4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She gets mad if you kill Torpor and don't help him posses somebody :/

Actually, no. She gets mad that you don't even attempt to try to use Torpor's desires to your own advantage in saving Feynriel, but she does NOT like selling out Feynriel at all.

What she approves of is that you go "Yeah sure" and then acquire information regarding Feynriel's mental state that proves useful, and how best to keep him both sane and alive.

Beyond the fact that she's not even present when Feynriel is handed over to be a meatsuit for Torpor -- and thus it's kinda hard for her to approve of something like that -- her entire MO is about playing spirits before they play you -- a mindset Hawke and the Warden, and arguably Morrigan, showcase.

That's some mighty handcanon you got there.

[Shadow Fox]

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She gets mad if you kill Torpor and don't help him posses somebody :/

Actually, no. She gets mad that you don't even attempt to try to use Torpor's desires to your own advantage in saving Feynriel, but she does NOT like selling out Feynriel at all.

What she approves of is that you go "Yeah sure" and then acquire information regarding Feynriel's mental state that proves useful, and how best to keep him both sane and alive.

Beyond the fact that she's not even present when Feynriel is handed over to be a meatsuit for Torpor -- and thus it's kinda hard for her to approve of something like that -- her entire MO is about playing spirits before they play you -- a mindset Hawke and the Warden, and arguably Morrigan, showcase.

That's some mighty handcanon you got there.

Handcanon?

[Hellion Rex]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She gets mad if you kill Torpor and don't help him posses somebody :/

Actually, no. She gets mad that you don't even attempt to try to use Torpor's desires to your own advantage in saving Feynriel, but she does NOT like selling out Feynriel at all.

What she approves of is that you go "Yeah sure" and then acquire information regarding Feynriel's mental state that proves useful, and how best to keep him both sane and alive.

Beyond the fact that she's not even present when Feynriel is handed over to be a meatsuit for Torpor -- and thus it's kinda hard for her to approve of something like that -- her entire MO is about playing spirits before they play you -- a mindset Hawke and the Warden, and arguably Morrigan, showcase.

That's some mighty handcanon you got there.

Handcanon?

Head canon.

[TEWR]

Lord Raijin wrote...

See, this wouldn't bug me so much if he had said "The KC and FE knew I was too weak", because then I could say "Well... he was too weak and for once Meredith and Orsino were able to work together, as is Circle protocol, to determine who is fit and who is not."

But this? It's just more of Meredith trying to run roughshod over what little rights the Mages do have.

BlueMagitek wrote...

Also try to avoid 6 posts in a row. ~_~"

NEVER!!!! DEATH FIRST!!!

Alrik was one Templar. His plan of Tranquilizing all mages was unfeasible.

One Templar in command of others, with only one of them being of a decent mindset and bringing the matter to Meredith -- who then promptly ignored it -- and being blackmailed into carrying out the orders.

And getting killed for it, sadly.

Alrik is indicative of the problematic lack of oversight inherent in Kirkwall's system. Meredith could not have failed to notice the growing number of unauthorized Tranquil, as per DAO it takes the authorized signature and seal of both the FE and KC to perform the RoT on any mage.

No doubt, these things would have been brought to her attention either through gossip, subordinates, Orsino yelling about it, or just common sense.

With her doing nothing about it -- no investigation, no reprimands, nothing -- it's a clear sign of her tacit approval of what's going, particularly with the above image demonstrating that she doesn't give a damn about working with Orsino as is Chantry law regarding Circle operations.

In the Templar Ending, she is unsure whether she is worthy of Hawke's mercy.

In the Templar ending, she chides Meredith for assuming everyone is guilty, regardless of whether it's true or not. She's lost everyone she held dear. Her students, her mentor, and even her sibling who was willing to do something like that.

wolfhowwl wrote...


I was never able to take Hawke
seriously after someone pointed out his resemblance to the Sheriff of
Rottingham.

"He deered to slay a king's dare!"

Man, I now wish DAII had a Robin Hood: Men in Tights reference or two.

Also, remember that we have two in-game examples of Circles, Fereldan and Kirkwall.

We also have Alain's comments on Starkhaven, telling us that it was only marginally better then Kirkwall. In Kirkwall, Mages get beaten in public and no one says a thing to stop it.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She gets mad if you kill Torpor and don't help him posses somebody :/

Actually, no. She gets mad that you don't even attempt to try to use Torpor's desires to your own advantage in saving Feynriel, but she does NOT like selling out Feynriel at all.

