4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Schneidend wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Note that you kill all of those in the mage ending too. You deal with non-templar problems equally firmly in both paths. The templars only distinguish themselves by murdering innocents.

Unfortunately, evil blood mages don't come with convenient labels in-universe, and there's no time for due process. The Rite of Annulment is definitely a terrible tragedy when it happens, but for once Meredith was right: it had to be done.
Hell, the only reason my Grey Warden saved the Circle was because he really didn't give a **** about blood magic or abominations, he just needed an army of fireball shooters. The Blight would have killed everybody long before a few dozen rogue mages would.

Actually in the instance of Kirkwall its pretty clear that mewredith has lost it, Orsino was right "my people cannot sneeze blah blah blah"

I sided with them because the Kirkwall Circle was legitimately a hell hole for mages.  Elsewhere in Thedas I don't think the situation is as bad.

[Mr.House]

I killed him and i got rivalry points after hearing his message. So yes, she supports helping a demon posses someone.

[Shadow Fox]

Mr.House wrote...

I killed him and i got rivalry points after hearing his message. So yes, she supports helping a demon posses someone.

<_<...*wacks Merrill upside the head*

BTW who's the girl in your avatar?

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 08 novembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

I killed him and i got rivalry points after hearing his message. So yes, she supports helping a demon posses someone.

If true, perhaps it's one of those anomalies, like Wynne approving of sleeping with Gheyna in Origins, or Varric being annoyed by you trying to help Ketojan. It's exceedingly OOC of her to want someone to be possessed, to be sure.

[Warden661]

Xilizhra wrote...

BoBear wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

She spoke with the demon once, to learn blood magic, which worked out perfectly insofar as she was able to cleanse the Eluvian shard. And the demon would have gotten to Marethari as long as Marethari was camping directly on top of the damned thing.

It doesn't matter that she only spoke to it once, the fact that she spoke to it at all is irresponsible. Plus she was going to go speak to it again becasue she still couldn't get the mirror to work and she was getting desperate. Like I said, she could have gotten herself possessed at any time.

Er, not really, because the demon was stuck in the idol. And being able to get rid of darkspawn taint was enough of an accomplishment that I'd say the risk was worth it.

As if being in the idol would have stopped it. As I said, Merril was getting desperate to get the mirror fixed, had she kept dealing with the demon it was only a matter of time before possession.

Never deal with a demon. Ever! Bottom line.

[Mr.House]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I killed him and i got rivalry points after hearing his message. So yes, she supports helping a demon posses someone.

<_<...*wacks Merrill upside the head*

BTW who's the girl in your avatar?

Yukari Takeba.

[Xilizhra]

As if being in the idol would have stopped it. As I said, Merril was getting desperate to get the mirror fixed, had she kept dealing with the demon it was only a matter of time before possession.

It's possible. Highly unlikely, since the demon went for Marethari, but possible, in the same way that it's possible for Anders to side with the templars.

Never deal with a demon. Ever! Bottom line.

It worked out swimmingly for my Grey Warden.

[Schneidend]

Steelcan wrote...

Actually in the instance of Kirkwall its pretty clear that mewredith has lost it, Orsino was right "my people cannot sneeze blah blah blah"

I sided with them because the Kirkwall Circle was legitimately a hell hole for mages.  Elsewhere in Thedas I don't think the situation is as bad.

Meredith lost it, but like I said she was right in that the Rite needed to be done either way. If the Templars didn't try to kill the mages, the people would have likely risen up and stomped both factions, and the Divine would have declared an Exalted March and burned the entire city to the ground. If you sided with the mages and wiped out the Templars, well, it's probably still Exalted March time because mages are the strongest faction in a city with no Templars. And how are the people going to respond to the fact that a mage murdered a church full of people and yet the mages are now the strongest faction in the city?

[Hazegurl]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Eh? To kill Merrill don't you just need less than 100% Rivalry/Friendship and side with the Templars?

Yup.

Really? Cause I never get 100% with her and yet whenever I side with the Templars I can talk her into helping me. I had no idea I could even kill her lol!

[Steelcan]

Schneidend wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Actually in the instance of Kirkwall its pretty clear that mewredith has lost it, Orsino was right "my people cannot sneeze blah blah blah"

I sided with them because the Kirkwall Circle was legitimately a hell hole for mages.  Elsewhere in Thedas I don't think the situation is as bad.

