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[MisterJB]

Completely understandable. At least, Ander's manifesto served its purposes.
Other uses include kindling the fire, removing stains and picking up after your mabari.

[Medhia Nox]

@MisterJB: Sadly, there's things that already do those job better than his manifesto. Poor Anders... a useless a-hole wherever he goes.

[MisterJB]

He did help uncover Orsino's plan to train the Circle's population in blood magic and demon summoning and conquer the city.
Granted, the Chantry could have been saved if Elthina had just paid attention to Meredith's warnings in the first place.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 novembre 2013 - 09:08 .

[Reaverwind]

MisterJB wrote...

Anders should get an award for the most pointless manifesto ever.
"The opression of mages stems from the fears of men and not the will of the Maker."

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. And the measures employed stems from the need for security and not to please some god.
The existence; or not; of the Maker is entirely irrelevant.

Quite ironic timing on writing that manifesto, considering all the mages in Kirkwall going out of their way to justify those fears.

[MisterJB]

"The opression of mages steams from the fears of men and not the will of the Maker. Therefore, the fears of men must be abated if there is to be an end to opression. This is why I will now partake in an act of magical terrorism."

Maker damn it, Anders.

[Reaverwind]

MisterJB wrote...

"The opression of mages steams from the fears of men and not the will of the Maker. Therefore, the fears of men must be abated if there is to be an end to opression. This is why I will now partake in an act of magical terrorism."

Maker damn it, Anders.

Is there a Moron of the Decade Award in Thedas?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yes. It's shaped like an exploding Chantry.

[IanPolaris]

Regarding Nuclear Power Plants, they won't turn a neighborhood into a mushroom cloud. I can assure you that in my professional capacity as a physicist (and a particle physicist at that). The way a nuclear explosion (fission) happens is when you form a super-critical mass of fisionable material. There are a lot of factors that go into it including a high degree of purity of the fisionable material, a geometry absolutely favorable for losing as few free neutrons as possible, and the configuration has to hold together long enough for the chain reaction to propogate though most of the supercritical mass.

In the case of nuclear reactors, the fuel rods have very low percentages of actual fissionable materials, and the geometry is such that even if the rods over-head and the reaction goes 'critical', it won't propogate fast enough and the neutrons won't be held in long enough to generate a sudden nuclear explosion.

In conventional explosives, it's the difference between loose gunpowder (a highly flamable and dangerous propellent) and gunpowder packed into a confined area like a grenade where the gasses have no place to go (and thus becomes an explosive).

Sorry to go off-topic, but there's more to nuclear power safety than the uneducated fear it will suffer a nuclear explosion. The real danger is what's sometimes called a "china syndrome" (which is largely what happened in Chernobyl) and that really only happens if you ignore or bypass a ridiculous number of safety features both mandatory and inherent.

-Polaris

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
No, but education might help you understand that not every nuclear plant is a potential nuclear bomb.

Actually it is.
Well, not a nuclear bomb, but a potential meltdown site, which isn't much better.
Just ask the rusians at Chernobyl

Chernobyl only came about because of a huge, frankly ridiculous number of either missed or flat-out ignored safety issues. That is not a typical result for a nuclear power plant (Three Mile Island, for instance, released effectively no radiation).

And mages don't come with safety measures, nor are tehy buildings/devices controlled by a comitte, which makes the entire comparison (again) pointless

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
No, but education might help you understand that not every nuclear plant is a potential nuclear bomb.

Actually it is.
Well, not a nuclear bomb, but a potential meltdown site, which isn't much better.
Just ask the rusians at Chernobyl

Chernobyl only came about because of a huge, frankly ridiculous number of either missed or flat-out ignored safety issues. That is not a typical result for a nuclear power plant (Three Mile Island, for instance, released effectively no radiation).

