4643 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

You know what I'm referring to.

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Evangeline is a "good templar" only because she fell in love with Rhys and joined the mage rebellion.

Keran as well.

[Lord Raijin]

LOLandStuff wrote...
So how does Uldred being a Libertarian excuse him from trying to put demons into people and trying to kill you? Oh wait, right...Templars and Chantry opression. Nor the Chantry or the Templars intervened between the mages. You can't even accept that there are bad mages and keep coming up with the dumbest excuses.
Besides, if you trust a man who let his king die because of paranoia then you're a moron and deserve what you get.

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security. I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry, but I notice that with each gameplay from both games: DAO and DA2 I see and hear things that I didn't even heard of from my previous games. Yes no matter how you view things the Chantries oppression is a large part of the problem at why mages fight back with any available skill that they know of. Call it excuses all you like but if you were in the same position as the mages I would be certain you would join the same bandwagon as the rest of the mages.

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...
So how does Uldred being a Libertarian excuse him from trying to put demons into people and trying to kill you? Oh wait, right...Templars and Chantry opression. Nor the Chantry or the Templars intervened between the mages. You can't even accept that there are bad mages and keep coming up with the dumbest excuses.
Besides, if you trust a man who let his king die because of paranoia then you're a moron and deserve what you get.

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security. I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry, but I notice that with each gameplay from both games: DAO and DA2 I see and hear things that I didn't even heard of from my previous games. Yes no matter how you view things the Chantries oppression is a large part of the problem at why mages fight back with any available skill that they know of. Call it excuses all you like but if you were in the same position as the mages I would be certain you would join the same bandwagon as the rest of the mages.

You keep using that word oppression, but then only cite fanatics as people who actually claim it? Do you have anyone that is not you or fanatic that acutally screams about oppression? And the appearance of said fanatics from laws does not excuse their actions. Have you noticed that such people spring up even in this country? Are they excused from the mass killings that they do, simply becasue of "oppression?" 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security.

Oh, Uldred is certanly horribly desperate...as a Senior Echanter in Ferelden Circle.
Oh, I can feel his opression and anguish! He clearly had to learn blood magic nad act NOW!

I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry,

And I'm Abraham Lincoln.

[Sainna]

Uh, mages are pretty oppressed to be honest. It's not something that DA games try to hide if anything they show it gladly and then balance it out with also showing how dangerous a mage can be without someone looking over her or him.

if I misunderstood something then sorry. Pretty tired and posting at work!

Edit: Also say what you want but people like their freedom. Taking it away from them forces them to do bad things.
However full-out-freedom and yada yada does not work when it comes to mages. At least not at the beginning   I still stand that mages need to edjucated in what they are and so forth no matter if they want it or not but once they are no longer complete nabs they get -proper- freedoms. Perhaps even settle down and have a family and whatnot but of course Templars ands such would still guard the circles/schools and check up on the mages to make sure they are still behaving.

Would that be perfect mage freedom? Nop! They would still be always somewhat watched but it is better then what they have now.
Also I imagine it would motivate mages to study harder and skip out on most darker magics. Like irl! Get that stupid school over with and the super nerds cjust can continue to study and be first enchanters or something else dull! :innocent:

Modifié par Sainna, 06 novembre 2013 - 02:46 .

[LOLandStuff]

I always play a mage but I'd rather live in a hole in the ground that join in your bandwagon. Guess I wasn't paranoid enough to feel oppressed.
I even romanced poor Anders who immediately asked to move in after one night, which was rather creepy. And know what I learned? I played my Hawke as a dumb broad who got manipulated. Should've seen it coming that first night.

[Hellion Rex]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Evangeline is a "good templar" only because she fell in love with Rhys and joined the mage rebellion.

Hardly. I liked her because she was smart and I actually enjoyed her character in the novel.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Evangeline is a "good templar" only because she fell in love with Rhys and joined the mage rebellion.

Keran as well.

Ser Otto as well. And Ser Thrask.

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security.

Oh, Uldred is certanly horribly desperate...as a Senior Echanter in Ferelden Circle.
Oh, I can feel his opression and anguish! He clearly had to learn blood magic nad act NOW!

I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry,

And I'm Abraham Lincoln.

Edit: Replied to the wrong person.

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 novembre 2013 - 03:22 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...
So how does Uldred being a Libertarian excuse him from trying to put demons into people and trying to kill you? Oh wait, right...Templars and Chantry opression. Nor the Chantry or the Templars intervened between the mages. You can't even accept that there are bad mages and keep coming up with the dumbest excuses.
Besides, if you trust a man who let his king die because of paranoia then you're a moron and deserve what you get.

