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[Cainhurst Crow]

It doesn't matter, all of them will be put to the sword.

[Hellion Rex]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

It doesn't matter, all of them will be put to the sword.

Down, boy. Not all mages deserve the sword.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Adrian is an unresonable, hate filled, warmongering, cowardly, manipulative extremist who revels in her perceived superiority; believes the best way to dispell fear and suspicion is to flash fire in the face of normal people; sends fellow mages to die for the cause while she reaps the benefits; etc. She is an example of the worst mages can give to Thedas.

Yeah, she's not quite my go to example when I am thinking of a "good mage".

[Cainhurst Crow]

Mages, templars, random livestock, who can tell the difference? I know I can't.

[Lord Raijin]

AresKeith wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Why such hate over Adrian when it was Rhys final vote that lead to an all out war.

Only because Adrian forced this conflict by killing Pharamond. Rhys was out of options at that point. War was the last option they had left.

Uh didn't Pharamond begged Adrian to kill him? He did not want to become tranquil again. He even begged Cole to kill him in his dark cell. I consider his death as an act of mercy, not murder or a assasination. Who the hell wants to become an emotionless freak? And Ryhs, as the new representives of a far greater group had the final choice of surrendering to the templars/seekers/Chantry... but what came out of his mouth was "Let's fight". He initiated the fight, Not Adrian.

It really doesn't matter whether or not he begged Adrian to kill him (I can't remember if he did, but I doubt it)

It's the fact that she framed Ryhs for it that led into him voting to fight, it also led into Wynne's death which played a part

No. Wynne's death did not play a part for what Adrian did. Wynne had a mind of her own, and she was even planning for this day when she stashed away that dark staff that made her go insane, as she started attacking Cole. She decided to transfere the spirit that kept her alive for so long into Evangeline, after Lambert slained her during an altercation. She realize that this Templar woman meant a lot to her son, and therefour she decided to sacrifice her life to bring life to a mundane.

Adrian did some pretty foul things, like framing Rhys, but that is not why Rhys made his final decision at Androal's Reach.

[AlexanderCousland]

 The civil rights of Mage's are irrelevant to the fact's of the situation. You don't start throwin Fireballs at Templars because the Lord Seeker wants to arrest someone. Fiona and Adrian didn't exactly help matter's either, preaching against Templar's and The Chantry in The White Spire of all places, How stupid can you be?

Modifié par FreshIstay, 21 décembre 2013 - 10:04 .

[dragonflight288]

FreshIstay wrote...

Libertarians hired Mage Assassins to stir up the Conclave to provoke the War, Inevitable considering Kirkwall. The civil rights of Mage's are irrelevant to the fact's of the situation. You don't start throwin Fireballs at Templars because the Lord Seeker wants to arrest someone. Fiona and Adrian didn't exactly help matter's either, preaching against Templar's and The Chantry in The White Spire of all places, How stupid can you be?

And Lambert and the templars ignored the orders of the Divine and illegally tried to break up the conclave after things didn't go his way in the earlier meeting with her, and started killing mages for no official reason.

Both sides are full of bad apples.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Libertarians hired Mage Assassins to stir up the Conclave to provoke the War, Inevitable considering Kirkwall. The civil rights of Mage's are irrelevant to the fact's of the situation. You don't start throwin Fireballs at Templars because the Lord Seeker wants to arrest someone. Fiona and Adrian didn't exactly help matter's either, preaching against Templar's and The Chantry in The White Spire of all places, How stupid can you be?

And Lambert and the templars ignored the orders of the Divine and illegally tried to break up the conclave after things didn't go his way in the earlier meeting with her, and started killing mages for no official reason.

Both sides are full of bad apples.

Arguably the second the mages began discussing treason it would be the duty of the Templars to break up the meeting. And you know perfectly well, that Templars in the White Spire did not start killing mages "just because", so why are you trying to make it appear as such?

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Libertarians hired Mage Assassins to stir up the Conclave to provoke the War, Inevitable considering Kirkwall. The civil rights of Mage's are irrelevant to the fact's of the situation. You don't start throwin Fireballs at Templars because the Lord Seeker wants to arrest someone. Fiona and Adrian didn't exactly help matter's either, preaching against Templar's and The Chantry in The White Spire of all places, How stupid can you be?