What she approves of is that you go "Yeah sure" and then acquire information regarding Feynriel's mental state that proves useful, and how best to keep him both sane and alive.

Beyond the fact that she's not even present when Feynriel is handed over to be a meatsuit for Torpor -- and thus it's kinda hard for her to approve of something like that -- her entire MO is about playing spirits before they play you -- a mindset Hawke and the Warden, and arguably Morrigan, showcase.

That's some mighty handcanon you got there.

Considering that I've talked to Torpor and then killed him and, near as I can recall, she hasn't gained Rivalry from it... I think I'm more then spot on and I'll thank you kindly to not go the Lotion Soronnar route of disregarding anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.

Considering that she says, in the DR, that you can work with a Demon without falling subject to its whims, I think I'm spot on.

Considering that she knows there's no such thing as an inherently good spirit, I think I'm spot on.

Considering that she'll say in the Fade a method to resist Torpor's powers -- something that is rather obvious when you think about it (think active thoughts is what she says -- I think I'm spot on.

Considering that she really isn't present when Hawke goes "Hey demon, chow time!" then yeah, I think I've got more then enough to say this isn't some contrived bit of headcanon and is actually based on in-game evidence.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 novembre 2013 - 05:08 .

[Lord Raijin]

Steelcan wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
DLC I presume? 

When the main game starts to focus on the mage/templar conflict and the only time you see mages not screwing up with blood magic is in a DLC there's a problem.

What about Alain (Non-DLC) who used blood magic to free either your love one or someone close to you after your fight with Grace is over with in Best Served Cold.

Your example of a responsible blood mage is one who joined up with Grace<_<

He reluctantly joined forces with Grace and Ser Thrask to overthrow Knight-Commander Meredith. Who wouldn't when she was terrorizing the city. He turned against Grace when she made it clear that she wanted Hawke dead. She striked at him and killed Ser Task by using blood magic against him, and then attacked Hawke. After the battle was over with he assisted Hawke by begrudgingly using blood magic to free Hawke's family member or close friend.

Alain is a responsible blood mage

[Mr.House]

Alain was a fool.

[TEWR]

Alain was scared and being raped constantly, on top of being beaten.

Even with Karras dead it still goes on.

I'll not blame him for joining a rebellion against Meredith.

[Shadow Fox]

Mr.House wrote...

Alain was a fool.

And a coward.

[His Name was HYR!!]

 Hey now. There's nothing wrong with making a deal with a demon, so long as you don't honor it!

If you play your cards right, you'll get something nice before killing it.

Happened in the Deep Roads. Happened at Soldier's Peak.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 08 novembre 2013 - 05:17 .

[Shadow Fox]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alain was scared and being raped constantly, on top of being beaten.

Even with Karras dead it still goes on.

I'll not blame him for joining a rebellion against Meredith.

I blame him for running back to the Templars when his buddies start using blood magic

[Shadow Fox]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Hey now. There's nothing wrong with making a deal with a demon, so long as you don't honor it!

If you play your cards right, you'll get something nice before killing it.

Happened in the Deep Roads. Happened at Soldier's Peak.

Unless it backfires.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Hey now. There's nothing wrong with making a deal with a demon, so long as you don't honor it!

If you play your cards right, you'll get something nice before killing it.

Happened in the Deep Roads. Happened at Soldier's Peak.

Unless it backfires.

Still, you can hear out a demon and verbally agree, but not necessarily give it what it wants.

I think in Merril's case she just wanted you to hear him out. You can "accept" the deal but ultimately kill him.

[dragonflight288]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alain was scared and being raped constantly, on top of being beaten.

Even with Karras dead it still goes on.

I'll not blame him for joining a rebellion against Meredith.

I blame him for running back to the Templars when his buddies start using blood magic

So his buddies using blood magic was a good thing? Or are you saying he's partly responsible for his being abused by rape and beaten by templars?

[dragonflight288]

Mr.House wrote...

She gets mad if you kill Torpor and don't help him posses somebody :/

Etheral already responded to this on a previous page, but I thought I'd add something as well.

If you have Anders in your party and try playing along with Torpor, Anders/Justice will throw a fit, but if you tell them that you're simply playing the demon and have absolutely no intention of following through with it, simply getting information that you lack, you actually get friendship points with Justice and Anders.

Same concept with Merrill.

[Shadow Fox]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alain was scared and being raped constantly, on top of being beaten.

Even with Karras dead it still goes on.

I'll not blame him for joining a rebellion against Meredith.