And mages don't come with safety measures, nor are tehy buildings/devices controlled by a comitte, which makes the entire comparison (again) pointless

1000 years of magical stagnation allowed no safety measures to be created. Nor does the chantry benefit if the mages where ever to become immune to possesion. the secular power would want the mages under their control which means that templar order would be disbanded and the lyrium trade would fall
into the hands of the goverment.

So its better to simply kill all templars and advance magical research to prevent future abominations. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And mages don't come with safety measures, nor are tehy buildings/devices controlled by a comitte, which makes the entire comparison (again) pointless

1000 years of magical stagnation allowed no safety measures to be created. Nor does the chantry benefit if the mages where ever to become immune to possesion. the secular power would want the mages under their control which means that templar order would be disbanded and the lyrium trade would fall into the hands of the goverment.

So its better to simply kill all templars and advance magical research to prevent future abominations. 

Bollocks.
You say as if you have some knowledge of a safety measure that was surpressed.
Unless you have some proof, all you have are baseless accusations and theories.
And I say baseless because magical research is not really supressed in TheDas - Tevinter also uses the Harrowing, and if anyone should know of better methods it would be then.
As far as we know there IS no foolproof safety measure.

So it is better to NOT make crazy conspiracy theories.

[Xilizhra]

Tevinter may use the Harrowing, but if they use the exact same version the Andrastian mages use on, say, children of important magisters and the like, I'd be very surprised. Since Malcolm Hawke, alone, came up with a nonlethal variant for his own children.

You say as if you have some knowledge of a safety measure that was surpressed.

There are certainly those that aren't used, such as blood testing for abominations and the Litany of Adralla to stop possessions as they're happening.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

1000 years of magical stagnation allowed no safety measures to be created. Nor does the chantry benefit if the mages where ever to become immune to possesion. the secular power would want the mages under their control which means that templar order would be disbanded and the lyrium trade would fall
into the hands of the goverment.

So its better to simply kill all templars and advance magical research to prevent future abominations. 

Assuming of course that there even is a prevention measure possible. Considering that several thousand years of magical research has failed to produce such a thing, chances are that it is simply impossible.

Xilizhra wrote...
Tevinter may use the Harrowing, but if they use the exact same version the Andrastian mages use on, say, children of important magisters and the like, I'd be very surprised. Since Malcolm Hawke, alone, came up with a nonlethal variant for his own children.

Link please to where this is confirmed.

[Xilizhra]

Link please to where this is confirmed.

Hawke: "I have braved the Fade before."

Either that, or our trained Circle mage Malcolm simply decided that the Harrowing was unnecessary for his own children.

Assuming of course that there even is a prevention measure possible. Considering that several thousand years of magical research has failed to produce such a thing, chances are that it is simply impossible.

There is a prevention measure: the Litany of Adralla. It's frequently impractical because it requires another mage to be right there at the moment of possession to read it, but it's still there.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Tevinter may use the Harrowing, but if they use the exact same version the Andrastian mages use on, say, children of important magisters and the like, I'd be very surprised. Since Malcolm Hawke, alone, came up with a nonlethal variant for his own children.

who said it was non-lethal or different or as effective?

There are certainly those that aren't used, such as blood testing for abominations and the Litany of Adralla to stop possessions as they're happening.

1 is bollocks and 2 works on mind-control, not possesion.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Link please to where this is confirmed.

Hawke: "I have braved the Fade before."

Either that, or our trained Circle mage Malcolm simply decided that the Harrowing was unnecessary for his own children.

How in the sweet name of mother earth do you draw that conclusion from this line????
NOTHING in that line indicates how Malcolm trained his children. NOTHING. How the **** can you headcanon so bad, and then ****ing try to pass it on as established lore??
Simply put, we have nothing that indicates how Malcolm trained his children. All we know is that he did. And YOU are filling this forum with misinformation. Stop it.

Xilizhra wrote...

Assuming of course that there even is a prevention measure possible. Considering that several thousand years of magical research has failed to produce such a thing, chances are that it is simply impossible.