Meredith lost it, but like I said she was right in that the Rite needed to be done either way. If the Templars didn't try to kill the mages, the people would have likely risen up and stomped both factions, and the Divine would have declared an Exalted March and burned the entire city to the ground. If you sided with the mages and wiped out the Templars, well, it's probably still Exalted March time because mages are the strongest faction in a city with no Templars. And how are the people going to respond to the fact that a mage murdered a church full of people and yet the mages are now the strongest faction in the city?

Like any reasonable people should, they should rise up and be crushed by the new Magocracy:devil::devil::devil:

[Dave of Canada]

Steelcan wrote...

Actually in the instance of Kirkwall its pretty clear that mewredith has lost it, Orsino was right "my people cannot sneeze blah blah blah"

Orsino was also paranoid because he had things which would've incriminated himself if discovered. Discovering that most of the Circle--including the First Enchanter--were blood mages would've probably have given Meredith legitimate ground to stand upon for anullment, Elthina wouldn't have been able to defend him there.

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I killed him and i got rivalry points after hearing his message. So yes, she supports helping a demon posses someone.

If true, perhaps it's one of those anomalies, like Wynne approving of sleeping with Gheyna in Origins, or Varric being annoyed by you trying to help Ketojan. It's exceedingly OOC of her to want someone to be possessed, to be sure.

Wynne was a bug and Varric doesn't approve of involving yourself in sensitive political affairs.

Unless Merrill's disapproval was a bug, she supports demons.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 novembre 2013 - 04:02 .

[Warden661]

Xilizhra wrote...

As if being in the idol would have stopped it. As I said, Merril was getting desperate to get the mirror fixed, had she kept dealing with the demon it was only a matter of time before possession.

It's possible. Highly unlikely, since the demon went for Marethari, but possible, in the same way that it's possible for Anders to side with the templars.

The only reaon it went after Marethari is because she gave herself over to the demon willingly. If she didn't it's more than just possible that Merril would have been possessed. It would have been very likely.

[Steelcan]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Actually in the instance of Kirkwall its pretty clear that mewredith has lost it, Orsino was right "my people cannot sneeze blah blah blah"

Orsino was also paranoid because he had things which would've incriminated himself if discovered. Discovering that most of the Circle--including the First Enchanter--were blood mages would've probably have given Meredith legitimate ground to stand upon for anullment, Elthina wouldn't have been able to defend him there.

Probably, but I don't think insanity is considered probable cause for an annulment.  She had suspicions about them but no proof, and keep in mind she was insane.  She needed to be removed.

[Hazegurl]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I suppose the Circle wouldn't be such a bad place to live in once you've became an emotionless robot.

Jowan also was never given a chance for harrowing. He was deemed weak and a possible blood mage. Both of which were true.

Using Alrik's crimes is tiresome. We all know he isn't the template for all Templars and considering the fact that his stupid "solution" was rejected by everyone speaks volumes. Not saying some Mages didn't hate it there, I'm sure they did. But I guess it's difficult to accept that other mages actually liked the Circle cause it goes against your bias opinion.  

[Shadow Fox]

Mr.House wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I killed him and i got rivalry points after hearing his message. So yes, she supports helping a demon posses someone.

<_<...*wacks Merrill upside the head*

BTW who's the girl in your avatar?

Yukari Takeba.

Thank you.

[Xilizhra]

Meredith lost it, but like I said she was right in that the Rite needed to be done either way. If the Templars didn't try to kill the mages, the people would have likely risen up and stomped both factions, and the Divine would have declared an Exalted March and burned the entire city to the ground. If you sided with the mages and wiped out the Templars, well, it's probably still Exalted March time because mages are the strongest faction in a city with no Templars. And how are the people going to respond to the fact that a mage murdered a church full of people and yet the mages are now the strongest faction in the city?

Actually, the mages leave the city altogether and there's no mention of any Exalted March in Asunder, or even the possibility thereof. And if a riot tries to attack the Gallows (which it couldn't even do; it's an island fortress), it's the duty of the templars to stop them.

Wynne was a bug and Varric doesn't approve of involving yourself in sensitive political affairs.

