What Thedas need is education. Sadly a time of crisis is not the best time for education, and as such the Mages and Templars (and everyone else for that matter) must make sacrifices to achieve stability again. The status quo offered that stability.
With the improved general education of the masses of Thedas, the masses would also become increasingly capable of understanding magic. They would for example become more likely to understand that a mage child is not to blame for failed crops, but that it is probably an irrigation problem (it could still end up being the mage child, but I digress), and the commoners would be far less likely to punish innocent mages. This increased tolerance of mages would pay off in the long run.
The real problem arises when current mages, out of selfish desire wants freedom now, instead of for future generations. All they do, is create an enviroment of chaos, from which nothing can be built.

[Xilizhra]

Fair enough. There is a definitely a distinction between the two.

Edit: But we are nixing Tranquility altogether though as well, right?

Involuntary, certainly. Voluntary, you'll need a trial period and then curing to decide.

Personally I believe the Circles should remain under the Chantry. Only under the Chantry can the mages be kept in control, and only there can the mages hope to achieve the lives they want (within reason). What Thedas needs right now is not more free mages. What Thedas need is education. Sadly a time of crisis is not the best time for education, and as such the Mages and Templars (and everyone else for that matter) must make sacrifices to achieve stability again. The status quo offered that stability.

And my system offers just that.

The real problem arises when current mages, out of selfish desire wants freedom now, instead of for future generations. All they do, is create an enviroment of chaos, from which nothing can be built.

Far more pertinently, when templars can't change the Chantry's mind and resort to violence.

[Lord Raijin]

HiroVoid wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Gameplay. They're were plenty of it, especially in DA2. 

Heres what Mr. Gaider said in an interview regarding to templars and Lyrium. http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html
...

Alistair tells you, in dialogue, that he doesn't need lyrium to use his powers. It's not an issue of gameplay/story segregation if it is addressed in-character and in-universe as not being an issue.

Well, that was your problem with this theory.  You thought Alistair was right.  In the latest comics, Alistair suddenly remembered 'Oh wait!  I do need lyrium for templar abilities!' written by head writer of the series.

This pretty much summons it up.

[TEWR]

HiroVoid wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Gameplay. They're were plenty of it, especially in DA2. 

Heres what Mr. Gaider said in an interview regarding to templars and Lyrium. http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html
...

Alistair tells you, in dialogue, that he doesn't need lyrium to use his powers. It's not an issue of gameplay/story segregation if it is addressed in-character and in-universe as not being an issue.

Well, that was your problem with this theory.  You thought Alistair was right.  In the latest comics, Alistair suddenly remembered 'Oh wait!  I do need lyrium for templar abilities!' written by head writer of the series.

Y'know, it would've been simpler for them to just have Alistair say that while he didnt take his vows (and thus lyrium) while he was affiliated with the Chantry the Wardens supplied him with it, say the whole "Is it even necessary though? bit, and -- to a Templar prospect Warden -- "I'll give you some anytime we need it at camp".

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

Which would leave demons within your midst, there to corrupt more mages and escape.

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

Which would leave demons within your midst, there to corrupt more mages and escape.

Right...so killng demons leaves demons in our midst. Makes perfect, logical sense.

[RobRam10]

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

Which would leave demons within your midst, there to corrupt more mages and escape.

Right...so killng demons leaves demons in our midst. Makes perfect, logical sense.

Demonception.

[HiroVoid]

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

Which would leave demons within your midst, there to corrupt more mages and escape.

Right...so killng demons leaves demons in our midst. Makes perfect, logical sense.

He might be referring to how demons can possess a person and then look exactly like that person.....though I don't think this has really been used in the Dragon Age setting.

[wolfhowwl]

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Annulment wouldn't happen. Only killing demons, not all mages.

Which would leave demons within your midst, there to corrupt more mages and escape.

Right...so killng demons leaves demons in our midst. Makes perfect, logical sense.

The more intelligent demons/abominations wouldn't just reveal themselves to be slaughtered...