I blame him for running back to the Templars when his buddies start using blood magic

So his buddies using blood magic was a good thing? Or are you saying he's partly responsible for his being abused by rape and beaten by templars?

No I blame him for trying to use the Templars as a safety net after his buddies do something he's uncomfortable with and for going back to the Circle that abuses him because of it.

[Warden661]

Lord Raijin wrote...
Alain is a responsible blood mage

That's an oxymoron.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alain was scared and being raped constantly, on top of being beaten.

Even with Karras dead it still goes on.

I'll not blame him for joining a rebellion against Meredith.

I blame him for running back to the Templars when his buddies start using blood magic

So his buddies using blood magic was a good thing? Or are you saying he's partly responsible for his being abused by rape and beaten by templars?

No I blame him for trying to use the Templars as a safety net after his buddies do something he's uncomfortable with and for going back to the Circle that abuses him because of it.

Do we actually know that the Starkhaven Circle was as bad as all that? For that matter, would Alain have known how bad the Kirkwall one was? At any rate, what Decimus was doing was legitimately dangerous. They were creating skeletons, which apparently has to involve spirits of some kind and seems like it usually involves demons. They were using Blood Magic to do so, which I think of necessity involves demons. The Templars might not seem so bad in that context.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 novembre 2013 - 06:20 .

[Shadow Fox]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alain was scared and being raped constantly, on top of being beaten.

Even with Karras dead it still goes on.

I'll not blame him for joining a rebellion against Meredith.

I blame him for running back to the Templars when his buddies start using blood magic

So his buddies using blood magic was a good thing? Or are you saying he's partly responsible for his being abused by rape and beaten by templars?

No I blame him for trying to use the Templars as a safety net after his buddies do something he's uncomfortable with and for going back to the Circle that abuses him because of it.

Do we actually know that the Starkhaven Circle was as bad as all that? For that matter, would Alain have known how bad the Kirkwall one was? At any rate, what Decimus was doing was legitimately dangerous. They were creating skeletons, which apparently has to involve spirits of some kind and seems like it usually involves demons. They were using Blood Magic to do so, which I think of necessity involves demons. The Templars might not seem so bad in that context.

I'm talking about his joining  Thrask and Grace.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Lord Raijin wrote...
Base on DA2 the Circle mages were being slaughtered left and right by the Qunari . Even the First Enchanter got KO'ed and finally came too when Hawke and Knight-Commander Meredith arrived to the scene.
[/quote]

5 mages who were out in the city and were caught by surprise by probably the entire qunari force going to the viscounts keep.
Yeah...


[quote]
Elthina had the power to imprison the former Viscount of Kirkwall. If
she was truly getting fed up with Meredith she would've had her
arrested. Why didn't she do that? Why didn't she step up and did took
drastic actions? After all she was Meredith's Boss.
[/quote]

Ahemn..."You can see she is becoming more and more fed up with Meredith."

Do you know your tenses? Becoming - as in an ongoing process, sill not finished. Her anger-meter wasn't full yet.



[quote]
[quote]And becoming too friendly won't cause furhter problems?[/quote]
No it won't. If you give respect you will earn respect.[/quote]

How naive you are to think that emotional connections wouldn't interefere with duties.


[quote]
People are people. And no. Hes not right.[quote]

And mages are not like normal people.
He is right.


[quote] I am not on drugs but I've seen what it does to people and how it can effect families.[/quote]

I am not convinced


[quote]
The truth does hurt doesn't it?[/quote]

Must be the reason why you're running away from it so had.

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Assuming the Qunari would be stupid enough to allow to be caught in a position where Kirkwall could be allowed to bring their numbers to bear. I see no such reason. If the Qunari were ever to take such an engagement, they would do so with a Viddathari meatshield.
Yes exactly those. They are cheap, expendable and makes wonderful mess of things. They are not true soldiers like the other Qunari, but they get the job done. Mainly the job of being a meatshield for the actual Qunari....

So you assume trained mercenaries would break lines and flee, but scrawny elves in rags wouldnt?

Seriously Emperor, I agrreed with you on pretty much anything so far, but I just cannot agree with your assesment on Quanri strength.

Mercenaries are, as always, not to be trusted. They are as likely to run away/abandon the battle, as they are to join the enemy. They fight for coin. And coin can't be enjoyed if you aren't alive to spend it. The mercenaries who lived in Kirkwall probably left during the fighting, perished, or didn't make any real impact on the fighitng.

Mecenaries who aren't reliable and flee are mercenaries that never get hired.

