4643 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

Well he did want hang up his staff and live the life of a simple farmer. And he didn't want any of children to be mages. Don't know if that was because of the Chantry's teaching or not, tho.

[Hazegurl]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...
Even Malcolm wished for his children not to bear magic, even though Carver did not wield magic he still felt like he could have a life of his own due to magic running in his family. Plus what sort parent gives his/her children a life of being constantly on the run. You are also imposing on people by trying to make them accept the precense of mages while they still fear magic.

It would not go down well with those who fear and mistrust mages due to a thousand years of seperation.

Malcolm was condition by the Chantry to view magic as being a "curse". He may of escaped the Circle to be with his lover, but he still has the circle mage like mentality. He maybe physically free, but not mentally. It is diffcult to self-deprogram what was put into your head since day one.

No he wasn't. Malcolm was smart enough to know that his children would have to live a life of hiding, be haunted by demons on a daily bases, and generally not have a true moments of peace as a mage. Not to mention the fact that he was forced to perform blood magic by the Wardens to seal up an original magister. Magic is more of a curse than a blessing overall, it's what an individual does with magic that can make it a blessing. Malcolm Hawke was hardly some weak willed brain washed fool.

[dragonflight288]

Hazegurl wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...
Even Malcolm wished for his children not to bear magic, even though Carver did not wield magic he still felt like he could have a life of his own due to magic running in his family. Plus what sort parent gives his/her children a life of being constantly on the run. You are also imposing on people by trying to make them accept the precense of mages while they still fear magic.

It would not go down well with those who fear and mistrust mages due to a thousand years of seperation.

Malcolm was condition by the Chantry to view magic as being a "curse". He may of escaped the Circle to be with his lover, but he still has the circle mage like mentality. He maybe physically free, but not mentally. It is diffcult to self-deprogram what was put into your head since day one.

No he wasn't. Malcolm was smart enough to know that his children would have to live a life of hiding, be haunted by demons on a daily bases, and generally not have a true moments of peace as a mage. Not to mention the fact that he was forced to perform blood magic by the Wardens to seal up an original magister. Magic is more of a curse than a blessing overall, it's what an individual does with magic that can make it a blessing. Malcolm Hawke was hardly some weak willed brain washed fool.

Indeed.

In fact, he actually sounded like a total bad-a**. He was a mercenary, he escaped the Circle and was never caught (with the aid of a templar who was his friend), he fell in love with a noble woman and spirited her away after a party (she also made the choice), taught his mage child(ren) how to control their magic effectively, and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus.

I like his line in Legacy. "Magic will serve what is best in me, not what is base."

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Indeed.

In fact, he actually sounded like a total bad-a**. He was a mercenary, he escaped the Circle and was never caught (with the aid of a templar who was his friend), he fell in love with a noble woman and spirited her away after a party (she also made the choice), taught his mage child(ren) how to control their magic effectively, and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus.

I like his line in Legacy. "Magic will serve what is best in me, not what is base."

Ditto. Malcolm is pretty much my definition of a good mage. I still get chills in Legacy when I hear him cursing those demons into those prisons.

[Fast Jimmy]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I know. I was disputing Fast Jimmy's claim that the Circle for some reason kept the Hawkes' status as mages secret from the Templars, which they clearly didn't.

Still, we don't have enough examples, especially examples of Orsino/the Circle of Kirkwall, hiding. Mages for it to be assumed any Mage that was hidden was evil and/or dangerous. I'm not saying Orsino was right or wrong in doing so, but I'm just pointing out the gross generalization is problematic as a line for argument. 

[The Flying Grey Warden]

I would say orsino was completely wrong for hiding quintin, seeing how many victims he claimed because of it.

Its like getting a report by John George Haigh about the effectiveness of body dissolving sulfuric acid and the names of people he tested this method on, and just letting things play out without calling the police.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Does it count as support if I'm only doing it because it makes fanatically pro mage people raaaaage?

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 16 décembre 2013 - 06:13 .

[TK514]

dragonflight288 wrote...
... and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus

I got the impression his involvement with the Wardens had nothing to do with him being some awesome mage, and everything to do with him being an apostate who was completely and utterly vulnerable to their leverage.  They couldn't have asked for a better extortion and blackmail victim if they'd made a list of desirable traits.

[HiroVoid]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Does it count as support if I'm only doing it because it makes fanatically pro mage people raaaaage?

