4643 réponses à ce sujet

[The Flying Grey Warden]

We need titans on thedas to shake things up a lot. Eat a few people, look ugly, and get taken down by teens using lyrium powered maneuver gear.

[Lord Raijin]

Mr.House wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

People who blow up buildings with innocent people should never considered martyrs or saints, the very thought is just disgusting.

Oh my Maker! Not this innocent people discussion again. MAKER NO!

Oh I forgot, blood mages are more important then people who have nothing to do with the conflict, my bad.

and here I thought blood mages was evil.

[Medhia Nox]

@Mr. House: Mages that don't agree with the mage insurgency all have Stockholm Syndrome.. where have you been?

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret of the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

That comparison, plus Anders' husbando factor. So the odds of him having a decent redemption/vindication scene if he lived and was friended seem quite high, really.

[ScarMK]

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

Don't be silly.  Loghain sold those elves into slavery.  Clearly Anders is better than him.

[Xilizhra]

ScarMK wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

Don't be silly.  Loghain sold those elves into slavery.  Clearly Anders is better than him.

Well, that's certainly a factor.

[Medhia Nox]

@ScarMK: They're just elves... what ELSE do you do with elves?

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret of the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

That comparison, plus Anders' husbando factor. So the odds of him having a decent redemption/vindication scene if he lived and was friended seem quite high, really.

Anders shows no regrets of the innocents that have died, he cares nothing of the mages that will die thanks to him. His response in the scene that follows is enough to kill him and rid the danger he posses to any man, woman and child, no matter if they are mage or not.

[ScarMK]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@ScarMK: They're just elves... what ELSE do you do with elves?

I hear they're great for people with foot fetishes.

[Medhia Nox]

@ScarMK: I would never wear elf skin boots...

... is it soft?

Nevermind, my feet don't like the feeling of poverty.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 07 novembre 2013 - 05:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret of the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

That comparison, plus Anders' husbando factor. So the odds of him having a decent redemption/vindication scene if he lived and was friended seem quite high, really.

Anders shows no regrets of the innocents that have died, he cares nothing of the mages that will die thanks to him. His response in the scene that follows is enough to kill him and rid the danger he posses to any man, woman and child, no matter if they are mage or not.

Your opinion has been noted. All I speak of is the likelihood of his having a relatively triumphant scene in DAI. He's no Thane or Jacob; he was neither telegraphed to be doomed from the start nor highly unpopular (many hate him, but many love him).

[Lord Raijin]

Anders is better than anyone else because hes a cat lover... and cat lovers are always OK in my book

Animal lovers for life

Down with the Grey wardens for forcing him to get rid of his Ser pounce a lot.

[Medhia Nox]

@Mr. House: Ander's final speech is actually textbook megalomania.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Mr. House: Ander's final speech is actually textbook megalomania.

It's not like he was wrong in any of its particulars. His action, perhaps, but his speech was pretty spot on.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

Yeah. Cailan wasn't all that bright, now that I think about it.

[Lord Raijin]

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

.....Did you just compare Loghain to Anders? A person who made a tactical retreat while also trying to stop Cailan from being on the front lines who outright does regret of the mistakes he has made to a terrorist who cares nothing about the people he is fighting for, if he did he would know not every mage feels the way he does?

That comparison, plus Anders' husbando factor. So the odds of him having a decent redemption/vindication scene if he lived and was friended seem quite high, really.

Anders shows no regrets of the innocents that have died, he cares nothing of the mages that will die thanks to him. His response in the scene that follows is enough to kill him and rid the danger he posses to any man, woman and child, no matter if they are mage or not.

But he had a free medical clinic going on in the lowest part of Lowtown into Darktown providing free health care for the poor and the sick. Anders couldn't be that cold hearted. At least he had loyal non-mages willing to die to protect him.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm starting to have a hard time figuring out which parts of this thread are sarcastic and which are serious now.

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to say Anders doesn't care about the people he's fighting for, he just doesn't care about what any of them want. He cares about what he wants for them, based on his own life.

I' m certainly no fan of Loghain but I doubt Anders is going to get a similar chance for atonement like the Redeemer ending. I let Anders go once, in part for that very reason, but I'd be very surprised if he did anything substantial in DAI if he returns. I wouldn't expect him to be anything except a cameo that fights templars or shelters some fleeing mages or something.

