4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

That one demon isn't the only problem, though. The exact demon who knows that mage to be weak is no longer a threat, what about literally every other demon of equal or greater strength or cunning?

They won't suddenly be more threatening than they were the previous night. The weaker mage doesn't need to be brought physically into the Fade again until they're stronger.

Except that the point of the Harrowing is to determine how threatening the demons are, relative to the mage being tested. A mage who failed his Harrowing has proven that those demons are dangerous enough to threaten them. The fact that the demons don't become any more threatening due to this (though I'll note that the damage to the mage's morale will be counterproductive) doesn't really make the apprentice any better off.

Yes. It's called player agency. Gaider has already explicity stated that's why.

Noted, but it explains nothing in-universe.

I think he said the in universe reason is luck.

There you have it. Luck happens.

Fine. The point is that that luck happens due to the player characters and companions being respectively player characters and companions. To count on anyone who isn't one of those to be so lucky isn't safe.

[Xilizhra]

Except that the point of the Harrowing is to determine how threatening the demons are, relative to the mage being tested. A mage who failed his Harrowing has proven that those demons are dangerous enough to threaten them. The fact that the demons don't become any more threatening due to this (though I'll note that the damage to the mage's morale will be counterproductive) doesn't really make the apprentice any better off.

Then... they train to grow stronger?

[Br3admax]

The demon doesn't just go away, so how would they?

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

The demon doesn't just go away, so how would they?

That's why you kill the demon.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


So its better to simply kill all templars and advance magical research to prevent future abominations.  

Yes. The problem however here in this debate is once again the idiotic and stupid mage vs templar debate. I dont give a **** about the mage vs templar conflict. You percieve this entire thing through the modern lens. But you need to view it through a lens where humans are an endangerd species that need to fend of threats that are superhuman.

How are the templar going to fight this demonic invasion? sentient darkspawn? dragon flights? super mages like flemeth? the answer is: they cannot, they lack the knowledge and the skill to do so.

So your entire reason so support the templars is a lie and a sham. the templars cannot defend the mundanes, not even from the circle mages, and it would do thedas good if these fakes and liars where permantly removed. And if you dont then its game over or the tevinters or any other more sensible group will take over.

Will many people die? oh yes. But thats better then being extinct.

[DKJaigen]

The entire harrowing system is stupid. Demons attack different aspects of the psyche. that means a weak willed mage can fend of a pride demon because he has not pride while a strong willed mage may fall prey to a weak rage demon because he was pissed of.

[Hellion Rex]

DKJaigen wrote...

The entire harrowing system is stupid. Demons attack different aspects of the psyche. that means a weak willed mage can fend of a pride demon because he has not pride while a strong willed mage may fall prey to a weak rage demon because he was pissed of.

That is a good point. But just because someone isn't prideful/weak willed, doesn't mean a pride demon cannot find a way to easily manipulate that person. Also, if someone is weak willed, that might make it even easier for a pride demon, one of the strongest in the hierarchy, to walk all over that person psychically.

[billy the squid]

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

[Hellion Rex]

billy the squid wrote...

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

You would have one hell of a fight on your hands. Plus not to mention the Veil tears you are bound to open due to conflict. In fact, if you were to try to do something like this, you might rip open an even bigger breach than the massive one we are faced with now. Plus while you wait to "start again", you can bet the Qunari will steamroll over Thedas. And not to mention no new Grey Wardens to fight the Blight either.

Modifié par eluvianix, 14 novembre 2013 - 12:57 .

[HiroVoid]

I'm kinda unsure about the whole 'veil tear' thing. I mean, I don't remember hearing about veil tears popping up every time there's a war or during the war between Ferelden and Orlais.

[Seboist]

billy the squid wrote...

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

That sounds like a good plan to me.

[Wulfram]

You'd need to kill all their relatives if you wanted it to be "final".  And if you didn't, then you'd be dooming the world to constant conflict - if the mages who are born into the world are only given the choices of "Fight or die", then they'll fight.

[billy the squid]

eluvianix wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

You would have one hell of a fight on your hands. Plus not to mention the Veil tears you are bound to open due to conflict. Plus while you wait to "start again", you can bet the Qunari will steamroll over Thedas. And not to mention no new Grey Wardens to fight the Blight either.

We'll call it social re orientation and get them all to come to a meeting. The Qunari are fine, they're fighting the Tevinter Imperium, and unless the next blight pops up in a generation, which it won't, there will be enough mages about.

The Mages can also be used as a fuel source for the pesants of Thedas in the Winter, elements of co operative local populations will be most beneficial in evacuation of mages.

[Hellion Rex]

HiroVoid wrote...

