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[Lord Raijin]

General TSAR wrote...

Come to think of it, Gregaior and Irving are always seen together, almost as if they connected at the ...I....Uhh....oh.

Implications....Unpleasant.

You  might be right. These two seems to be too close. It's good to hear. perhabs mages and templars can get a long after all.

Just hear Irvings response to Greagoir :devil:

The circle seems to be a fun place to be after all.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 09 novembre 2013 - 03:11 .

[Xilizhra]

A tidbit about Tevinter and the qunari: when the qunari made their first attack on Thedas in the Steel Age and carved deep into Tevinter, it wasn't much freer for mages than the rest of Thedas. The magisters only returned to power in 7:34 Storm, when Archon Nomaran was elected, the first mage archon in centuries.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm pretty sure that codex entry is wrong. It also says it's by a Revered Father in Qarinius yet the author talks as if he's a member of the White Chantry.

World of Thedas also says that the Altus regained their place at the top of Tevinter society within a few generations of Hesserion's reforms. It even talks about how Archons were chosen directly from the ranks of the Magisters until the Black Age and non-mages were only allowed to into the Magisterium for a century after the Transfiguration.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 09 novembre 2013 - 04:46 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

We have from Gaider that Tevinter still isn't that much freer for mages than the rest of Thedas, unless you're one of the best in the country. (Though on the other hand, Fenris says otherwise.)

As for the strongest of the mages getting back to the top in a few generations, does it specifically state they did so openly? The Codex states that the magisters already had power before the mages took back over the position of Archon, they just had it in practice rather than in theory.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 09 novembre 2013 - 04:37 .

[Hellion Rex]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

We have from Gaider that Tevinter still isn't that much freer for mages than the rest of Thedas, unless you're one of the best in the country. (Though on the other hand, Fenris says otherwise.)

As for the strongest of the mages getting back to the top in a few generations, does it specifically state they did so openly? The Codex states that the magisters already had power before the mages took back over the position of Archon, they just had it in practice rather than in theory.

I am more inclined to believe that Father Gaider is right in this regard. Tevinter is a lot more free than the Andrastian Chantry, but the higher and stronger you are, the more liberties you are given.

Modifié par eluvianix, 09 novembre 2013 - 04:41 .

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

We have from Gaider that Tevinter still isn't that much freer for mages than the rest of Thedas, unless you're one of the best in the country. (Though on the other hand, Fenris says otherwise.)

As for the strongest of the mages getting back to the top in a few generations, does it specifically state they did so openly? The Codex states that the magisters already had power before the mages took back over the position of Archon, they just had it in practice rather than in theory.

I am more inclined to believe that Father Gaider is right in this regard. Tevinter is a lot more free than the Andrastian Chantry, but the higher and stronger you are, the more liberties you are given.

One of the biggest differences is, beyond the whole change in culture, is that Tevinter's templars don't have lyrium, and thereby don't have magic negating abilities.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

We have from Gaider that Tevinter still isn't that much freer for mages than the rest of Thedas, unless you're one of the best in the country. (Though on the other hand, Fenris says otherwise.)

As for the strongest of the mages getting back to the top in a few generations, does it specifically state they did so openly? The Codex states that the magisters already had power before the mages took back over the position of Archon, they just had it in practice rather than in theory.

I am more inclined to believe that Father Gaider is right in this regard. Tevinter is a lot more free than the Andrastian Chantry, but the higher and stronger you are, the more liberties you are given.

One of the biggest differences is, beyond the whole change in culture, is that Tevinter's templars don't have lyrium, and thereby don't have magic negating abilities.

Which is exactly why I don't think Tevinter is the best example of what would happen if mages are given more freedom. The Andrastian nations have templars that CAN negate magic, so I do not think the templars would let the mages cause any real damage.

[Hazegurl]

Did the Tevinter Templars have Lyrium at one point before the Magisters took over?

[Hellion Rex]

Hazegurl wrote...

Did the Tevinter Templars have Lyrium at one point before the Magisters took over?

It turns out that the Tevinters learned how to use lyrium from the captured elves of Arlathan after the city was sunk, so probably not.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I come back and see we haven't made any progress in the debate

If I didn't know better, i'd say you sounded surprised.

[Shadow Fox]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

If that was the case why did he join Thrask's rebellion in the first place?I guess I don't have much sympathy for people who willingly return to a place/situation where they'll be abused instead of at-least trying to seek help.

Alain joined Thrask rebellion because it was also Grace rebellion as well. Grace was probably like a family member to him, since that is all who he knows and have, and the fact that Meredith made several of his own Circle members from Starkhaven tranquil without a proper cause gave him more reasons to join the rebellion against Meredith.

I have far more respect for those who's willingly return to a place/situation where they know they will be abused. It's call being loyal to your comrades.

Alain reminds me a of a British POW who escaped over 200 times to be with his girlfriend during WW2.

Here's a short story about this true loyal man.

The man's name was Horace Greasley. He was a British POW famous for escaping over 200 times to visit his girlfriend, a local Jewish girl. Why did he keep going back? Loyalty. He returned every time with extra food or other contraband to share with his fellow captives. Greasley spent 5 years as a prisoner of war, during which time he served as camp barber and worked in the marble quarries.

