4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I don't think we should put too much into that quest, since it was just one big exorcist reference. We should just chalk up Ser Otto's abilities to "good intuition", and move on.

I know. I just thought it was interesting. But it brings me to my main point: maybe there is a way templars can learn to hone their senses further to divine the presence of a demon, somewhat similar to how Ser Otto did. I mean templars can sense ambient magic, can they not? It would be a logical step to assume that if they had enough training and willpower, they might be able to sense a demon.

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 novembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

If they can sense ambient magic, then they would also be able to sense a demon yes. But only a demon which had crossed over physically. Whena demon has physically crossed over, then it is literally magic made manifest. So in that case, if Templars can sense ambient magic, they should be able to sense a demon. However, that doesn't help in the case of Abominations, since with those, the Demon is still in the Fade. and is merely steering the mage like a puppet.

[TEWR]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Too convinent and too silly.
Like I said - why doesn't anyone use this method?
And dont' tell me "tempalrs consider it blood magic" since not all templars are alike. We've seen quite a few that are quite willing to flip the Divine a bird and use shady methods.
After all, many say plachyietries are blood magic, yet the tempalrs use them. But if all it takes to detect an abomination is a drop of  a mans blood and a good nose, then everyone would be using it.

Gregoir clearly states that there is no way to know and I've set to see DG ever deny that.
It seems to me that DA writers aren't communicating well enough.

I shouldn't be surprised that you choose to not believe it. Really, I actually expected you to go "Nope."

Maybe it hasn't been done because no one's discovered it. After all, how many blood mages have we seen that were actually NOT power hungry dip****s? Very few. Merrill, Jowan, The Warden, Hawke, and Avernus are the only ones that we've seen that are (or can possibly be, in PC cases) decent folks. And Adralla, but her research was focused on preventative measures more then identifying measures.

I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been discovered because most blood mages don't even care. That's not even accounting for how Demonology has been conflated to being synonymous with Blood Magic by the Chantry and research has been ground to a standstill (one of the factoring reasons why the Mages broke away, it seems). And progressive research has also not developed very far, medicinally because of fear of blood magic.

Granted, the tomes that provide that blurb do not specify the Chantry as being responsible, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I don't think we should put too much
into that quest, since it was just one big exorcist reference. We should
just chalk up Ser Otto's abilities to "good intuition", and move on.

By that logic, I should ignore Demonic Possession period because it references the Exorcist by having demons... possess people.

Unless a dev comes in and says "Ignore X" like in the case of the epilogues, I'm not ignoring anything. As for Ser Otto's abilities, that's because he was pretty much blinded. It's a known fact that when you lose one sense, the other senses heighten.

And have you never felt something unnatural in the air around you before? I have.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:17 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We should just ignore it because it was an Exorcist reference

By that logic, I should ignore Demonic Possession period because it references the Exorcist by having demons... possess people.

Unless a dev comes in and says "Ignore X" like in the case of the epilogues, I'm not ignoring anything.

EDIT: I see you edited. Good.

Anyway... What I said was that we shouldn't put TOO much into it. Ser Otto was able to sense something was wrong, due to intuition, not some innate Templar ability. We have met several Templars who had no idea they were talking to a mage. That is all the proof we need, to know that Templars can't sense mages. Now intuition is another matter. An experienced enough Templar, like Ser Otto, will through experience and intuition be able to tell, that something is wrong. But as pointed out, that is not an ability of Templars, but merely a trait you pick up along the way.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:17 .

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We should just ignore it because it was an Exorcist reference

By that logic, I should ignore Demonic Possession period because it references the Exorcist by having demons... possess people.

Unless a dev comes in and says "Ignore X" like in the case of the epilogues, I'm not ignoring anything.

Deliberately falsefying quotes? That'sa new low, and it is offensive to be quite frank.

I was going off of what I had quickly skimmed, as your quote was on the previous page and I wanted to get one post done. I then edited it in upon seeing the context of your quote and responded duly.

EDIT: I see YOU edited. Good.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:16 .

[TEWR]

We have met several Templars who had no idea they were talking to a mage.

I believe, however, that's a violation of the lore concerning Templars. Certainly, we know Templars can sense Veil disturbances -- remember how a Templar Warden can even say they sense the evil air in the Alienage too? Otto says "Yes, you're a Templar too. I can tell" or something along those lines -- and I'm fairly certain Templars could sense who's a mage and who isn't.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:23 .