And Lambert and the templars ignored the orders of the Divine and illegally tried to break up the conclave after things didn't go his way in the earlier meeting with her, and started killing mages for no official reason.

Both sides are full of bad apples.

Arguably the second the mages began discussing treason it would be the duty of the Templars to break up the meeting. And you know perfectly well, that Templars in the White Spire did not start killing mages "just because", so why are you trying to make it appear as such?

Only Fiona and several mages began to talk of separating in that conclave. And when Lambert came, Fiona asked that the Templars allow the mages their right to the conclave, as had been allowed by Justinia. The duty of the Templars was to obey the wishes of the Divine, their boss.

Modifié par eluvianix, 21 décembre 2013 - 10:14 .

[AlexanderCousland]

dragonflight288 wrote...

And Lambert and the templars ignored the orders of the Divine and illegally tried to break up the conclave after things didn't go his way in the earlier meeting with her, and started killing mages for no official reason.

Both sides are full of bad apples

Lambert didn't illegally do anything. He was well within his rights to stop that conclave, dont make me post the drivel Adrian and Fiona were spewing before that all went down. Adrian killed Pharamon <THAT is why the conclave ended the way it did. 

Modifié par FreshIstay, 21 décembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[Hellion Rex]

FreshIstay wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

And Lambert and the templars ignored the orders of the Divine and illegally tried to break up the conclave after things didn't go his way in the earlier meeting with her, and started killing mages for no official reason.

Both sides are full of bad apples

Lambert didn't illegally do anything. He was well within his rights to stop that conclave, dont make me post the drivel Adrian and Fiona were spewing before that all went down. Adrian killed Pharamon, THAT is why the conclave ended the way it did. 

Number one, he had no idea that it was Adrian, and not Rhys. Nobody had known what had truly occurred until the end of the novel. Two, Lambert should have obeyed the orders of the Divine, his boss.

[Lord Raijin]

I'm so glad Lambert got what he deserve at the end of the novel. Good work Cole

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I'm so glad Lambert got what he deserve at the end of the novel. Good work Cole

Except, I think Lambert might still be alive in some form, considering he is listed as MIA, and not dead.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I'm so glad Lambert got what he deserve at the end of the novel. Good work Cole

Except, I think Lambert might still be alive in some form, considering he is listed as MIA, and not dead.

And I am of the belief that he has actually been possessed by Cole.

[AlexanderCousland]

eluvianix wrote...

Number one, he had no idea that it was Adrian, and not Rhys. Nobody had known what had truly occurred until the end of the novel. Two, Lambert should have obeyed the orders of the Divine, his boss.

1. The fact that Lambert didn't know who actually killed Pharamon is irrelevant.
2. If Pharamon isn't killed BY ADRIAN Lambert doesn't disturb that conclave, you know it and I know it.
That murder gave him the excuse he was looking for, unfortunately.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 21 décembre 2013 - 10:26 .

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I'm so glad Lambert got what he deserve at the end of the novel. Good work Cole

Except, I think Lambert might still be alive in some form, considering he is listed as MIA, and not dead.

Probably possessed/and or controlled by Cole.


Perhabs Cole is the new antagonist, and at his side is his Seeker thrall

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Libertarians hired Mage Assassins to stir up the Conclave to provoke the War, Inevitable considering Kirkwall. The civil rights of Mage's are irrelevant to the fact's of the situation. You don't start throwin Fireballs at Templars because the Lord Seeker wants to arrest someone. Fiona and Adrian didn't exactly help matter's either, preaching against Templar's and The Chantry in The White Spire of all places, How stupid can you be?

And Lambert and the templars ignored the orders of the Divine and illegally tried to break up the conclave after things didn't go his way in the earlier meeting with her, and started killing mages for no official reason.

Both sides are full of bad apples.

Arguably the second the mages began discussing treason it would be the duty of the Templars to break up the meeting. And you know perfectly well, that Templars in the White Spire did not start killing mages "just because", so why are you trying to make it appear as such?

Only Fiona and several mages began to talk of separating in that conclave. And when Lambert came, Fiona asked that the Templars allow the mages their right to the conclave, as had been allowed by Justinia. The duty of the Templars was to obey the wishes of the Divine, their boss.

