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[wolfhowwl]

Lord Raijin wrote...

So I've started reading Asunder.... the book that everyone has been discussing here and what do I come across on the very first chapter?!?! Templars abusing the mages! The prisons (The pit) is rat infected and completely dark. When mages get toss in the cell almost right away the rats starts munching on their flesh with their razor sharp teeth, and theirs no way for the mage to escape the torture that they're experiencing.

This is a class act of oppression against mages.

That's nice.

Back on topic, here is a member of the Templar Order fighting a rage demon in the Circle.


As for what a rage demon is doing in our world; we can thank a mage (of course) for that particular blunder.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 07 novembre 2013 - 07:34 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...

What are the mages suppose to do? Let the templars abuse them or fight back? Elthina had no intentions to fixing the problems that was rising up.

Actually, Eltina was starting to shift towards the mages more and more.
Change is sometimes slow.

I've been trying to lecture the pro-templars here that they have
emotional feelings, and I was actually mocked for saying it. I provided a
screenshot of Knight-Captain Cullen  spilling the beans out by saying
that templars don't view mages as "People" and that they cannot be your
friend and trusted. This kind of statement is a clearly distributing,
especially when it comes out of a high ranked templars mouth who
obviously suffers from PTSD due to past experiece. To me that is just
disguesting, especailly when a Knight-commander blames mages for
everything that happens due to her past family affair.

Nah. You're misconstructing.

Templars have to mantain an emotional distance with mages (hence why they shouldn't technicly be friends) in order to do their job properly. You say they cannot be anti-mage? Well, they cannot be pro-mage either.

And he didn't say tempalrs don't view mages as people, he said they cannot be treated exactly the same as normal people, since they are essentially living weapons.

Templars ant-mage ability is not a genuine skill as it's required to
inject Lyrium to obtain the ability thats why their powers is false.
It's a performance enhancing drug is what it is, and in all major
sporting events it's highly illegal because it's considered cheating.
People can ruin their careers by cheating.

This isn't a sport and no one in TheDas considers it cheating.
You use what tools are EFFECTIVE. To do anything else is sheer stupidity.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
More defending the process, then the man.

Let's say a hypothetical where instead of someone telling on d'simm, d'simm called the templars on someone innocent who, let's just say, threatened to expose him as a con.

The templars would take d'simms word that he was telling the truth, go to the other guy, and kill them. No questions asked. No trail, no due process.

That is the same exact thing, and just because d'simm happened to be guilty, doesn't mean the next person who gets reported to that templar is guilty. [/quoteg

Adn you don't know what happened so stop projecting.
How do you know D'Simms didn't attack the templars?
How do you know exactly what happened? Maybe he made a sudden movement and the templars panicked?

This is the middle ages.
There is no handy radio to call your superiors to ask for instructions. There is no CSI and DNA analysis.
So the only way it works is by having execuative decision be placed in teh hands of field commanders. And they might make mistakes. Tehy might be misinformed. But there's no other way to do it.

Furthermore, a dead man is a dead man, so I doubt the tempalrs could have checked the cropse and go "Dang. We dun goofed - this guy wasn't a mage!"

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The man landed with 300-500 men and could've easily taken over Kirkwall if he wanted, and then used the people of Kirkwall after converting to search for the relic. He didn't, because for the time being his duty wasn't to convert the people.

No. 500 men is not even close to enough to take over a city the size of Kirkwall.

The qunari had the element of surprise and were fighting the city guard - with is basicly police, not proper military.
As soon as the mages and templars and proper military forces joined in the fight, the Qunari were curbstomped.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...

All Anders want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools. Whats wrong with that?

Nothing.
As long as he accepts that all I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal and the right to put my sword trough fools.
Oh, I consider Anders a fool b.t.w. .. sooo... yeah.. *STAB*

[TEWR]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The man landed with 300-500 men and could've easily taken over Kirkwall if he wanted, and then used the people of Kirkwall after converting to search for the relic. He didn't, because for the time being his duty wasn't to convert the people.

No. 500 men is not even close to enough to take over a city the size of Kirkwall.

The qunari had the element of surprise and were fighting the city guard - with is basicly police, not proper military.
As soon as the mages and templars and proper military forces joined in the fight, the Qunari were curbstomped.

For once, you have a good point because my mind had forgotten about the Templars and the Circle both and how they probably would've been called in to defend the city if the Qunari were immediately hostile.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think Kirkwall has a dedicated military other than the city guard. And I would probably attribute the Qunari being "curb stopped" to Hawke's PC level skills more than anything.