[Hellion Rex]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

We have met several Templars who had no idea they were talking to a mage.

I believe, however, that's a violation of the lore concerning Templars. Certainly, we know Templars can sense Veil disturbances -- remember how a Templar Warden can even say they sense the evil air in the Alienage too? Otto says "Yes, you're a Templar too. I can tell -- and I'm fairly certain Templars can sense who's a mage and who isn't.

However, that is ambient magic in the environment. I am not sure a Templar could sense a mage unless they were actively casting. Further, if they can sense mages, why the need for phylacteries to track down mages then?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Quantity of evidence speaks against it though. We have met more Templars who can't sense mages, than Templars who can. Being able to sense ambient magic (like Veil tears), might still be in a Templars ability repetoire, but we can't really know for certain until expanded upon.

[TEWR]

eluvianix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

We have met several Templars who had no idea they were talking to a mage.

I believe, however, that's a violation of the lore concerning Templars. Certainly, we know Templars can sense Veil disturbances -- remember how a Templar Warden can even say they sense the evil air in the Alienage too? Otto says "Yes, you're a Templar too. I can tell -- and I'm fairly certain Templars can sense who's a mage and who isn't.

However, that is ambient magic in the environment. I am not sure a Templar could sense a mage unless they were actively casting. Further, if they can sense mages, why the need for phylacteries to track down mages then?

A mage could be halfway across the world eventually. Phylacteries would lead you to the general vicinity. I imagine even abilities like sensing the mages have limits as to how far they work.

EDIT: Plus, who's to say Circle Templars would be able to differentiate between the Mages? One Mage sense tingling might not tell him much on who it's tingling for, much like how Wardens can sense Darkspawn but only a select few (Kell ap Morgan) can skillfully point out a person/Darkspawn based on their taint.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 novembre 2013 - 10:28 .

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Or maybe Merill is full of it?

Hardly. In DAO, when you're exploring the alienage for Ser Otto you can detect that the blood outside the Veil-torn orphanage smells like "rotting eggs", a trait common in sulphur's smell -- which has historically been associated with Demons.

Meaning that if a person has trace of demons in their blood, it's because their blood smells sulphuric.

Too convinent and too silly.
Like I said - why doesn't anyone use this method?
And dont' tell me "tempalrs consider it blood magic" since not all templars are alike. We've seen quite a few that are quite willing to flip the Divine a bird and use shady methods.
After all, many say plachyietries are blood magic, yet the tempalrs use them. But if all it takes to detect an abomination is a drop of  a mans blood and a good nose, then everyone would be using it.

Gregoir clearly states that there is no way to know and I've set to see DG ever deny that.
It seems to me that DA writers aren't communicating well enough.

They don't know because it probably requires a blood mage to do it. Either that or they simply don't know about it; no one seems to recognize that the oddly-smelling blood in that quest means that demons are afoot, just that it's something strange that should be looked into.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
Tis rather sad. They sentence themselves to a life of mages and abominations, only to slowly descend slowly into madness from the addiction. If they do not fall to magic, then they lose out to the lyrium. I may have many issues with the Order, but it is rather noble what they must endure.

About time someone appreciates the sacrifice the Templars make everyday. Thank you.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Tis rather sad. They sentence themselves to a life of mages and abominations, only to slowly descend slowly into madness from the addiction. If they do not fall to magic, then they lose out to the lyrium. I may have many issues with the Order, but it is rather noble what they must endure.

About time someone appreciates the sacrifice the Templars make everyday. Thank you.

Endurance is not inherently noble. Honorable endurance is, but most templars are not honorable.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I shouldn't be surprised that you choose to not believe it. Really, I actually expected you to go "Nope."[/quoteg

Tell it to someone who cares.


[quote]
Maybe it hasn't been done because no one's discovered it. After all, how many blood mages have we seen that were actually NOT power hungry dip****s? Very few. Merrill, Jowan, The Warden, Hawke, and Avernus are the only ones that we've seen that are (or can possibly be, in PC cases) decent folks. And Adralla, but her research was focused on preventative measures more then identifying measures.[/quote]

So in thousands of years blood magic was around, no one figured out something so simple untill now?
What, does no one have a working nose?