That conclave was called to discuss matters of Tranquility. The very second the matter of treason was brought up, any claim the mages had to their "right" to hold the conclave was voided. The Templars acted EXACTLY like they were meant to in this situation.
And technically, as is evidenced by the Nevarran Accord, the Divine is not the boss of the Templars, but they submit themselves to her authority, in accordance with the accord they have signed.

[SeekerOfLight]

Quck question. In DA:O we learned about the chantry comtrolling the templars through their lyrium addiction, so how could the templars split from the chantry if it is the only way for them to get their lyrium fix?

[The Baconer]

helo89 wrote...
Quck question. In DA:O we learned about the chantry comtrolling the templars through their lyrium addiction, so how could the templars split from the chantry if it is the only way for them to get their lyrium fix?

The existence of red templars is most likely one consequence of this.

[Master Warder Z_]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Just because we see red Templar's does not mean that every other Templar out there are snorting up red lyrium to get their next fix. They're bad Templar's and and than they're the good ones, like Evangeline,Thrask and Emeric.

The Templar Order is not a colossal failure, just poorly manage by the wrong set of people. I can only hope that Cullen could wake the hell up and at least try to get the Order back in good health.

Two of the three templars mentioned here are colossal failures as templars.

Trask is a shining example of why you must never befreind those within your charges, there must be clear and defined boundaries between mage and templar and his fate further reinforces that point.

I won't even bother with Evangeline as the second you start sleeping with the charge, things sort of go out the window like common sense and rule of law

[Afro_Explosion]

The Baconer wrote...

helo89 wrote...
Quck question. In DA:O we learned about the chantry comtrolling the templars through their lyrium addiction, so how could the templars split from the chantry if it is the only way for them to get their lyrium fix?

The existence of red templars is most likely one consequence of this.

And you can always get lyrium from the carta.

[Master Warder Z_]

helo89 wrote...

Quck question. In DA:O we learned about the chantry comtrolling the templars through their lyrium addiction, so how could the templars split from the chantry if it is the only way for them to get their lyrium fix?

Both DAO and DA2 showed that the Templars had their own methods of obtaining it with out the chantry, either from smugglers or the carta.

And furthermore if you listen to Petrice, The chantry was getting fed up with the divine that schism would be the ultimate outcome, that likely has occured within DAI.

You very well could have portions of the chantry backing them over the divine.

So to answer your question?

Either through sources entirely independent of the chantry, or through portions of the chantry that broke away along with them.

[SeekerOfLight]

Yeah, I totally get those answers and they make sense from what I've seen in game, but from I've seen that would only work on a small scale. Essentially a black market to support the templars who were in the know and could pay. But, I doubt that it could support the majority of the order.

[The Baconer]

mx_keep13 wrote...
And you can always get lyrium from the carta.

You can always get it if you have the money. Since the Templars are now essentially a bunch of wandering brigrands, all of their expenses are now out of pocket, and they have fewer options for making steady income. While I  certainly believe there are some who have enough money to keep paying for Lyrium in some form, it's probably likely that many turned to red Lyrium, or perhaps bought it as a cheaper alternative, to get their fix.

Or maybe their suppliers could even be "cutting" normal Lyrium with red Lyrium.

[Master Warder Z_]

helo89 wrote...

Yeah, I totally get those answers and they make sense from what I've seen in game, but from I've seen that would only work on a small scale. Essentially a black market to support the templars who were in the know and could pay. But, I doubt that it could support the majority of the order.

You seem to be under the misunderstanding that the Templar Order is subservant to the Chantry, no it willingly bound it self they serve by choice, they are not bound by anything more then a declaration stating they would serve their ends.

So...

You think the Order is poor huh?

The Chantry is extremely wealthy and by extension the order was wealthy, well funded enough to operate 13 circles within White Thedas and a Templar Contingent of several hundred to several thousand a piece.

Now think of a moment of all the lyrium needed across thedas to support many templars? You think if the Templar order didn't have deep pockets it wouldn't be able to purchase lyrium in any quanity from the carta, certainly not enough needed for that army, now think of the official resources the chantry was dumping into the templars for the past thousand years.

Now think of the other alternative, if the chantry was breaking away with the Templars then that wealth needed comes back to them, or if the need arose they could merely fund it themselves. Not indefinately, but they are hardly hurting for money.

I think its safe to say that by the time this war is over? They won't be hurting for lyrium or equipment.