Unless Merrill's disapproval was a bug, she supports demons.

We should ask Mary Kirby. As of now, there's no confirmation either way.

The only reaon it went after Marethari is because she gave herself over to the demon willingly. If she didn't it's more than just possible that Merril would have been possessed. It would have been very likely.

Marethari's also a more experienced mage and living directly next to Audacity for seven years straight, in addition to being far more prideful than Merrill. She's the true prime target.

[Dave of Canada]

Steelcan wrote...

She had suspicions about them but no proof, and keep in mind she was insane.

Which she wanted to search through the Circle for. I doubt she'd plant evidence however, she allows blood mages to return to the Circle without being executed/tranquilized in both Act 1 and Act 3 despite Circle rules suggesting that maleficar must be killed on sight.

No doubt about her insanity and needing to be removed, it's just that she was controlling rather than wanting all mages dead. She had positive traits even after the red lyrium decided to assassinate everything about the character.

[EmperorSahlertz]

[quote]AresKeith wrote...

[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Templar Order left the Chantry. If a Templar chose to remain loyal to the Chantry, he would no longer be a Templar.[/quote]

They would still be Templar's if they chose to stay with the Chantry

[/quote]
"Templar" is technically a title belonging to the Templar Order. Since this Order left the Chantry, anyone of the order who remained with the Chantry would no longer be part of the Order, and therefore not a Templar anymore. They'd still share the same skillset sure, but not the same title.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Eh, when you hear about beatings, rapings, illegal Tranquilizations, and poor Templar oversight... I think one mage going "It's not soo bad" doesn't amount to much.

Now, it'd be a different story if all of the douche Templars we killed had an effect on the Circle. Rooting out the weeds, as it were.

But nothing really changes, alas.

[/quote]
Well, technically several mages can say this line, since any unnamed mage walking around the Gallows can say it. It is after all a randomly generated line. I wouldn't put too much into the frequency of these lines. What they are supposed to convey, is that even in Kirkwall loyalist exists, who would downplay the horror, and Libertarians who would exaggerate it.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

I do think an argument between me an Eluvianix would produce better results than one between me and Raijin. At least, it would be interesting and we would only resort to the barest minimum of name calling.
[/quote]

I'd definitely enjoy seeing that.

There are a few people I'd enjoy having a discussion of that sort with, myself. EmperorSahlertz, for instance, or Dave of Canada.

And you, my friend!

[/quote]
Likewise good sir. I do however from time to time try to be as obnoxious as possible. But that is only because I believe that provocation is one of the best tests of character in existance.

But hoenstly what is this? I am gone for a few hours and suddenly everyone grows soft? Bring back the hate dammit!

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Their physiology is tough enough for them to survive a crossbow bolt.[/quote]

Except they would be hit by 10.
Because Kirkwall is a massive city with a metric crapton of armed men.[/quote]
Assuming the Qunari would be stupid enough to allow to be caught in a position where Kirkwall could be allowed to bring their numbers to bear. I see no such reason. If the Qunari were ever to take such an engagement, they would do so with a Viddathari meatshield.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
[quote]
Besides, the Viddathari are there to be hit.[/quote]

The scrawny, manlunrished, underequipped elves with practicly 0 combat experience?[/quote]
Yes exactly those. They are cheap, expendable and makes wonderful mess of things. They are not true soldiers like the other Qunari, but they get the job done. Mainly the job of being a meatshield for the actual Qunari....

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
[quote]
And an elite force can conquer what many times their own number of normal soldiers couldn't. [/quote]

Because clearly Kirkwall doesn't have elite forces of it's own? Like...veteran guardsman..templars...mages... the many mercenary gangs?[/quote]
The City Guard is certainly NOT an elite force. Actually the perfomance we are witness to throughout the game is subpar. They show they are a terrible millitary unit. Perhaps they are adequate law enforcers, I wouldn't know my expertise is in military, but they are certainly terrible soldiers.
The Templars and mage make up the only reliable professional force, but they are countered by the Qunari forces.
Mercenaries are, as always, not to be trusted. They are as likely to run away/abandon the battle, as they are to join the enemy. They fight for coin. And coin can't be enjoyed if you aren't alive to spend it. The mercenaries who lived in Kirkwall probably left during the fighting, perished, or didn't make any real impact on the fighitng.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
[quote]
The Templars and mages could probably have put up a fight on their own, but they were not likely to succeed. Without Hawke that is. Hawke changed everything.
[/quote]

Hawke is a tool and didn't hcange anything. The Tempalrs alone could have beat hte living snot out of the qunari.
The Arishok was suicidal.