Wether you like Hawke or not makes no difference. Hawke was the deciding factor in the Battle of Kirkwall. Had Hawke not been present the Qunari would have taken Kirkwall. The Qunari would probably not have been able to hold it (I doubt the rest of the Free Marches would allow it), but they could certainly take it.

I disagree with that. BioWare has inflated Hawkes importance, but has not presented a proper reasonign for it.
Nothing more can be said about it.



*****

On a side note, looking at the mages support thread and this - pro-mages are FAR more active in going into pro-templar threads than vice-versa (especially some).  Proof of their obsession right there.

[LOLandStuff]

At least templars doing "drugs" doesn't end up in them killing whole villages unlike some people who cut their wrists and get possessed.

Modifié par LOLandStuff, 08 novembre 2013 - 07:38 .

[Lord Raijin]

Hazegurl wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I suppose the Circle wouldn't be such a bad place to live in once you've became an emotionless robot.

Jowan also was never given a chance for harrowing. He was deemed weak and a possible blood mage. Both of which were true.

Using Alrik's crimes is tiresome. We all know he isn't the template for all Templars and considering the fact that his stupid "solution" was rejected by everyone speaks volumes. Not saying some Mages didn't hate it there, I'm sure they did. But I guess it's difficult to accept that other mages actually liked the Circle cause it goes against your bias opinion.  

According to F.E Irving Jowan was scheduled to be involuntary undergo the rite of tranquility. He was never given a chance for the Harrowing because the Knight-Commander supposedly found a witness that saw Jowan dabbling in blood magic. Just because you turn to blood magic doesn't mean that you're deemed weak.

Using Alrik crimes is not tiredsome. It would've caused a lot of problems in Kirkwall had the other mages knew of it, and it was illegal by Chantry law. Cullen didn't seem to have a care in the world for what Alrik was doing, and he was his superior on top it off. When Elthina heard about his plan she inappropriately reacted over his death rather than what he was doing to the mages, and that he was breaking Chantries laws. His death was murder in her eyes, not justice.

As a pro-mage I'm definitely not an Anti-Circle. I am in fact extremely pro-Circle as I find it very important source to help youth mages to manage their magic talents, and to use it responsibility. I do not want the Circle to vanish I want it to thrive and for it to prosper. I would like to see people actually wanting to take their mage children to the circle without being forced to. I want adult mages to have the desire to go to the Circle to get trained rather then being force to to go there with shackles on their wrists after being captured like an animal by their templar hunters.

I expect fairness clarity and consistency if the Chantry must run the Circle.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...


So his buddies using blood magic was a good thing? Or are you saying he's partly responsible for his being abused by rape and beaten by templars?

No I blame him for trying to use the Templars as a safety net after his buddies do something he's uncomfortable with and for going back to the Circle that abuses him because of it.

Do we actually know that the Starkhaven Circle was as bad as all that? For that matter, would Alain have known how bad the Kirkwall one was? At any rate, what Decimus was doing was legitimately dangerous. They were creating skeletons, which apparently has to involve spirits of some kind and seems like it usually involves demons. They were using Blood Magic to do so, which I think of necessity involves demons. The Templars might not seem so bad in that context.

I'm talking about his joining  Thrask and Grace.

Oh, those blood magic wielding buddies. Yes, going back to the Templars after that falls apart is monumentally stupid.

Edit: Or maybe not. Was he known to be trying to subvert the Templars, or known to be capable of blood magic? There's a logic to Alain going back to the Templars and waiting for the next oppurtunity, unless they're absolutely flatly going to kill him if he even tries this. I'm pretty sure they still have his phylactery.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 novembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
See, this wouldn't bug me so much if he had said "The KC and FE knew I was too weak", because then I could say "Well... he was too weak and for once Meredith and Orsino were able to work together, as is Circle protocol, to determine who is fit and who is not."

But this? It's just more of Meredith trying to run roughshod over what little rights the Mages do have.

I don't think that lines denies the FE agreed to it.
Could be, but then again, could not.
I wouldn't call it conclusive, especially since poeple live to drop details for brevity in conversations.

Alrik is indicative of the problematic lack of oversight inherent in Kirkwall's system. Meredith could not have failed to notice the growing number of unauthorized Tranquil, as per DAO it takes the authorized signature and seal of both the FE and KC to perform the RoT on any mage.

You are assuming he didn't get them.
Someone in Alariks position could be fabricating evidence, leaving Orsino little choice but to agree.
Of course, this in itself wouldbe problematic, but foul play is always difficult to detect if the perpetrator is smart about it.