There is a prevention measure: the Litany of Adralla. It's frequently impractical because it requires another mage to be right there at the moment of possession to read it, but it's still there.

The Litany of Adralla prevents Blood Magic and have an adverse effect on demons. It does not prevent or cure Abominations. The fact that you gameplaywise can use it to prevent mages from turning, is just that. Gameplay. Nothing in established lore indicates that the Litany can be used in such a way otherwise.
And still, if that is all they have come up with in several thousand years, then there are still good grounds to say, that it is simply impossible.

[Xilizhra]

who said it was non-lethal or different or as effective?

Bethany's codex entry mentions a "long-delayed Harrowing," implying that whatever event was used was not the Harrowing.

1 is bollocks and 2 works on mind-control, not possesion.

1 is something you simply don't like, and 2 is explicitly used to block possession as its sole in-game use.

How in the sweet name of mother earth do you draw that conclusion from this line????
NOTHING in that line indicates how Malcolm trained his children. NOTHING. How the **** can you headcanon so bad, and then ****ing try to pass it on as established lore??
Simply put, we have nothing that indicates how Malcolm trained his children. All we know is that he did. And YOU are filling this forum with misinformation. Stop it.

Well, clearly Hawke didn't do this in-game, so either she hopped in completely randomly at some point after Malcolm died, or it was something Malcolm set up. The implication seems clear.

The Litany of Adralla prevents Blood Magic and have an adverse effect on demons. It does not prevent or cure Abominations. The fact that you gameplaywise can use it to prevent mages from turning, is just that. Gameplay. Nothing in established lore indicates that the Litany can be used in such a way otherwise.

You're reaching like hell with claims of gameplay/story segregation, especially since possession can be considered a form of mind control.

And still, if that is all they have come up with in several thousand years, then there are still good grounds to say, that it is simply impossible.

Not with the Chantry blocking research into the topic.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

How in the sweet name of mother earth do you draw that conclusion from this line????
NOTHING in that line indicates how Malcolm trained his children. NOTHING. How the **** can you headcanon so bad, and then ****ing try to pass it on as established lore??
Simply put, we have nothing that indicates how Malcolm trained his children. All we know is that he did. And YOU are filling this forum with misinformation. Stop it.

Well, clearly Hawke didn't do this in-game, so either she hopped in completely randomly at some point after Malcolm died, or it was something Malcolm set up. The implication seems clear.

THe ONLY implication that this sentence makes, is that Hawke has braved the Fade before. If anyhting this can be used to indicate that Malcolm DID make Hawke go through the Harrowing. You are blatantly filling the foum with misinformation and half-cooked lies. Stop it.

Xilizhra wrote...

The Litany of Adralla prevents Blood Magic and have an adverse effect on demons. It does not prevent or cure Abominations. The fact that you gameplaywise can use it to prevent mages from turning, is just that. Gameplay. Nothing in established lore indicates that the Litany can be used in such a way otherwise.

You're reaching like hell with claims of gameplay/story segregation, especially since possession can be considered a form of mind control.

No. No possession cannot be considered a form of Mind-Control. Possession is the literal ensarment and/or destruction of your very soul. Mind-Control is not even close to this.
And since the game only ever establishes the Litany's power to dispel Blood Magic, and Asunder further shows that it can hurt and/or banish a demon. I'd say the gameplay is in clear segregation of the lore in this case. And either way, the Litany is a highly ineffective tool to do the job that is being discussed.

Xilizhra wrote...

And still, if that is all they have come up with in several thousand years, then there are still good grounds to say, that it is simply impossible.

Not with the Chantry blocking research into the topic.

Yes. Let us blame the Chantry for blocking magical research that took place THOUSANDS of years before it was even established. That seems wise. That is not at all your bull**** bias talking again. Nuh-uh.
<_<

[Xilizhra]

THe ONLY implication that this sentence makes, is that Hawke has braved the Fade before. If anyhting this can be used to indicate that Malcolm DID make Hawke go through the Harrowing. You are blatantly filling the foum with misinformation and half-cooked lies. Stop it.