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security. I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry, but I notice that with each gameplay from both games: DAO and DA2 I see and hear things that I didn't even heard of from my previous games. Yes no matter how you view things the Chantries oppression is a large part of the problem at why mages fight back with any available skill that they know of. Call it excuses all you like but if you were in the same position as the mages I would be certain you would join the same bandwagon as the rest of the mages.

Uldred was certainly not desperate. He was a cold calculating figure trying to get the Circle to support Loghain's actions. When he was caught in a web of lies, he tried to summon a Pride demon and was instead possessed. He was hardly a tragic figure.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Evangeline sucks lambert at least is tough and badass but he is ugly ******.

[MisterJB]

Honestly, I can accept that the Circle plays a role in creating blood mages and Abominations. No, I don't think mages are being opressed but people will be unhappy about anything so, yes, there will be mages who overglorify life on the rest of Thedas (hint:mages actually live better than most of Thedas) and use violence because of their shortsigthedness.

But it's completely bullsh*t to claim that without Circles or Templars things would be much better. People are selfish, people are greedy, people abuse power and mages have a lot of it. The most obvious example of that is Tevinter but I can also point to Connor and Quention who allowed misfortunes to turn them into monsters.

Bottom line; if my choice is between having closed doors and steels bars preventing mages from commiting immoral actions or trusting on each and every mage's consciousness to prevent each and every mage from commiting said actions, I'll pick the closed doors and steels bars each and every time.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 novembre 2013 - 03:25 .

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Evangeline sucks lambert at least is tough and badass but he is ugly ******.

Evangeline was awesome.
I hardly liked Lambert, although I could understand a little of his motivations. However it doesn't stop him from being a cold hearted ***. But I will agree that he is definitely not an attractive character.

[dragonflight288]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Evangeline is a "good templar" only because she fell in love with Rhys and joined the mage rebellion.

Not true. Even before she really liked Rhys, they were traveling through a town and the mages Adrian, Rhys and Wynne were getting harassed in the inn, she got up and stood between the townspeople and the mages under her charge and declared it was her duty to protect mages from the world as much as it was to protect the world from mages.

She was the very definition of a good templar before she fell in love with Rhys. Heck, even before she realized what her feelings were, she decided to ignore her orders to murder those traveling with her who now had evidence that Tranquility was now curable, as she felt murder to hide evidence was wrong.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Honestly, I can accept that the Circle plays a role in creating blood mages and Abominations. No, I don't think mages are being opressed but people will be unhappy about anything so, yes, there will be mages who overglorify life on the rest of Thedas (hint:mages actually live better than most of Thedas) and use violence because of their shortsigthedness.

But it's completely bullsh*t to claim that without Circles or Templars things would be much better. People are selfish, people are greedy, people abuse power and mages have a lot of it. The most obvious example of that is Tevinter but I can also point to Connor and Quention who allowed misfortunes to turn them into monsters.

Bottom line; if my choice is between having closed doors and steels bars preventing mages from commiting immoral actions or trusting on each and every mage's consciousness to prevent each and every mage from commiting said actions, I'll pick the closed doors and steels bars each and every time.

A gilded cage is still a cage, no?
I do agree however that the Circles and Templar institutions play a vital role in keeping order. The issue is how they are run.

[dragonflight288]

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...
So how does Uldred being a Libertarian excuse him from trying to put demons into people and trying to kill you? Oh wait, right...Templars and Chantry opression. Nor the Chantry or the Templars intervened between the mages. You can't even accept that there are bad mages and keep coming up with the dumbest excuses.
Besides, if you trust a man who let his king die because of paranoia then you're a moron and deserve what you get.

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security. I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry, but I notice that with each gameplay from both games: DAO and DA2 I see and hear things that I didn't even heard of from my previous games. Yes no matter how you view things the Chantries oppression is a large part of the problem at why mages fight back with any available skill that they know of. Call it excuses all you like but if you were in the same position as the mages I would be certain you would join the same bandwagon as the rest of the mages.

You keep using that word oppression, but then only cite fanatics as people who actually claim it? Do you have anyone that is not you or fanatic that acutally screams about oppression? And the appearance of said fanatics from laws does not excuse their actions. Have you noticed that such people spring up even in this country? Are they excused from the mass killings that they do, simply becasue of "oppression?" 

Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper, they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians, they are denied the right to leave or visit families, their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn, and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

....I call that oppression. Alongside mental and emotional abuse.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Evangeline sucks lambert at least is tough and badass but he is ugly ******.

Evangeline was awesome.
I hardly liked Lambert, although I could understand a little of his motivations. However it doesn't stop him from being a cold hearted ***. But I will agree that he is definitely not an attractive character.