[/quote]
Wether you like Hawke or not makes no difference. Hawke was the deciding factor in the Battle of Kirkwall. Had Hawke not been present the Qunari would have taken Kirkwall. The Qunari would probably not have been able to hold it (I doubt the rest of the Free Marches would allow it), but they could certainly take it.

[Steelcan]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

She had suspicions about them but no proof, and keep in mind she was insane.

Which she wanted to search through the Circle for. I doubt she'd plant evidence however, she allows blood mages to return to the Circle without being executed/tranquilized in both Act 1 and Act 3 despite Circle rules suggesting that maleficar must be killed on sight.

No doubt about her insanity and needing to be removed, it's just that she was controlling rather than wanting all mages dead. She had positive traits even after the red lyrium decided to assassinate everything about the character.

Had she been allowed on search she'd have found "evidence" certainly, but the question is whther the other templars would accept it as such.

This is the same person who thought her own subordinates were enthralled

[Schneidend]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Orsino was also paranoid because he had things which would've incriminated himself if discovered. Discovering that most of the Circle--including the First Enchanter--were blood mages would've probably have given Meredith legitimate ground to stand upon for anullment, Elthina wouldn't have been able to defend him there.

To be fair to Orsino, he wasn't actually a blood mage himself until he started using Quentin's research and turned himself into the flesh golem. Still, he knew about Quentin, which does make him an accomplice to a blood mage.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Schneidend wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Orsino was also paranoid because he had things which would've incriminated himself if discovered. Discovering that most of the Circle--including the First Enchanter--were blood mages would've probably have given Meredith legitimate ground to stand upon for anullment, Elthina wouldn't have been able to defend him there.

To be fair to Orsino, he wasn't actually a blood mage himself until he started using Quentin's research and turned himself into the flesh golem. Still, he knew about Quentin, which does make him an accomplice to a blood mage.

You don't spontanously learn how to turn yourself into a Harvester. Orsino was a Blood Mage beyond the intermediate level.

[Schneidend]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't spontanously learn how to turn yourself into a Harvester. Orsino was a Blood Mage beyond the intermediate level.

He's had Quentin's notes the whole time, and being the First Enchanter and an experienced mage he likely has a working knowledge of how to do blood magic or he wouldn't be able to understand Quentin's research. He says so himself that the final battle is the first time he ever actually used blood magic. You aren't a blood mage until you, unsurprisingly, use blood magic. I mean, he's still a heartless monster, but he technically was not a blood mage for 99% of the game.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Schneidend wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't spontanously learn how to turn yourself into a Harvester. Orsino was a Blood Mage beyond the intermediate level.

He's had Quentin's notes the whole time, and being the First Enchanter and an experienced mage he likely has a working knowledge of how to do blood magic or he wouldn't be able to understand Quentin's research. He says so himself that the final battle is the first time he ever actually used blood magic. You aren't a blood mage until you, unsurprisingly, use blood magic. I mean, he's still a heartless monster, but he technically was not a blood mage for 99% of the game.

That remains to be seen. There is evidence for and agaisnt demon involvement in becomming a Blood Mage. Either way I do not believe him. orsino practically did nothing throughout the entire game to gain my trust. I have no reason to belive his last words over his first words.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

She gets mad if you kill Torpor and don't help him posses somebody :/

Actually, no. She gets mad that you don't even attempt to try to use Torpor's desires to your own advantage in saving Feynriel, but she does NOT like selling out Feynriel at all.

What she approves of is that you go "Yeah sure" and then acquire information regarding Feynriel's mental state that proves useful, and how best to keep him both sane and alive.

Beyond the fact that she's not even present when Feynriel is handed over to be a meatsuit for Torpor -- and thus it's kinda hard for her to approve of something like that -- her entire MO is about playing spirits before they play you -- a mindset Hawke and the Warden, and arguably Morrigan, showcase.