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[The Elder King]

Considering that the concept arts came out after the IGN trailer (June 2013), were the race choices were probably already more than an hyphothesis, and the PC origin talk was last year, I'd say it'd likely that they mean something else than PC origin choices.
Plus, I seem to recall that Mary said that they weren't related to the PC's background. Beside, even if race choices/background choices were being discussed in June, I don't think Mary would've said that the rings concept arts were related to something in-game that at that point wasn't definitely present in the game.
But I can be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
Regardless, do you think that my theory is possible (even if you hope that the RT rapresents the whole templars)?

Modifié par hhh89, 09 novembre 2013 - 01:59 .

[Xilizhra]

hhh89 wrote...

Considering that the concept arts came out after the IGN trailer (June 2013), were the race choices were probably already more than an hyphothesis, and the PC origin talk was last year, I'd say it'd likely that they mean something else than PC origin choices.
Plus, I seem to recall that Mary said that they weren't related to the PC's background. Beside, even if race choices/background choices were being discussed in June, I don't think Mary would've said that the rings concept arts were related to something in-game that at that point wasn't definitely present in the game.
But I can be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
Regardless, do you think that my theory is possible (even if you hope that the RT rapresents the whole templars)?

Your theory is possible, yes. I just sort of hope it doesn't come to fruition.

[The Elder King]

I hope the contrary, since from my POV I'd like to have a conflict where both sides have good points and bad points.
Though my biggest hope is to have a third, neutral approach to the war, which I remember you don't want as well.

Modifié par hhh89, 09 novembre 2013 - 02:07 .

[Xilizhra]

hhh89 wrote...

I hope the contrary, since from my POV I'd like to have a conflict where both sides have good points and bad points.

Is that not what the Chantry's for?

And if they do so for the templars, I want them to do the same for Tevinter.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I hope the contrary, since from my POV I'd like to have a conflict where both sides have good points and bad points.

Is that not what the Chantry's for?

And if they do so for the templars, I want them to do the same for Tevinter.

The Chantry might not be involved to the conflict for various reasons. While the leaked survey could be false or bioware might have changed the plot, there's the possibility of the Chantry begin nearly destroyed. Plus the conflict, as Bioware talked about so far, is about mages and templars, not mages and the Chantry.
I'd like to see Tevinter's good side, even though I doubt it'll change my opinon about it (though to be fair I don't have a good opinion of most the states we know about). 

Modifié par hhh89, 09 novembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

[dragonflight288]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

What kind of rule changes of necessity are you thinking of?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Because class balance and plot.

And 5 mages caugh off-guard vs 500 qunari (who had their own mages)? Yeah.

I strongly doubt that they were approched by 500 qunari.

Didn't the qunari storm the Viscounts keep?
Storming a location means rushing in there with most of your troops.

She failed at controling her templars and failed at protecting the city from her corrupted templars. She's a FAILED Grand Cleric and some of the citizens acknowledges this, and requested a replacement Grand Cleric. It's not that hard to comprehend, since the evidence is all in the game.

And it's not that hard to comprehend that things sometimes take time.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

What kind of rule changes of necessity are you thinking of?

That's what the conclave would determine.

Basicly, go trough all the rules and re-evaluate them (on their effectivness in achieving what they were supposed to do), see if alternatives can be found, etc...
So that would include things like the frequency of letting mages out of the tower, visits, kids, etc..

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 09 novembre 2013 - 02:39 .

[The Elder King]

It should be noted that Elthina's fault was about not stopping Meredith, not the templars. She has the power to demote her. She has no power to say to Meredith or any KC how to handle the templars (other than, again, demoting her). The KC has full power over the templars in his/her care, united he/she's demoted. The templars aren't the GC's templars; they're the KC's templars.

[LOLandStuff]

Lord Raijin wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

How naive you are to think that emotional connections wouldn't interefere with duties.

Uh, what? If you as a templar show respect for mages then the mages will entrust you, and will give you respect back.

Do I have to bring up Grace again?
Oh wait, I just did.

You do that while I'll bring up Ser Maurevar Carver and Malcolm hawke once more

You never brought them up, but whatever.

Grace was still an ungrateful b***h who tried to kill you because she was too dumb to avoid getting caught.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I hope the contrary, since from my POV I'd like to have a conflict where both sides have good points and bad points.

Is that not what the Chantry's for?

And if they do so for the templars, I want them to do the same for Tevinter.

There's not much to say about Tevinter as a whole; it's a nation of slave-trading blood mages. Now, I can get behind there being good people in that bad country (which I believe has already been shown in the comics), and that bad country working to weaken the arguably worse Qunari, if that's what you meant. Maybe even a group of reformers who want Tevinter to be better than it is.

[Hellion Rex]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I hope the contrary, since from my POV I'd like to have a conflict where both sides have good points and bad points.

Is that not what the Chantry's for?

And if they do so for the templars, I want them to do the same for Tevinter.

There's not much to say about Tevinter as a whole; it's a nation of slave-trading blood mages. Now, I can get behind there being good people in that bad country (which I believe has already been shown in the comics), and that bad country working to weaken the arguably worse Qunari, if that's what you meant. Maybe even a group of reformers who want Tevinter to be better than it is.

If I remember correctly, such a blurb was attribued to the Tevinter mage Dorian whom we got to hear a bit about in the survey leak. I would like to hear a point of view that contrasts with that of Fenris, considering he was completely biased against mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I hope the contrary, since from my POV I'd like to have a conflict where both sides have good points and bad points.

Is that not what the Chantry's for?

And if they do so for the templars, I want them to do the same for Tevinter.