Lambert was di*** but he was also character who was only winner in the end (except cole part but i hope he isn't dead that would be waste) lambert will be worthy opponent for my Inquisitor Evangeline get trashed by him like a bi***.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Evangeline sucks lambert at least is tough and badass but he is ugly ******.

Evangeline was awesome.
I hardly liked Lambert, although I could understand a little of his motivations. However it doesn't stop him from being a cold hearted ***. But I will agree that he is definitely not an attractive character.

Lambert was di*** but he was also character who was only winner in the end (except cole part but i hope he isn't dead that would be waste) lambert will be worthy opponent for my Inquisitor Evangeline get trashed by him like a bi***.

I disagree, only on the part that Evangeline is currently possessed by one of the strongest spirits we have encountered yet in the game. She is a complete wild card.

[LOLandStuff]

If she really wanted to help, she should've remained neutral and searched for a solution instead of joining a mage rebellion. That's why I see her as a bad example of a good templar.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...
So how does Uldred being a Libertarian excuse him from trying to put demons into people and trying to kill you? Oh wait, right...Templars and Chantry opression. Nor the Chantry or the Templars intervened between the mages. You can't even accept that there are bad mages and keep coming up with the dumbest excuses.
Besides, if you trust a man who let his king die because of paranoia then you're a moron and deserve what you get.

People do things that are completely abnormal when it comes to desperation, even entrusting of someone that gives them false hope and security. I've tried so hard to be pro-Templar and pro-chantry, but I notice that with each gameplay from both games: DAO and DA2 I see and hear things that I didn't even heard of from my previous games. Yes no matter how you view things the Chantries oppression is a large part of the problem at why mages fight back with any available skill that they know of. Call it excuses all you like but if you were in the same position as the mages I would be certain you would join the same bandwagon as the rest of the mages.

You keep using that word oppression, but then only cite fanatics as people who actually claim it? Do you have anyone that is not you or fanatic that acutally screams about oppression? And the appearance of said fanatics from laws does not excuse their actions. Have you noticed that such people spring up even in this country? Are they excused from the mass killings that they do, simply becasue of "oppression?" 

Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper, they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians, they are denied the right to leave or visit families, their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn, and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

....I call that oppression. Alongside mental and emotional abuse.

We have only really been exposed to 3 out of 15 Circles in the Andrastian Chantry (4 if you include the Starkhaven lot), but I am hesitant to call this behavior (the bolded) common. While it certainly has happened in the Circles we have seen, all other information that we have been given is secondhand, by word of mouth. I do not think we have enough info to really say that it is commonplace in each of the Circles, not to discount what we have seen though.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper,

 The fact that, even in Kirkwall, Karras felt the need to hide his nocturnal visits to Alain suggests he feared punishment even if kirkwall was the strictest Circle in Thedas.

they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians, they are denied the right to leave or visit families

Kirkwall only. In Orlais and Ferelden, we have several first hand accounts of mages traveling outside of the Circle.
And, even in Kirkwall, Bethany is allowed to leave the Circle to attend a party.

their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn,

 We take the kids of parents who can't watch over them safely in today's world.

and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

They are weapons but I'd consider providing them with rights, education and better living conditions than most of Thedas as the Chantry treating them like people.

[LOLandStuff]

dragonflight288 wrote...


Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper, they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians, they are denied the right to leave or visit families, their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn, and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

....I call that oppression. Alongside mental and emotional abuse.

So does that mean the types of Uldred, Anders and who else there is get a free pass for their actions?

[Hellion Rex]

LOLandStuff wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...


Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper, they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians, they are denied the right to leave or visit families, their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn, and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

....I call that oppression. Alongside mental and emotional abuse.

So does that mean the types of Uldred, Anders and who else there is get a free pass for their actions?

No, certainly not. But it hardly makes this behavior acceptable either.

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 novembre 2013 - 03:37 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Evangeline sucks lambert at least is tough and badass but he is ugly ******.

Evangeline was awesome.
I hardly liked Lambert, although I could understand a little of his motivations. However it doesn't stop him from being a cold hearted ***. But I will agree that he is definitely not an attractive character.

Lambert was di*** but he was also character who was only winner in the end (except cole part but i hope he isn't dead that would be waste) lambert will be worthy opponent for my Inquisitor Evangeline get trashed by him like a bi***.

I disagree, only on the part that Evangeline is currently possessed by one of the strongest spirits we have encountered yet in the game. She is a complete wild card.

We don't know whether it be affect her physically and then i doubt that she will able to control that if even wynne or anders couldn't handle that. Nope she isn't wild card she supports one side if she didn't crap about sides and play both like for example jack sparrow who was on his own side.