I'm kinda unsure about the whole 'veil tear' thing. I mean, I don't remember hearing about veil tears popping up every time there's a war or during the war between Ferelden and Orlais.

Great times of bloodshed. This would be different than the Fereldan and Orlais due to him trying to exterminate the mages, which would lead to HEAVY magic use, therefore much bigger Veil tears.

[Xilizhra]

Wulfram wrote...

You'd need to kill all their relatives if you wanted it to be "final".  And if you didn't, then you'd be dooming the world to constant conflict - if the mages who are born into the world are only given the choices of "Fight or die", then they'll fight.

What was that Cullen said? If one in ten mages becomes a blood mage, they could destroy the world? It'd seem like a good time to test that.

[Hellion Rex]

Wulfram wrote...

You'd need to kill all their relatives if you wanted it to be "final".  And if you didn't, then you'd be dooming the world to constant conflict - if the mages who are born into the world are only given the choices of "Fight or die", then they'll fight.

And that is a far worse world than what we have right now.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

You'd need to kill all their relatives if you wanted it to be "final".  And if you didn't, then you'd be dooming the world to constant conflict - if the mages who are born into the world are only given the choices of "Fight or die", then they'll fight.

What was that Cullen said? If one in ten mages becomes a blood mage, they could destroy the world? It'd seem like a good time to test that.

If they want blood magic so bad, we will show them blood magic the likes of which they have never seen.

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

You'd need to kill all their relatives if you wanted it to be "final".  And if you didn't, then you'd be dooming the world to constant conflict - if the mages who are born into the world are only given the choices of "Fight or die", then they'll fight.

What was that Cullen said? If one in ten mages becomes a blood mage, they could destroy the world? It'd seem like a good time to test that.

If they want blood magic so bad, we will show them blood magic the likes of which they have never seen.

Step one: improve the Harvester spell so that you can become the likes of the Harvester from Golems of Amgarrak. Orsino was a pale shadow by comparison.

[Shadow Fox]

billy the squid wrote...

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

Dude stop baiting.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

You'd need to kill all their relatives if you wanted it to be "final".  And if you didn't, then you'd be dooming the world to constant conflict - if the mages who are born into the world are only given the choices of "Fight or die", then they'll fight.

What was that Cullen said? If one in ten mages becomes a blood mage, they could destroy the world? It'd seem like a good time to test that.

If they want blood magic so bad, we will show them blood magic the likes of which they have never seen.

Step one: improve the Harvester spell so that you can become the likes of the Harvester from Golems of Amgarrak. Orsino was a pale shadow by comparison.

Sounds like a plan. Step two....summon one of those legendary Greater Pride Demons? Or should we just tear the Veil for kicks?

Modifié par eluvianix, 14 novembre 2013 - 01:06 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

You would have one hell of a fight on your hands. Plus not to mention the Veil tears you are bound to open due to conflict. In fact, if you were to try to do something like this, you might rip open an even bigger breach than the massive one we are faced with now. Plus while you wait to "start again", you can bet the Qunari will steamroll over Thedas. And not to mention no new Grey Wardens to fight the Blight either.

As i that issues are easy to solve.
1.Mages are already on lost position even if we put just templars to do that mages are hated and walking abomnations are bad for business so i doubt that would be so hard to convince otherts to put down mages when no one is stupid enough to support mages even naive or ploting divine will ****** on them if we gather enough peoples in that.
2.Few mages can solve that problem others can die
3.Qunari are possible to defeat because otherwise there is no another dragon age and mages aren't even useful unless they are blood mages or abomnations they lost ther most fights so they aren't needed.
4.see point 2 in warden case.

[Xilizhra]

Sounds like a plan. Step two....summon one of the legendary Greater Pride Demons?

Assuming they're not apocryphal, perhaps. But we should probably learn more about despair demons.

[Hellion Rex]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Haven't we got to a Final Solution to deal with the Mage Question yet? The best option is clearly to be Alexandrian and solve the issue with a single stroke. Annulment and tranquilization of the mage population, wipe the slate clean and start again. Clean and efficient.

Dude stop baiting.

No, I welcome the baiting.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sounds like a plan. Step two....summon one of the legendary Greater Pride Demons?

Assuming they're not apocryphal, perhaps. But we should probably learn more about despair demons.

Oh, I like the way you think Xil. That is one demon that I am very interested in learning about.

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Sounds like a plan. Step two....summon one of the legendary Greater Pride Demons?

Assuming they're not apocryphal, perhaps. But we should probably learn more about despair demons.

Oh, I like the way you think Xil. That is one demon that I am very interested in learning about.

Whatever ritual is done there... it should probably be done in Par Vollen; if they really are that dangerous, they should be useful in neutralizing the qunari, which will be necessary in order to free up Tevinter for this fight.