Listen to yourself!  You've been indoctrinated by the chantry!

[Hazegurl]

TK514 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
... and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus

I got the impression his involvement with the Wardens had nothing to do with him being some awesome mage, and everything to do with him being an apostate who was completely and utterly vulnerable to their leverage.  They couldn't have asked for a better extortion and blackmail victim if they'd made a list of desirable traits.

I doubt any run of the mill mage could do it. There are so many apostates to choose from, including among the Grey Wardens so I don't think that's the only trait they were looking for.

[Medhia Nox]

@HiroVoid: Maybe he's a rage demon - don't judge!

[Hellion Rex]

Hazegurl wrote...

TK514 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
... and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus

I got the impression his involvement with the Wardens had nothing to do with him being some awesome mage, and everything to do with him being an apostate who was completely and utterly vulnerable to their leverage.  They couldn't have asked for a better extortion and blackmail victim if they'd made a list of desirable traits.

I doubt any run of the mill mage could do it. There are so many apostates to choose from, including among the Grey Wardens so I don't think that's the only trait they were looking for.

But why necessarily look for Malcolm, though? How would they learn of his "reputation"?

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@HiroVoid: Maybe he's a rage demon - don't judge!

We must destroy all threats to our pro mage power!!!!!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@HiroVoid: Maybe he's a rage demon - don't judge!

Their rage sustains me.

Tastes like cinnamon.

[Hazegurl]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Indeed.

In fact, he actually sounded like a total bad-a**. He was a mercenary, he escaped the Circle and was never caught (with the aid of a templar who was his friend), he fell in love with a noble woman and spirited her away after a party (she also made the choice), taught his mage child(ren) how to control their magic effectively, and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus.

I like his line in Legacy. "Magic will serve what is best in me, not what is base."

Ditto. Malcolm is pretty much my definition of a good mage. I still get chills in Legacy when I hear him cursing those demons into those prisons.

Right. Malcolm was a pretty badass person, he seemed to have lived his life the way he wanted to instead of the way the Chantry told him he had to. Every mage should live up to his example and take his motto to heart. His voice also gave me chills in Legacy. I'm sort of hoping he's the voice actor for the human male Inquisitor.

The cursing of the demons was awesome. Malcolm seemed like he could have been a force to be reckoned with in his day. It's no wonder the Wardens had to threaten his wife instead of taking him by force.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: I'm just letting the templars and mages go at it to get rid of sub-par mages so I can reforge the mage Circle in my own image.

Oh, and also to feed Grand Admiral Cheesecake the rage of mages.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Medhia Nox wrote...



Oh, and also to feed Grand Admiral Cheesecake the rage of mages.

No! Not mages! Most mages are relatively tolerable to decent (Except for DA2 but well... it's DA2)

I feed on the rage of overzealous pro mage people!

I'd feed on the rage of overzealous Templar supporters but there aren't enough of them for a stable diet.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 16 décembre 2013 - 06:50 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Grand Admiral Cheesecake: Well, still - hang around me, nothing seems to ****** them off more than a mage player who doesn't agree with them.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 16 décembre 2013 - 06:52 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Grand Admiral Cheesecake: Well, still - hang around me, nothing seems to ****** them off more than a mage player who doesn't agree with them.

Eh I'll just wait for someone to project a little too much of their RL issues onto the Mage/Templar conflict, it always leads to good things.

[Hazegurl]

eluvianix wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

TK514 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
... and was skilled enough, or had enough of a reputation to those in the know that the Grey Wardens effectively singled him out to do blood magic and seal Corypheus

I got the impression his involvement with the Wardens had nothing to do with him being some awesome mage, and everything to do with him being an apostate who was completely and utterly vulnerable to their leverage.  They couldn't have asked for a better extortion and blackmail victim if they'd made a list of desirable traits.

I doubt any run of the mill mage could do it. There are so many apostates to choose from, including among the Grey Wardens so I don't think that's the only trait they were looking for.

But why necessarily look for Malcolm, though? How would they learn of his "reputation"?

I have no clue. It could just be a "plot reason" or more to it. But IMO it makes no sense to do so much to get Malcolm to do it if any mage could. Why threaten his wife?

The Wardens can recruit mages at will. Why not just recruit one and make him reseal it then let him go through the joining after?

Then there is Janeka who was a powerful mage yet failed outright in controlling Corypheus and got herself possessed. Malcolm had to have been more powerful than her at least. But then again he was only resealing him, not trying to control him.

