4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

LOLandStuff wrote...

I always play a mage but I'd rather live in a hole in the ground that join in your bandwagon. Guess I wasn't paranoid enough to feel oppressed.
I even romanced poor Anders who immediately asked to move in after one night, which was rather creepy. And know what I learned? I played my Hawke as a dumb broad who got manipulated. Should've seen it coming that first night.

lol!! I feel so bad for your Hawke. I knew Anders was running a con the moment he began dropping his "Templars are coming by my place oh what am I going to do? I have no where safe to go" shtick. I detoured right to Fenris.

[Hazegurl]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Hardly. She should not hang for doing the right thing and not killing the mages when they discovered a way out of Tranquility.

Not killing Wynne&Co then and there was a reprehensible decision but it could be forgiven. Killing her own comrades in an attempt to free the leaders of a faction willing to start a war in order to achieve their goals thus ensuring the war would happen is a betrayal of every vow she ever took as well as of her own people and she should hang for it.
Would you tell the families of those who will die in this war that Evangeline made the right decision?

Oh give the girl a break. Rhys probably had a big.... ...sense of humor.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I don't see what the good of the many benefit from lamberts actions in sparking more rebelleous thoughts, more sympathy for the libertarians, more proof that the system doesn't work and is actively against them, and basically more bad examples of templars over-stepping their bounds in an already tense system. How many blood mages would have come about thanks to lamberts stunt across thedas, as faternities find out he just killed every one of their leaders and fear what will happen to them? How many abominations will be made as people freak out and, in their own paranoia, end up making mistakes the same way lambert and uldred did, that cost hundreds their lives.

Lambert basically created his own delayed version of hellish armageddon when he stormed the meeting. It was going to become a war, and one the templars had no control or advantage over. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame lambert and his direct hand in basically ****ing over thedas no matter what he did next.

Mages having rebellious thougths inside the Circles when there are Templars around them to put them down if they turn those thougths into acts of violence is preferable to open war on the outside especially since a great number of mages began this war in an advantageous position ; that is to say, one where there weren't templars around to curb their numbers.

I concur that Lambert made a mistake when he stormed the meeting which doesn't mean I don't consider Evangeline's actions to be far worse.

Protecting the innocent from those trying to kill them, standing on principle and doing the right thing is worse than treason against the Chantry, slaughtering innocents, and a military coup?

That argument would make sense if the mages were innocent. However the mages were openly discussing rebellion, so any claim to innocence was long gone.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 06 novembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I don't see what the good of the many benefit from lamberts actions in sparking more rebelleous thoughts, more sympathy for the libertarians, more proof that the system doesn't work and is actively against them, and basically more bad examples of templars over-stepping their bounds in an already tense system. How many blood mages would have come about thanks to lamberts stunt across thedas, as faternities find out he just killed every one of their leaders and fear what will happen to them? How many abominations will be made as people freak out and, in their own paranoia, end up making mistakes the same way lambert and uldred did, that cost hundreds their lives.

Lambert basically created his own delayed version of hellish armageddon when he stormed the meeting. It was going to become a war, and one the templars had no control or advantage over. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame lambert and his direct hand in basically ****ing over thedas no matter what he did next.

Mages having rebellious thougths inside the Circles when there are Templars around them to put them down if they turn those thougths into acts of violence is preferable to open war on the outside especially since a great number of mages began this war in an advantageous position ; that is to say, one where there weren't templars around to curb their numbers.

I concur that Lambert made a mistake when he stormed the meeting which doesn't mean I don't consider Evangeline's actions to be far worse.

Protecting the innocent from those trying to kill them, standing on principle and doing the right thing is worse than treason against the Chantry, slaughtering innocents, and a military coup?

That argument would make sense if the mages were innocent. However the mages were openly discussing rebellion, so any claim to innocence was long gone.

Lambert started the whole mess in White Spire however.

[Hellion Rex]

Hazegurl wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Hardly. She should not hang for doing the right thing and not killing the mages when they discovered a way out of Tranquility.

Not killing Wynne&Co then and there was a reprehensible decision but it could be forgiven. Killing her own comrades in an attempt to free the leaders of a faction willing to start a war in order to achieve their goals thus ensuring the war would happen is a betrayal of every vow she ever took as well as of her own people and she should hang for it.
Would you tell the families of those who will die in this war that Evangeline made the right decision?