Yeah, I find it unlikely.
And I'd find it stupid if it were true, since it utterly dimolishes any moral dillemas.

[quote]
I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been discovered because most blood mages don't even care. That's not even accounting for how Demonology has been conflated to being synonymous with Blood Magic by the Chantry and research has been ground to a standstill (one of the factoring reasons why the Mages broke away, it seems). And progressive research has also not developed very far, medicinally because of fear of blood magic. [/quote]

What? Research hasn't been grounded to a standstill.
There is a difference between restrictions and outright supression. Especially since we have books and tomes written on demons, done by Circle mages.



[quote]
And have you never felt something unnatural in the air around you before? I have.
[/quote]

No, that was just me farting.

[Xilizhra]

So in thousands of years blood magic was around, no one figured out something so simple untill now?
What, does no one have a working nose?

Apparently no one bothered to go around smelling the blood of people who were abominations in hiding, specifically, to figure out how that worked. Either that or you actually need a blood mage to do so; Merrill probably only had direct knowledge due to dialogue with Audacity. Either way, we have two references that show that demonic presence can be detected in blood and only dialogue stating that there's no way to detect them, which may very well be wrong.

And how does this remove "all moral dilemmas?"

Modifié par Xilizhra, 06 novembre 2013 - 12:53 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

They don't know because it probably requires a blood mage to do it. Either that or they simply don't know about it; no one seems to recognize that the oddly-smelling blood in that quest means that demons are afoot, just that it's something strange that should be looked into.

Given how many abomination templars cut down during a Harrowing (or in a lifetime) and thus having the sulfiric blood spill?
Yeah, I'm quite certain that one could add 2+2 together after smelling sulphur EVERY TIME you run into a demon.

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

They don't know because it probably requires a blood mage to do it. Either that or they simply don't know about it; no one seems to recognize that the oddly-smelling blood in that quest means that demons are afoot, just that it's something strange that should be looked into.

Given how many abomination templars cut down during a Harrowing (or in a lifetime) and thus having the sulfiric blood spill?
Yeah, I'm quite certain that one could add 2+2 together after smelling sulphur EVERY TIME you run into a demon.

They might chalk it up to something that only happens with the obviously mutated abominations, especially if they're just going around slaughtering everything that moves and all the smells get mixed together.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Dogs? Their sense of smell is superb?
Other animals?

Wouldn't they act like the dogs in Terminator?
Detecting something is foul?

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Dogs? Their sense of smell is superb?
Other animals?

Wouldn't they act like the dogs in Terminator?
Detecting something is foul?

Templars don't seem to have dogs, and in any case, it might be a smell that only occurs when the blood is actually spilled, hence mixing with air.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Endurance is not inherently noble. Honorable endurance is, but most templars are not honorable.

They do obey the first rule of chivalry which is to not stalk kindergartens.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Endurance is not inherently noble. Honorable endurance is, but most templars are not honorable.

They do obey the first rule of chivalry which is to not stalk kindergartens.

Hah. Part of their actual job description is kidnapping children.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Endurance is not inherently noble. Honorable endurance is, but most templars are not honorable.

They do obey the first rule of chivalry which is to not stalk kindergartens.

Hah. Part of their actual job description is kidnapping children.

But there's nothing wrong with it if you don't act on the urges, right?
Right?

Personally, I think the simple attracton is disgusting and sick but I know some people would disagree.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Endurance is not inherently noble. Honorable endurance is, but most templars are not honorable.

They do obey the first rule of chivalry which is to not stalk kindergartens.

Hah. Part of their actual job description is kidnapping children.

But there's nothing wrong with it if you don't act on the urges, right?
Right?

Personally, I think the simple attracton is disgusting and sick but I know some people would disagree.

Er, does whatever you're rambling about have anything to do with the topic at hand?

[MisterJB]

But of course. This is the Templar Support thread and I'm defending the templars from your accusation that they lack honor by saying that they, at least, are not pedophiles.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

But of course. This is the Templar Support thread and I'm defending the templars from your accusation that they lack honor by saying that they, at least, are not pedophiles.

Then you astound me with your mastery of non sequiturs; you should probably give lesssons.

In any case, there are certainly some good templars, which I've never denied. Evangeline, for instance.

[LOLandStuff]

Evangeline is a "good templar" only because she fell in love with Rhys and joined the mage rebellion.