I think to him, his blowing up the Chantry to start the Mage Rebellion was his "redemption". In his mind, he's already vindicated by achieving his objective of mages fighting for independence. I'm pretty certain he doesn't think he was in the wrong, so I don't think he'd try to find a different path.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 novembre 2013 - 05:55 .

[Medhia Nox]

Cailan was an idealist - he was a prop used to inform the audience that: "Thinking in typical fantasy terms for THIS world is horribad."

Cailan would have waited for Gandalf at the dawn of the third day without any preparation beforehand... and Bioware said: "DIE idealist dreamer."

He was just the "edgy dark" sign post at the beginning of DA:O in case you missed it in your Origin.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 07 novembre 2013 - 05:56 .

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Cailan was an idealist - he was a prop used to inform the audience that: "Thinking in typical fantasy terms for THIS world is horribad."

Cailan would have waiting for Gandalf at the dawn of the first day without any preparation beforehand... and Bioware said: "DIE idealist dreamer."

He was just the "edgy dark" sign post at the beginning of DA:O in case you missed it in your Origin.

Thankfully, you can still win everything while playing an idealist dreamer.

[ScarMK]

Xilizhra wrote...
Thankfully, you can still win everything while playing an idealist dreamer.

Only because you're the uber PC demigod who can take those same ogre punches like it's nothing.

@Media Nox

Yes, they're very soft and you don't even feel the poverty!  It's almost like royalty as you're literally walking on the filthy knife ears.

Modifié par ScarMK, 07 novembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Yes, well - best not to bite the hands of the whiney self-entitled gamers that feed you.

@Lord Raijin: That clinic was a terrorist cell he used to hide his nefarious actions. Notice those Fereldens waiting to beat anyone up to protect Anders? Yeah... that clinic served a purpose. Hide Anders until he could commit to his act of terrorism.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 07 novembre 2013 - 05:58 .

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra: Yes, well - best not to bite the hands of the whiney self-entitled gamers that feed you.

Your opinion is depressing, but said gamers are why Anders will come off well in DAI if he's alive, at least he's friended.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think there's really any particular message about idealism attached to Calian's death. It was pretty telegraphed as soon as we met him. He was overconfident and hepful and the game was still just beggining. I feel like it would have been an inversion of tropes if he had somehow survived the defeat at Ostagar.

I'm also pretty sure Anders terrorism wasn't hatched until much later. I believe his clinic was earnestly altruistic.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 novembre 2013 - 06:03 .

[Fredward]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm starting to have a hard time figuring out which parts of this thread are sarcastic and which are serious now.

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to say Anders doesn't care about the people he's fighting for, he just doesn't care about what any of them want. He cares about what he wants for them, based on his own life.

I' m certainly no fan of Loghain but I doubt Anders is going to get a similar chance for atonement like the Redeemer ending. I let Anders go once, in part for that very reason, but I'd be very surprised if he did anything substantial in DAI if he returns. I wouldn't expect him to be anything except a cameo that fights templars or shelters some fleeing mages or something.

I think to him, his blowing up the Chantry to start the Mage Rebellion was his "redemption". In his mind, he's already vindicated by achieving his objective of mages fighting for independence. I'm pretty certain he doesn't think he was in the wrong, so I don't think he'd try to find a different path.

I'm pretty sure Anders felt plenty bad about blowing up the Chantry and some potentially innocent people with it. He knew it was wrong. But he did it anyway. Because he considered sacrificing his ideals and values (and thus himself because Justice is eventually going to ask for Justice for all the innocents he's killed) to be worth it to spark a war that could potentially free the mages. -shrug- It's a classic "for the greater good" decision. I mean just look at him expecting Hawke to kill him afterwards and how he didn't want to drag him/her into it with him, he didn't want to make them guilty of all the bloodshed he was going to pile on himself. Kinda selfish but whaddaya gonna do.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I did get the sense that Anders felt guilty about what he did, but he was also defiantly unapologetic about saying it was the right thing to do because of what it did for his cause. There is still the distinct possibility Anders' guilt may eventually cause him to feel he did the wrong thing and try to do something about it or otherwise be changed by remorse, particularly if the war becomes more and more costly but with Justice still within hin I think it's unlikley.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 novembre 2013 - 06:07 .