Oh give the girl a break. Rhys probably had a big.... ...sense of humor.

God I hope we see him in DAI.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Arguably Fiona did that, when she hijacked the meeting, and forced it to be about rebellion instead of Circle life improvements.
Bottom line: There were many factors to that incident. Trying to pin it all on the Templars is just a sign of crippling bias, with which no rational discussion can be had.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Protecting the innocent from those trying to kill them, standing on principle and doing the right thing is worse than treason against the Chantry, slaughtering innocents, and a military coup?

Before I answer anything else, I'll ask you to tell me just what exactly is "the right thing" and who gets to determine it.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Arguably Fiona did that, when she hijacked the meeting, and forced it to be about rebellion instead of Circle life improvements.
Bottom line: There were many factors to that incident. Trying to pin it all on the Templars is just a sign of crippling bias, with which no rational discussion can be had.

I am hardly saying Lambert was entirely responsible. Both he and Fiona played a major role. I am simply saying he struck the first blow. If he had not, the mages probably would have. In the White Spire, it was only a matter of time before all hell broke loose.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Lambert X Fiona OTP 4 Lif.

[Hellion Rex]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Lambert X Fiona OTP 4 Lif.

That would be kind of hot. I was thinking more Lambert x Rhys, but that's just me.
However, anything is better than Meredith x Orsino

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Lambert / Black Divine lemon fic best numbah 1 TOTP like or like blight-sickness.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 06 novembre 2013 - 06:30 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Arguably Fiona did that, when she hijacked the meeting, and forced it to be about rebellion instead of Circle life improvements.
Bottom line: There were many factors to that incident. Trying to pin it all on the Templars is just a sign of crippling bias, with which no rational discussion can be had.

I am hardly saying Lambert was entirely responsible. Both he and Fiona played a major role. I am simply saying he struck the first blow. If he had not, the mages probably would have. In the White Spire, it was only a matter of time before all hell broke loose.

So we can both agree that if the Templars had not struck first, then the amges would have? Can we then also agree, that trying to play the blame game in about this incident is ultiamtely pointless? Templars could ahve been more tactful, and the amges could have accepted the olive branch they were handed. Many things could have gone better than they did.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Arguably Fiona did that, when she hijacked the meeting, and forced it to be about rebellion instead of Circle life improvements.
Bottom line: There were many factors to that incident. Trying to pin it all on the Templars is just a sign of crippling bias, with which no rational discussion can be had.

I am hardly saying Lambert was entirely responsible. Both he and Fiona played a major role. I am simply saying he struck the first blow. If he had not, the mages probably would have. In the White Spire, it was only a matter of time before all hell broke loose.

So we can both agree that if the Templars had not struck first, then the amges would have? Can we then also agree, that trying to play the blame game in about this incident is ultiamtely pointless? Templars could ahve been more tactful, and the amges could have accepted the olive branch they were handed. Many things could have gone better than they did.

That we can most certainly agree on. But unfortunately events happened as they did, and we are left one big nasty mess. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Indeed. Hardliners have a tendency of messing it up for the moderates.

[MisterJB]

I just wish people would stop holding up Evangeline as if she is some sort of ideal all Templars should strive towards.
She is a terrible Templar.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper,

Welcome to the middle ages. It can happen to anyone, mage or not. They are not an excpetion.
Mind you, raping a mage is NOT legal and it's suppsoed to be punished, but in a middle-age society, you're gonna be hard pressed to find evidence and the victim are unlikely to speak up.

they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians,

No, they can't. That is called a templar oversteping his boundries.

they are denied the right to leave or visit families, their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn, and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

....I call that oppression. Alongside mental and emotional abuse.

They can leave the tower, but not permanantely (even tough there are exceptions).
Taking their childern is harsh, but without numbers on how it affect the safely and lives of child aand mother, I cannot say it's wrong.
And mages are living weapons, so you cannot treat them the same.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

MisterJB wrote...

I just wish people would stop holding up Evangeline as if she is some sort of ideal all Templars should strive towards.
She is a terrible Templar.

But she is wonderful shipping material.

