4643 réponses à ce sujet

[HiroVoid]

What about the plot armor of the Warden and Alistair not using lyrium in DA:O to use templar abilities?

[Xilizhra]

HiroVoid wrote...

What about the plot armor of the Warden and Alistair not using lyrium in DA:O to use templar abilities?

Retcon explained by use of lyrium potions.

[HiroVoid]

What about the plot armor of being able to use lyrium veins that haven't been processed in the Deep Roads of Orzammar that usually harm the user?

[Xilizhra]

HiroVoid wrote...

What about the plot armor of being able to use lyrium veins that haven't been processed in the Deep Roads of Orzammar that usually harm the user?

You don't have to grind it up and snort it, just get close to it and do something unspecified. Huge amounts of lyrium also probably gave the Urn of Sacred Ashes their powers.

[TK514]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mind control, not possession. It's specifically anti-Blood Magic mind control, not anti-Demon, though Adralla did study demons as well. It is used in-game to prevent Uldred from mind controlling the mages to accept possession.

Except he wasn't using blood magic, but electrical torture. Probably because, as seen in Enemies Among Us with a mage Hawke and Idunna, mages can throw off mind control.

Doesn't matter what happened in DA 2 with well rested and healthy mages.  Mages that have been tortured for days are apparently succeptible.  The Codex is unambiguous about what the Litany does, it's not open to interpretation.  It prevents blood magic mind control, and only before or while the spell is being cast.  If the subject is already under the control, the Litany has no effect.

[Xilizhra]

TK514 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mind control, not possession. It's specifically anti-Blood Magic mind control, not anti-Demon, though Adralla did study demons as well. It is used in-game to prevent Uldred from mind controlling the mages to accept possession.

Except he wasn't using blood magic, but electrical torture. Probably because, as seen in Enemies Among Us with a mage Hawke and Idunna, mages can throw off mind control.

Doesn't matter what happened in DA 2 with well rested and healthy mages.  Mages that have been tortured for days are apparently succeptible.  The Codex is unambiguous about what the Litany does, it's not open to interpretation.  It prevents blood magic mind control, and only before or while the spell is being cast.  If the subject is already under the control, the Litany has no effect.

Asunder gives the Litany a new capability not mentioned in the codex, as Sahlertz kindly brought up.

[HiroVoid]

Xilizhra wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

What about the plot armor of being able to use lyrium veins that haven't been processed in the Deep Roads of Orzammar that usually harm the user?

You don't have to grind it up and snort it, just get close to it and do something unspecified. Huge amounts of lyrium also probably gave the Urn of Sacred Ashes their powers.

Pfft.  Gaider's actually already confirmed the reason for this.  It's alien lyrium.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not any more so than a parent who buys their child a driver's license is willing to potentially "murder" their child. The Harrowing would simply be the only test Malcolm knew of that would show the capabilities of his son/daughter. If he was confident in his trainning of the child, then he would be confident in the survival of the child.

I suspect he would also not let a demon just eat them if they failed.

No, he probably wouldn't be happy about it. Why would he be? Doesn't change the fact that he might actually see the necessity of the Harrowing.

Xilizhra wrote...

A demon is not even on the ohysical plane when they attempt to possess a mage. So no. Not like that at all.

Then ask Gaider, if you believe that the game is lying to you.

I don't think the game is lying at all. I think you lack the brain function to fathom it though. The game was using gameplay to create an interresting encounter, with some new mechanics.

The Litany has clear defined capabilities, and preventing possession is NOT one of the established ones.

[Xilizhra]

No, he probably wouldn't be happy about it. Why would he be? Doesn't change the fact that he might actually see the necessity of the Harrowing.

I mean that he'd intervene if it looked like they'd fail.

I don't think the game is lying at all. I think you lack the brain function to fathom it though. The game was using gameplay to create an interresting encounter, with some new mechanics.

Completely pointlessly if it was unrelated to lore, when the mechanic consists solely of "click this button when a prompt comes up."

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

No, he probably wouldn't be happy about it. Why would he be? Doesn't change the fact that he might actually see the necessity of the Harrowing.