Well, I suppose it's possible that Malcolm was willing to potentially murder his children, I just find it unlikely. Also, you're filling the forum with bitter malevolence, so begone.

And since the game only ever establishes the Litany's power to dispel Blood Magic, and Asunder further shows that it can hurt and/or banish a demon. I'd say the gameplay is in clear segregation of the lore in this case. And either way, the Litany is a highly ineffective tool to do the job that is being discussed.

Banishing a demon, as in banishing the one trying to take possession of a mage?

Yes. Let us blame the Chantry for blocking magical research that took place THOUSANDS of years before it was even established. That seems wise. That is not at all your bull**** bias talking again. Nuh-uh.

Oh, I'm sure there's plenty of research done by Tevinter that the Chantry simply doesn't let the Circle use.

[TK514]

The Codex Entry for the Litany.

http://dragonage.wik...tany_of_Adralla

Mind control, not possession. It's specifically anti-Blood Magic mind control, not anti-Demon, though Adralla did study demons as well. It is used in-game to prevent Uldred from mind controlling the mages to accept possession.

[Xilizhra]

Mind control, not possession. It's specifically anti-Blood Magic mind control, not anti-Demon, though Adralla did study demons as well. It is used in-game to prevent Uldred from mind controlling the mages to accept possession.

Except he wasn't using blood magic, but electrical torture. Probably because, as seen in Enemies Among Us with a mage Hawke and Idunna, mages can throw off mind control.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

THe ONLY implication that this sentence makes, is that Hawke has braved the Fade before. If anyhting this can be used to indicate that Malcolm DID make Hawke go through the Harrowing. You are blatantly filling the foum with misinformation and half-cooked lies. Stop it.

Well, I suppose it's possible that Malcolm was willing to potentially murder his children, I just find it unlikely. Also, you're filling the forum with bitter malevolence, so begone.

Not any more so than a parent who buys their child a driver's license is willing to potentially "murder" their child. The Harrowing would simply be the only test Malcolm knew of that would show the capabilities of his son/daughter. If he was confident in his trainning of the child, then he would be confident in the survival of the child.
And the only resentment I harbor is to fools like you, deliberately spreading misinformation.

Xilizhra wrote...

And since the game only ever establishes the Litany's power to dispel Blood Magic, and Asunder further shows that it can hurt and/or banish a demon. I'd say the gameplay is in clear segregation of the lore in this case. And either way, the Litany is a highly ineffective tool to do the job that is being discussed.

Banishing a demon, as in banishing the one trying to take possession of a mage?

A demon is not even on the ohysical plane when they attempt to possess a mage. So no. Not like that at all.

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes. Let us blame the Chantry for blocking magical research that took place THOUSANDS of years before it was even established. That seems wise. That is not at all your bull**** bias talking again. Nuh-uh.

Oh, I'm sure there's plenty of research done by Tevinter that the Chantry simply doesn't let the Circle use.

Im sure you are.....

[Xilizhra]

Not any more so than a parent who buys their child a driver's license is willing to potentially "murder" their child. The Harrowing would simply be the only test Malcolm knew of that would show the capabilities of his son/daughter. If he was confident in his trainning of the child, then he would be confident in the survival of the child.

I suspect he would also not let a demon just eat them if they failed.

A demon is not even on the ohysical plane when they attempt to possess a mage. So no. Not like that at all.

Then ask Gaider, if you believe that the game is lying to you.

[Medhia Nox]

Ugh, are we using plot armor characters to justify our arguments again?

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 novembre 2013 - 05:17 .

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Ugh, are we use plot armor characters to justify are arguments again?

Plot armor does not exist in-universe and is an utterly worthless argument for justifying the survival of characters.