[Hellion Rex]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The man landed with 300-500 men and could've easily taken over Kirkwall if he wanted, and then used the people of Kirkwall after converting to search for the relic. He didn't, because for the time being his duty wasn't to convert the people.

No. 500 men is not even close to enough to take over a city the size of Kirkwall.

The qunari had the element of surprise and were fighting the city guard - with is basicly police, not proper military.
As soon as the mages and templars and proper military forces joined in the fight, the Qunari were curbstomped.

For once, you have a good point because my mind had forgotten about the Templars and the Circle both and how they probably would've been called in to defend the city if the Qunari were immediately hostile.

Did it ever say exactly how many Qunari landed with the Arishok? Because Lotion does bring up a very good point. The mages and Templars would have blown away that few men in a heartbeat once they were mobilized to deal with the threat.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Varric's narration says there was "hundreds of warriors."

[Hellion Rex]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't think Kirkwall has a dedicated military other than the city guard. And I would probably attribute the Qunari being "curb stopped" to Hawke's PC level skills more than anything.

We traveled only through certain areas during the attack, and we do not know what happened after we passed through each area. The templars could have arrived with circle mages to help counteract any other sarebaas.

[Hellion Rex]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Varric's narration says there was "hundreds of warriors."

Ok. Thank you. Furthermore, do we know how many Templars and mages resided at the Gallows?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There's one codex entry dated from the Storm Age or something that also mentions that there are "hundreds" of mages in the gallows.

[LOLandStuff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

All Anders want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools. Whats wrong with that?

Nothing.
As long as he accepts that all I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal and the right to put my sword trough fools.
Oh, I consider Anders a fool b.t.w. .. sooo... yeah.. *STAB*

That was just a lie so he could manipulate her into blowing up stuff. Shooting lightining doesn't cut it. Blowing buildings and people to bits is so much better.
Did you see how colorful that explosion was?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Varric's narration says there was "hundreds of warriors."

Which isn't really much.
Normally when attacking cities, armies numbered in 10-20 thousands at least.

Cullen himself said that if the qunari attack, the templars are the largest and strongest army in Kikwall and they will be the one doing the heavy fighting. And they weren't dere during the opening stages.

The Arishok was no fool.
He knew he couldnt' take them.
Hence why a he made a surprise attack and made a bee-line for the viscounts keep.
Frankly I think he was fed up with everything and just wanted to die fighting.

[Warden661]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. 500 men is not even close to enough to take over a city the size of Kirkwall.

The qunari had the element of surprise and were fighting the city guard - with is basicly police, not proper military.
As soon as the mages and templars and proper military forces joined in the fight, the Qunari were curbstomped.

The Kirkwall city guard is the official army of Kirkwall. The are not just a police force. 

But to add to your points, the qunari were also already inside the city which would have helped them (the qunari) immensely 

Modifié par BoBear, 07 novembre 2013 - 08:47 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

It's still 500 qunari vs thousands of people, including hunders of mages and many more templars.
And a lot of them are city guards, mercenaries or ex-soldiers.

Hell, the people of Kirkwall could just suffocate the qunari with their bodies...the Red Army approach.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The man landed with 300-500 men and could've easily taken over Kirkwall if he wanted, and then used the people of Kirkwall after converting to search for the relic. He didn't, because for the time being his duty wasn't to convert the people.

No. 500 men is not even close to enough to take over a city the size of Kirkwall.

The qunari had the element of surprise and were fighting the city guard - with is basicly police, not proper military.
As soon as the mages and templars and proper military forces joined in the fight, the Qunari were curbstomped.

For once, you have a good point because my mind had forgotten about the Templars and the Circle both and how they probably would've been called in to defend the city if the Qunari were immediately hostile.

Actually the Viscount says, that even if he wanted to force the issue and make the Qunari leave, Kirkwall didn't have the resources to do so. Qunari soldiers are many times more worth than any single human soldier, so it isn't unrealistic that an elite force of 500 Qunari soldiers, with an undisclosed amount of auxiliaries in the form of Viddathari, could take over Kirkwall.

[LOLandStuff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Templars ant-mage ability is not a genuine skill as it's required to
inject Lyrium to obtain the ability thats why their powers is false.
It's a performance enhancing drug is what it is, and in all major
sporting events it's highly illegal because it's considered cheating.
People can ruin their careers by cheating.

This isn't a sport and no one in TheDas considers it cheating.
You use what tools are EFFECTIVE. To do anything else is sheer stupidity.

lol

Templars competing for the Anual Theodosian Olympics cheat by using lyrium, while mages go all emo and cut their wrists because nobody understands them and everyone is against them.