I mean that he'd intervene if it looked like they'd fail.

And how would he know? He isn't there to observe. He would just have to trust in his trainning of Hawke and in Hawke himself.

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think the game is lying at all. I think you lack the brain function to fathom it though. The game was using gameplay to create an interresting encounter, with some new mechanics.

Completely pointlessly if it was unrelated to lore, when the mechanic consists solely of "click this button when a prompt comes up."

Except the entire game is made up of gameplay/lore segregation. For instance the mages comming into contact with raw lyrium and not dying instantly. Or the fact that a man can bacl a hit from a several tonnes heavy demon or dragon and come out unscathed. Gameplay constantly supercedes lore, if it makes for an interresting encounter.

[Xilizhra]

And how would he know? He isn't there to observe. He would just have to trust in his trainning of Hawke and in Hawke himself.

He'd go into the Fade at the same time.

Except the entire game is made up of gameplay/lore segregation. For instance the mages comming into contact with raw lyrium and not dying instantly. Or the fact that a man can bacl a hit from a several tonnes heavy demon or dragon and come out unscathed. Gameplay constantly supercedes lore, if it makes for an interresting encounter.

Hit points are a nigh-universal abstraction, and nothing's saying that you touch any raw lyrium.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

And how would he know? He isn't there to observe. He would just have to trust in his trainning of Hawke and in Hawke himself.

He'd go into the Fade at the same time.

Would he now? I guess asking you to prove your statement is useless, since you seem intent on spreading misinformation wherever you go.... But let us just rack this up to more of your useless headcanon and move on.

Xilizhra wrote...

Except the entire game is made up of gameplay/lore segregation. For instance the mages comming into contact with raw lyrium and not dying instantly. Or the fact that a man can bacl a hit from a several tonnes heavy demon or dragon and come out unscathed. Gameplay constantly supercedes lore, if it makes for an interresting encounter.

Hit points are a nigh-universal abstraction, and nothing's saying that you touch any raw lyrium.

The very fact that the mage can be near raw lyrium without extreme discomfort should be enough proof of gameplay/lore segregation. But of course, it would also prove you wrong. So the gameplay can't possibly be right, now can it?

[Xilizhra]

Would he now? I guess asking you to prove your statement is useless, since you seem intent on spreading misinformation wherever you go.... But let us just rack this up to more of your useless headcanon and move on.

Why would he not?

The very fact that the mage can be near raw lyrium without extreme discomfort should be enough proof of gameplay/lore segregation. But of course, it would also prove you wrong. So the gameplay can't possibly be right, now can it?

A. How do you know there isn't? And B. source on the presence of raw lyrium causing great discomfort?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Would he now? I guess asking you to prove your statement is useless, since you seem intent on spreading misinformation wherever you go.... But let us just rack this up to more of your useless headcanon and move on.

Why would he not?

Because it would defeat the entire purpose of the test.

Xilizhra wrote...

The very fact that the mage can be near raw lyrium without extreme discomfort should be enough proof of gameplay/lore segregation. But of course, it would also prove you wrong. So the gameplay can't possibly be right, now can it?

A. How do you know there isn't? And B. source on the presence of raw lyrium causing great discomfort?

A: they show no sign of discomfort. B: The very contact with raw lyrium is deadly, and they are standing in its fumes. If that alone wouldn't kill them, then it would cause discomfort. Unless we shall chalk it up as something like "oh but only the magical touch of lyrium is deadly to mages".

[Xilizhra]

Because it would defeat the entire purpose of the test.

No it wouldn't. If you're in danger of failing, you can retreat and grow stronger.

A: they show no sign of discomfort.

I don't think they're constantly running everywhere they go either, but that part itself could be the segregation.

B: The very contact with raw lyrium is deadly, and they are standing in its fumes. If that alone wouldn't kill them, then it would cause discomfort. Unless we shall chalk it up as something like "oh but only the magical touch of lyrium is deadly to mages".

Magic's weird. It may well be that.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Because it would defeat the entire purpose of the test.

No it wouldn't. If you're in danger of failing, you can retreat and grow stronger.

That is not how demons work...

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Because it would defeat the entire purpose of the test.