There's not much to say about Tevinter as a whole; it's a nation of slave-trading blood mages. Now, I can get behind there being good people in that bad country (which I believe has already been shown in the comics), and that bad country working to weaken the arguably worse Qunari, if that's what you meant. Maybe even a group of reformers who want Tevinter to be better than it is.

If I remember correctly, such a blurb was attribued to the Tevinter mage Dorian whom we got to hear a bit about in the survey leak. I would like to hear a point of view that contrasts with that of Fenris, considering he was completely biased against mages.

To be honest fenris may exaggerate his stories about tev because he was biased but tev proved many bad thing ther happen.

[Hazegurl]

Actually Fenris tells Hawke that he understands that there are good mages. But there are also weak minded mages, and those are the ones to be fearful of. I also don't see how Fenris could have exaggerated much about Tevinter.

His master was a snake who killed a child to entertain guests. Most likely other members of high society in Tevinter. His sister tells him that becoming a slave was actually much better than not being one in Tevinter. Lambert gave his own account of how the things were there. I think it's safe to assume that Tevinter is a rotten place for those with no real power.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hazegurl wrote...

Actually Fenris tells Hawke that he understands that there are good mages. But there are also weak minded mages, and those are the ones to be fearful of. I also don't see how Fenris could have exaggerated much about Tevinter.

His master was a snake who killed a child to entertain guests. Most likely other members of high society in Tevinter. His sister tells him that becoming a slave was actually much better than not being one in Tevinter. Lambert gave his own account of how the things were there. I think it's safe to assume that Tevinter is a rotten place for those with no real power.

Well i would have issues trusing guy who crush peoples hearts even if he promised not and try vilify every mage hawke goal and his view point is from slave side also lambert were naive enough to belive in tevinter so rather things wasn't so obvious until he was betrayed but still it is rather horrible place but i don't think it is much worse than orlais for non-nobles or antiva. So practically every country is horrible in some way some less others more with ferelden being most "nice" country and we don't know much about nevarra.   

[dragonflight288]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

What kind of rule changes of necessity are you thinking of?

That's what the conclave would determine.

Basicly, go trough all the rules and re-evaluate them (on their effectivness in achieving what they were supposed to do), see if alternatives can be found, etc...
So that would include things like the frequency of letting mages out of the tower, visits, kids, etc..

I meant, what would you, as a gamer, be willing to accept, give up, or change to the Circle system, if you had the option?

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

Oversight of templars by mages for those templars who are in the Circle.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

Oversight of templars by mages for those templars who are in the Circle.

That is where it gets tricky. I do not think the Templars would necessarily allow that, no matter what other concessions are. It needs to be a mix of the two, and in such a way as to discourage one group from abusing power over the other.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

Oversight of templars by mages for those templars who are in the Circle.

That is where it gets tricky. I do not think the Templars would necessarily allow that, no matter what other concessions are. It needs to be a mix of the two, and in such a way as to discourage one group from abusing power over the other.

The Seekers could admit mages.

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

Oversight of templars by mages for those templars who are in the Circle.

That is where it gets tricky. I do not think the Templars would necessarily allow that, no matter what other concessions are. It needs to be a mix of the two, and in such a way as to discourage one group from abusing power over the other.

That wasn't a request. It is, in fact, tremendous leniency on my part for not trying to grind the entire Order into dust.

[Hellion Rex]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

Oversight of templars by mages for those templars who are in the Circle.

That is where it gets tricky. I do not think the Templars would necessarily allow that, no matter what other concessions are. It needs to be a mix of the two, and in such a way as to discourage one group from abusing power over the other.

The Seekers could admit mages.

Then we would still have mages or templars crying foul if something goes wrong, and we might be back to square one. I really hope the Inquisition can do something to help settle this.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Yes back on topic! Ok, if it came down to it, and new Circle systems were to made and improved, what is one thing that both sides could agree upon that needs to be fixed?

Tighter oversight on Templars.
A conclave on other changes and re-evaluation of efectinvess and necessity of various rules.

Oversight of templars by mages for those templars who are in the Circle.

That is where it gets tricky. I do not think the Templars would necessarily allow that, no matter what other concessions are. It needs to be a mix of the two, and in such a way as to discourage one group from abusing power over the other.

That wasn't a request. It is, in fact, tremendous leniency on my part for not trying to grind the entire Order into dust.

But I do not think it will be easy as you think to defeat them. In fact, if you do defeat them, you are bound to give life to the fear that the people already have towards mages. Sure, Lambert's group can get offed for all I care, but I still think we should not advocate the culling of the ones still loyal to Chantry, and I guarantee you that there are some. To get the world back in order will take BOTH mages and templars. And we can hardly end that Veil tear if we only put our energy into destroying the other group.

[Icy Magebane]

I still say that the best solution is to add mages to the Templars. Call them by whatever name you want, but this "us" vs. "them" mentality needs to go. I'm sure there are many mages who favor peace and order, so why can't they work alongside non-mages with the current Templar abilities and training to oversee the Circles? If those good-intentioned mages somehow wind up getting possessed (although I see that as unlikely), at least they'd already be in close proximity to people who could put them down quickly...

[Hellion Rex]

Icy Magebane wrote...

I still say that the best solution is to add mages to the Templars. Call them by whatever name you want, but this "us" vs. "them" mentality needs to go. I'm sure there are many mages who favor peace and order, so why can't they work alongside non-mages with the current Templar abilities and training to oversee the Circles? If those good-intentioned mages somehow wind up getting possessed (although I see that as unlikely), at least they'd already be in close proximity to people who could put them down quickly...

That is a very good point. Perhaps we could have the two groups work together under the umbrella of the Inquisition?