[Medhia Nox]

That NEVER happens here on the BSN.

[Lord Raijin]

Hazegurl wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...
Even Malcolm wished for his children not to bear magic, even though Carver did not wield magic he still felt like he could have a life of his own due to magic running in his family. Plus what sort parent gives his/her children a life of being constantly on the run. You are also imposing on people by trying to make them accept the precense of mages while they still fear magic.

It would not go down well with those who fear and mistrust mages due to a thousand years of seperation.

Malcolm was condition by the Chantry to view magic as being a "curse". He may of escaped the Circle to be with his lover, but he still has the circle mage like mentality. He maybe physically free, but not mentally. It is diffcult to self-deprogram what was put into your head since day one.

No he wasn't. Malcolm was smart enough to know that his children would have to live a life of hiding, be haunted by demons on a daily bases, and generally not have a true moments of peace as a mage. Not to mention the fact that he was forced to perform blood magic by the Wardens to seal up an original magister. Magic is more of a curse than a blessing overall, it's what an individual does with magic that can make it a blessing. Malcolm Hawke was hardly some weak willed brain washed fool.

But if Malcolm truly believes that his magic is a curse and wishes this on nobody then why was he willing take the risk to pass this "genetic flaw" down to the next generation? With his genetics and the genetics of his lover (whos line was strong for carrying the mage gene) he aided in producing a mage child(ren).

Compairing Malcolm to someone like Morrigan, who was never been exposed by the Chantry and their brainwashing facilities: The Circle it's safe to say that Malcolm is indeed condition to think that his magic is a curse because that is what the Chantry had taught him during his stay in the Circle, and that is what he was programmed to believe. The fact that he felt guilty and ashamed for using blood magic which was used to aid the Grey Wardens to seal up an original magister further proves it because after all the Chantry frowns on anyone who uses blood magic that doesn't benefit themselves.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Medhia Nox wrote...

That NEVER happens here on the BSN.

Ah of course not!

The BSN is just a bastion for the Warriors of Social Justice and their brave stand against Vidya Gaem bigotry!

There has never and will never be any projection issue related b*tch fests!

[HiroVoid]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...
Even Malcolm wished for his children not to bear magic, even though Carver did not wield magic he still felt like he could have a life of his own due to magic running in his family. Plus what sort parent gives his/her children a life of being constantly on the run. You are also imposing on people by trying to make them accept the precense of mages while they still fear magic.

It would not go down well with those who fear and mistrust mages due to a thousand years of seperation.

Malcolm was condition by the Chantry to view magic as being a "curse". He may of escaped the Circle to be with his lover, but he still has the circle mage like mentality. He maybe physically free, but not mentally. It is diffcult to self-deprogram what was put into your head since day one.

No he wasn't. Malcolm was smart enough to know that his children would have to live a life of hiding, be haunted by demons on a daily bases, and generally not have a true moments of peace as a mage. Not to mention the fact that he was forced to perform blood magic by the Wardens to seal up an original magister. Magic is more of a curse than a blessing overall, it's what an individual does with magic that can make it a blessing. Malcolm Hawke was hardly some weak willed brain washed fool.

But if Malcolm truly believes that his magic is a curse and wishes this on nobody then why was he willing take the risk to pass this "genetic flaw" down to the next generation? With his genetics and the genetics of his lover (whos line was strong for carrying the mage gene) he aided in producing a mage child(ren).

Compairing Malcolm to someone like Morrigan, who was never been exposed by the Chantry and their brainwashing facilities: The Circle it's safe to say that Malcolm is indeed condition to think that his magic is a curse because that is what the Chantry had taught him during his stay in the Circle, and that is what he was programmed to believe. The fact that he felt guilty and ashamed for using blood magic which was used to aid the Grey Wardens to seal up an original magister further proves it because after all the Chantry frowns on anyone who uses blood magic that doesn't benefit themselves.

Actually, if you question Morrigan about it, she'll actually say the Chantry might have a point with mages or abominations being dangerous, but ultimately, that freedom's more important to her.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 16 décembre 2013 - 07:03 .

[Lord Raijin]

HiroVoid wrote...
Actually, if you question Morrigan about it, she'll actually say the Chantry might have a point with mages or abominations being dangerous, but ultimately, that freedom's more important to her.

I never heard her saying anything about that. Do you have a transcript of this by any chance?