Modifié par LOLandStuff, 07 novembre 2013 - 12:02 .

[Hellion Rex]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

So I've started reading Asunder.... the book that everyone has been discussing here and what do I come across on the very first chapter?!?! Templars abusing the mages! The prisons (The pit) is rat infected and completely dark. When mages get toss in the cell almost right away the rats starts munching on their flesh with their razor sharp teeth, and theirs no way for the mage to escape the torture that they're experiencing.

This is a class act of oppression against mages.

That's nice.

Back on topic, here is a member of the Templar Order fighting a rage demon in the Circle.


As for what a rage demon is doing in our world; we can thank a mage (of course) for that particular blunder.

Yes, yes. We have seen all this crap before. Look, a demon! Curse those mages!<_<

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Okay, since I haven't played that game, what is your observation of this final impression and how does it differ from the aftermath of his attempt to kill Ella? And what makes you so sure he can hold it with a personification of Vengeance in his mind?

He's calmer, happier, more optimistic and more assured. He seems to be given a lot of hope by Hawke allowing him to live, in addition to saying that he'll try not to make such a mess of his life this time. And Justice is no longer hammering on the inside of his head to make him do something about the mage situation; he's now done something. Justice is satiated. Even if it demands more, said demands are likely to be less stringent.

Is it even possible for Justice to be permanently satiated? Even if the mages got everything they wanted, Justice would find something else to avenge. Furthermore, trying not to make a mess of things doesn't mean much; I'm mostly picturing Justice in control of the Anders cameo, not Anders himself.

Too unnecessarily angering to the Andersmancers for me to find it likely. I think that Anders will remain.

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Actually the Viscount says, that even if he wanted to force the issue and make the Qunari leave, Kirkwall didn't have the resources to do so. Qunari soldiers are many times more worth than any single human soldier, so it isn't unrealistic that an elite force of 500 Qunari soldiers, with an undisclosed amount of auxiliaries in the form of Viddathari, could take over Kirkwall.

I usually agree with you, but not here.
I feel the qunari are overblown. They are big, but swords cut them down like everyone else.

A force fo 500 is too small. Kirkwall is HUGE.
Maybe the Viscount was too scared..or he didn't have the power to order the tempalrs/mages to attack, hence he didn't count them?
Or he was reffering the guard already being stretched thin patrolling the streets and didn't want to risk an attack?

[EmperorSahlertz]

He pretty much sid, that if he wanted to force the Qunari out, it would mean battle, and that Kirkwall wouldn't win such a battle. Not his exact words, but that is the meaning I got from them.

500 Qunari warriors and X amount of Viddathari should be able to take a single city state. First and ofremost Qunari physiology is vastly superior to human. They are stronger, faster and tougher than humans. This makes a huge difference. And if their Viddathari forces are big enough, they have enough of a meatshield to not overtax their elite Qunari. Also the "standing army" of Kirkwall, is nothing but a glorified city guard, hardly a force as highly trained as Qunari. The one advantage that Kirkwall had would be the Circle mages and the Templars. But the Templars themselves doesn't hold any real advantage to the Qunari, other than being better combat trained than the city guard, and th mages are countered by Saarebas and Arvaarad.
Actually the biggest advantage Kirkwall had was Hawke...

[Lotion Soronarr]

I don't buy that.

Qunari run around shirtless. All their strength acounts to nothing against crossbow bolts.

And 500 is defiantely not enough to take a city state.

[dragonflight288]

Lord Raijin wrote...

So I've started reading Asunder.... the book that everyone has been discussing here and what do I come across on the very first chapter?!?! Templars abusing the mages! The prisons (The pit) is rat infected and completely dark. When mages get toss in the cell almost right away the rats starts munching on their flesh with their razor sharp teeth, and theirs no way for the mage to escape the torture that they're experiencing.

This is a class act of oppression against mages.

Wait until you get to the theories of how Cole came to be.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

If you wish to believe that the templars are uncorruptable be my guest . you are going to be proven wrong. But from my point view the mages are needed to close the fade tears. and if the templars get in the way they die.

I am not saying that the Templars are incorruptable. I am saying taht I am not willing, contrary to you, to make some **** statement that ALL Templars are now Red Templars, or that the Red Templars are demon worshippers. And my unwillingness to do so, stems simply from the fact that WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THEM! Is that really so hard to get for you?

Where their is smoke their is fire. but you seem to blinded by the smoke so you cannot see the fire. Anyway the templar supporters still have not given me a reason to support their little mage hunt.