EvangelineXWhite_Divine.exe slashfic lemon OtOTP.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 06 novembre 2013 - 06:48 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Mages can be raped without any consequences to the raper,

Welcome to the middle ages. It can happen to anyone, mage or not. They are not an excpetion.
Mind you, raping a mage is NOT legal and it's suppsoed to be punished, but in a middle-age society, you're gonna be hard pressed to find evidence and the victim are unlikely to speak up.

they can be beaten for simply talking to civilians,

No, they can't. That is called a templar oversteping his boundries.

they are denied the right to leave or visit families, their children are taken from their arms almost immediately after the birth of said childrn, and are called weapons and cannot be treated as people.

....I call that oppression. Alongside mental and emotional abuse.

They can leave the tower, but not permanantely (even tough there are exceptions).
Taking their childern is harsh, but without numbers on how it affect the safely and lives of child aand mother, I cannot say it's wrong.
And mages are living weapons, so you cannot treat them the same.

Honestly everything could have just been answered with your first response, because that's the way of the world. Give a guard a few soveriengs and he'll look the other way, everyone will, templar, enchanter, and seekers to probably.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
Thousands have already died, and thousands more will die under the templars' reign unless this ends now... in addition to the fact that it was the templars who declared war and not the mages in the first place.

And MILLIONS have died before the temaplrs and will die wihout the templar reign.

ianvillain wrote...

You seem to never value the vow of Templars to protect mages,
something Lambert forgot. The Divine was willing to grant the Mages a
chance to discuss change, but Lambert fearing loosing his absolute power
over mages broke his vows to protect mages (if he even followed them in
the first place).

And instead they were discussing rebellion.
Lambert was right to storm in and stop the farce. He was right to try to kill Cole - the demon or whatever he is.
He never planned to kill any of the mages in the conclave.
Evangeline was an idiot for shielding him.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 06 novembre 2013 - 06:57 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
Honestly everything could have just been answered with your first response, because that's the way of the world. Give a guard a few soveriengs and he'll look the other way, everyone will, templar, enchanter, and seekers to probably.

Yes, bad people can sometimes get away with doing bad things, because it's a imperfect world.
Mages answer? BURN THE WORLD!

[Lord Raijin]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ultimately taking the Lyrium is a choice the Templar makes for himself.

I wouldn't nessassary say that taking Lyrium is a choice that a Templar chooses for himself. It is a requirement that every templar must consumed lyrium to built up their anti-magic ability to fight against the mages. David Gaider even confirmed this.

They're obligated to take lyrium.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Come on guy let's all be honest:

Templars are all sexy and awesome.

Mages are ugly and pathetic.

Debate over.

Interview with a mage:

Mage: "I am ugly and pathetic and the templars are right about us."

====

See guys? Even they agree.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 06 novembre 2013 - 07:13 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
Honestly everything could have just been answered with your first response, because that's the way of the world. Give a guard a few soveriengs and he'll look the other way, everyone will, templar, enchanter, and seekers to probably.

Yes, bad people can sometimes get away with doing bad things, because it's a imperfect world.
Mages answer? BURN THE WORLD!

That is total crap Lotion. You do your argument no credit in that one ridiculous generalized assertion.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lord Raijin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ultimately taking the Lyrium is a choice the Templar makes for himself.

I wouldn't nessassary say that taking Lyrium is a choice that a Templar chooses for himself. It is a requirement that every templar must consumed lyrium to built up their anti-magic ability to fight against the mages. David Gaider even confirmed this.

They're obligated to take lyrium.

If they want to be Templars, they must be willing to take the Lyrium. If they are unwilling totake Lyrium then tehy can't be Templars. Ultimately it is still their own choice.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ultimately taking the Lyrium is a choice the Templar makes for himself.

I wouldn't nessassary say that taking Lyrium is a choice that a Templar chooses for himself. It is a requirement that every templar must consumed lyrium to built up their anti-magic ability to fight against the mages. David Gaider even confirmed this.

They're obligated to take lyrium.

If they want to be Templars, they must be willing to take the Lyrium. If they are unwilling totake Lyrium then tehy can't be Templars. Ultimately it is still their own choice.

And at the same type taking lyrium makes you unsuitable as a tamplar, If your caught in the police force with any form of dope you will be booted from the force because your corruptable. From what we have seen in DA2 and DAQ plenty of templars are corrupt in order to get their lyrium fix.