No it wouldn't. If you're in danger of failing, you can retreat and grow stronger.

That is not how demons work...

Inexperienced mage menaced by weakish demon. Stronger mage drives off demon. Bingo.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Because it would defeat the entire purpose of the test.

No it wouldn't. If you're in danger of failing, you can retreat and grow stronger.

That is not how demons work...

Inexperienced mage menaced by weakish demon. Stronger mage drives off demon. Bingo.

And once this demon has gotten the scent of this young and obviously incompetent mage ripe for the picking, it would then wait around exactly why? Yeah... Demons don't work like that...

[Shadow Fox]

HiroVoid wrote...

What about the plot armor of being able to use lyrium veins that haven't been processed in the Deep Roads of Orzammar that usually harm the user?

Or how Leliana,Morrigan,Sten,Oghren,Wynne and Zevran are taint immune in Origins and everyone save the sibling is in 2.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:35 .

[Xilizhra]

And once this demon has gotten the scent of this young and obviously incompetent mage ripe for the picking, it would then wait around exactly why? Yeah... Demons don't work like that...

Replace "drives off" with "blown away" if you like. And said weaker mage wouldn't return to the Fade until they'd grown stronger.

Or how Leliana,Morrigan,Oghren,Wynne and Zevran are taint immune in Origins and everyone save the sibling is in 2.

I don't know, how come we don't have every single soldier who meets the darkspawn in combat die of the taint?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:17 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

And once this demon has gotten the scent of this young and obviously incompetent mage ripe for the picking, it would then wait around exactly why? Yeah... Demons don't work like that...

Replace "drives off" with "blown away" if you like. And said weaker mage wouldn't return to the Fade until they'd grown stronger.

Yes they would. They would every night.

Or how Leliana,Morrigan,Oghren,Wynne and Zevran are taint immune in Origins and everyone save the sibling is in 2.

I don't know, how come we don't have every single soldier who meets the darkspawn in combat die of the taint?

Getting darkspawn blood on you is thus clearly not a 100% sentence of death. On the other hand, it's made clear by the devs that the companions never getting tainted isn't the way it's supposed to work in setting.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:28 .

[Xilizhra]

Yes they would. They would every night.

Then kill the demon in question. Reforming will take time, if they can even do so. It's not like the desire demon who possessed Connor comes back unless you let it.

Getting darkspawn blood on you is thus clearly not a 100% sentence of death. On the other hand, it's made clear by the devs that the companions never getting tainted isn't the way it's supposed to work in setting.

Regardless, there will be reasons why no one in DAO was ever tainted. Personally, I think that bringing Zevran into protracted combat with darkspawn, given his relatively revealing armor and close-combat style, is unwise. The others are either ranged attackers or wear heavy and fully concealing armor, so they should be safe.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes they would. They would every night.

Then kill the demon in question. Reforming will take time, if they can even do so. It's not like the desire demon who possessed Connor comes back unless you let it.

That one demon isn't the only problem, though. The exact demon who knows that mage to be weak is no longer a threat, what about literally every other demon of equal or greater strength or cunning?

Getting darkspawn blood on you is thus clearly not a 100% sentence of death. On the other hand, it's made clear by the devs that the companions never getting tainted isn't the way it's supposed to work in setting.

Regardless, there will be reasons why no one in DAO was ever tainted. Personally, I think that bringing Zevran into protracted combat with darkspawn, given his relatively revealing armor and close-combat style, is unwise. The others are either ranged attackers or wear heavy and fully concealing armor, so they should be safe.

Yes. It's called player agency. Gaider has already explicity stated that's why.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think he said the in universe reason is luck.

[Xilizhra]

That one demon isn't the only problem, though. The exact demon who knows that mage to be weak is no longer a threat, what about literally every other demon of equal or greater strength or cunning?

They won't suddenly be more threatening than they were the previous night. The weaker mage doesn't need to be brought physically into the Fade again until they're stronger.

Yes. It's called player agency. Gaider has already explicity stated that's why.

Noted, but it explains nothing in-universe.

I think he said the in universe reason is luck.

There you have it. Luck happens.