Following capture, the men were forced to march for ten weeks from France to Poland. The men suffered deplorable conditions and spent a winter, in temperatures as low as -40C, lodged in an old horse stable. Those who survived the march and train transfer were beaten, tortured, and starved. Greasley was once beaten so badly he lay unconscious for 2 days. In 2008, his biography, "Do the Birds Still Sing in Hell?" was published. Two years after its release, he died at age 91.

When I see this photo, I always admire the defiance in his face. He refused to be broken. Be that guy.

Oh and by the way, the German officer he's staring down is Heinrich Himmler.

Alain reminds me of this hero and true loyal man.

Except he abandons them twice for his own personal safety...

[The Flying Grey Warden]

The more I see that post, the more I am reminded how much raijin is detestable, and how much people will trivialize other events in order to try and make an "I win" post.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Of course he is, he had to drag a war heroes name through the dirt by comparing him to cowardly video game wimp to say they were both the same.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

So force everyone to submit to the Qun, kill the mages, kill the elves, and call it a day?

[Shadow Fox]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

So force everyone to submit to the Qun, kill the mages, kill the elves, and call it a day?

Or we could compromise?:innocent:

[The Flying Grey Warden]

No, don't be an alistar on this.

Kill the elves, tranquil qunari, force templars to serve the qun, blood sacrifice all mages, and make sure the dragons have plenty of imperials to snack on.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

No, don't be an alistar on this.

Kill the elves, tranquil qunari, force templars to serve the qun, blood sacrifice all mages, and make sure the dragons have plenty of imperials to snack on.

Actually this works much better.

Good myn.

[Shadow Fox]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

No, don't be an alistar on this.

Kill the elves, tranquil qunari, force templars to serve the qun, blood sacrifice all mages, and make sure the dragons have plenty of imperials to snack on.

B-But my girlfriend's an elf and  my sister's a mage!*horror*

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 09 novembre 2013 - 09:03 .

[TEWR]

d the fact that Meredith made several of his own Circle members from Starkhaven tranquil without a proper cause gave

WHOA THERE.

I didn't read the rest of your post after that paragraph, so I'm not going to talk on it, but this is just patently untrue.

As much as I have a problem with Meredith, the Circle system as it currently stands, and the Templar Order, Meredith DID have a valid reason for making some of those mages Tranquil. They were apostates, associated with a blood mage or two (ignoring my own personal opinion on Decimus being a good guy, if rather rash), and the man they were following was suspected of burning down the Starkhaven Circle.

She had valid reasons for making some of them Tranquil.

What I DO draw issue with is the fact that she did it by picking some of them at random, as opposed to say... picking the most suspicious ones. Picking them at random was just a pointless display of sadism that ultimately engendered growing tensions.

If she had picked the most suspicious ones, well, Grace wouldn't have been an issue down the line -- and this is ignoring the question of "Was she or was she not a blood mage at the time?"

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I think this site just needs a big disclaimer that all discussions may end up involving world war 2 era germany comparisons.

You said something about world war 2 era?

I got a gift from Hitler himself:

[The Elder King]

I'd like to re-start the discussion about the templar/Seekers division in Inquisition. As i said before, I don't think we can dismiss any possibilities about the templars organization in Inquisition, due to presence of the red templars (when they were revealed I recall many pro-templars feared that they'll rapresent the whole Templar Order). We can't dismiss the possibility of all templars that went against the mages to be red templars.
But, considering the words of bioware devs about the conflict in the GI videos, I find this unlikely, and more possible that the templars split up in two different groups.

This is supported by the first concept arts of the game, the ones with the hooded figure with rings (which we know mean something, as Mary Kirby said). In the concepts the four rings rapresent the Circle, the Seekers, the Templars, plus a red ring. If the rings rapresent the different factions in DAI, the red ring most likely rapresent the red templars, as a different faction from the templars that are at war with the mages.

It's unlikely that the Chantry managed to get enough men and women to re-establish two different organizations like the templars and the Seekers. Considering Cassandra's presence, I'd say that the templars/Seekers that left the Chantry reorganized themselves and the TO and the Chantry reorganized their whole forces (the templars and the Seekers that remained loyal) as the Seekers.
I apologize if this was already brought up in the thread.

Modifié par hhh89, 09 novembre 2013 - 01:47 .

[Xilizhra]

She had valid reasons for making some of them Tranquil.

That assume that there are any valid reasons for making people Tranquil, which I do not see there being.

But, considering the words of bioware devs about the conflict in the GI videos, I find this unlikely, and more possible that the templars split up in two different groups.

I do hope they're the entire Order outside the Chantry.

This is supported by the first concept arts of the game, the ones with the hooded figure with rings (which we know mean something, as Mary Kirby said). In the concepts the four rings rapresent the Circle, the Seekers, the Templars, plus a red ring. If the rings rapresent the different factions in DAI, the red ring most likely rapresent the red templars, as a different faction from the templars that are at war with the mages.

Unless this refers to PC origins before they decided on racial ones.