4643 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Congratulations Warden Z, you are the first person I've ever seen, even among Pro-Templars, who approved of Alrik's Tranquil Solution. I honestly thought I'd never see the day when the most abhorrent plan shown in the Dragon Age games to date would see support. And I'm not even a Pro-Mage person.

It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

Now? it couldn't undo the damage done, no instead of sparing the world horrors of it this war; it will have to be won. Through blood and death, destruction and mass slaughter. It would have destroyed the emotions of a few thousand and spared countless others, but its viewed as amoral when in reality it was perhaps the only true path to peace.

You ask me why i approve of it? Because it was one of the few measures if taken that would have prevented it, and if it had gone even further as i had envisioned? It would have spared the world.

http://www.thesquids...eolsolution.jpg

The Rite of Tranquility is cruel and unsual, especially if it's force on a mage. Mages would rather be killed than to become an emotionaless muliated freak.

It is A Fine Ol Solution though ain't it?

Of course the folks at Bioware would never go for it, would wrap up the entire DA plotline they are using now back at DA 2.

No Ideal worlds in any of their games, they always fall to pieces being of a bunch of whining teenagers, overally moralistic hippies or a guy who can kick people's heads of. But i suppose i can take comfort in merely putting down the mage rebellion in DAI.

[wolfhowwl]

Tranquility should only done when it is offered as an alternative to the Harrowing.

All other times it should just be replaced with execution.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Congratulations Warden Z, you are the first person I've ever seen, even among Pro-Templars, who approved of Alrik's Tranquil Solution. I honestly thought I'd never see the day when the most abhorrent plan shown in the Dragon Age games to date would see support. And I'm not even a Pro-Mage person.

It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

Now? it couldn't undo the damage done, no instead of sparing the world horrors of it this war; it will have to be won. Through blood and death, destruction and mass slaughter. It would have destroyed the emotions of a few thousand and spared countless others, but its viewed as amoral when in reality it was perhaps the only true path to peace.

You ask me why i approve of it? Because it was one of the few measures if taken that would have prevented it, and if it had gone even further as i had envisioned? It would have spared the world.

http://www.thesquids...eolsolution.jpg

I disagree. If it was initiated, all it would've done was start the war three years earlier than it did with even more hatred of mages directed at the Templars. Luckily even Knight Commander Meredith, who is as strong a supporter of Templar ideals as you can find, saw that it was a terrible idea which would absolutely cause more harm than good and refused to endorse it. 

[Master Warder Z_]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Tranquility should only done when it is offered as an alternative to the Harrowing.

All other times it should just be replaced with execution.

but in my proposed case it would be the mass execution of the entirity of the college enchanters save the loyalists. Hence the relience upon tranquilty considering that it would preserve the majorities of the circles in some form or another.

Admittedly it might end up like that anyway but i would still at least attempt to preserve some of that talent that is just being shoved down the drain, Tranquil are after all very useful.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Master Warder Z wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

If more Templar's were more like Thrask I would be a Pro-Templar

If more templars were like Thrask then we would already have the rest of thedas turning into the Imperiums centuries before this little rebellion.

No what we need are more men like Lambert, Gegeoir and Alrik.

Gregoir as far i remember his circle was taken by abomnations when he was hiding under the bed besides that circle are failure...

Indeed but rather then pointless hoping for survivors, he requested reinforcements and the right of anullment, his response to a rapidly changing and deteriorating situation was superb.

Not to mention that even before that he was a fairly impartial if effective templar for decades.

Hmm then i just missed army of apostates in ferelden jowan most incompetent in dragon age kicked his and his peoples ass and escaped from tower so he was hardly competent.Im for removing templars and chantry and creating new anti-magical independent organization (something like wardens) instead taking them to circle and wasting money , time and attention that is taken to watch circle simple eliminate mages and new-born mages.So new anti-magical without chantry bullcrap about maker only pure discipline and 0 mercy like wardens to darkspawn.

He was caught off guard likely hadn't expected such an attack as he admited just a handful of seconds after it occured.

And in my ideal templars like the one i advocate for, like the one Lambert advocates for there is no mercy, no comrpomise and no weakeness tolerated because there cannot be any weakeness in a mage; else it is little more then a weapon for a demon to seize.

That said you won't find a magical watch group to just spring from nothingness, the templars have existed for over a thousand years, the people of thedas look to them as the guardians against the threat of magic, so instead of going to the trouble and training a new army to look after mages, why not simply change the dogma of the templars?

It likely would be a far easier and cheaper task.

Well templars are tied to chantry and their belives (well if we aren't talking about new divine) and i want bring chantry down and set up things in my way simple for my benefit and current templars aren't very stable many of them is corrupted others are unnecessarily violent what isn't good for business and others are too merciful and now we have red lyrium adding to that most templar is indoctrinated by chantry.Simple i won't be anymore religious organization they will be hunters something like justicars just more ruthless by training them from the youngest to kill mages and be killing machines.  

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Congratulations Warden Z, you are the first person I've ever seen, even among Pro-Templars, who approved of Alrik's Tranquil Solution. I honestly thought I'd never see the day when the most abhorrent plan shown in the Dragon Age games to date would see support. And I'm not even a Pro-Mage person.

It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

Now? it couldn't undo the damage done, no instead of sparing the world horrors of it this war; it will have to be won. Through blood and death, destruction and mass slaughter. It would have destroyed the emotions of a few thousand and spared countless others, but its viewed as amoral when in reality it was perhaps the only true path to peace.

You ask me why i approve of it? Because it was one of the few measures if taken that would have prevented it, and if it had gone even further as i had envisioned? It would have spared the world.

http://www.thesquids...eolsolution.jpg

I disagree. If it was initiated, all it would've done was start the war three years earlier than it did with even more hatred of mages directed at the Templars. Luckily even Knight Commander Meredith, who is as strong a supporter of Templar ideals as you can find, saw that it was a terrible idea which would absolutely cause more harm than good and refused to endorse it. 

With out the college of enchanters to direct their efforts, it would have been little more then mass disorgnized rabble that would have been run down within six months. After all note my prefered target, not the mages that make up the majority of the circle, not the apprentices or even low level enchanters.

Senior enchanters, first enchanters, the grand enchanters.

Namely the most powerful mages within a circle, I stated thousands because i expect resistance to the plan but even with resistance i have little doubt it would succede once begun considering the remote locations of the circles with out methods of escape the templars can merely collapse the structures if it became needed and then the plan is complete.

And then it has a side effect to the rebellion situation you proposed.

There would be no chrismatic leader to sway the enchanters to their side, there would be no assembly of a proper rebellion, no instead of expreinced mages? you would have children fighting against the templars in their place.

You want to call that a rebellion? Go ahead, i call it an exercise in futility.

I have given this matter proper thought, even with resistance it ultimately wouldn't matter.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Congratulations Warden Z, you are the first person I've ever seen, even among Pro-Templars, who approved of Alrik's Tranquil Solution. I honestly thought I'd never see the day when the most abhorrent plan shown in the Dragon Age games to date would see support. And I'm not even a Pro-Mage person.

It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

Now? it couldn't undo the damage done, no instead of sparing the world horrors of it this war; it will have to be won. Through blood and death, destruction and mass slaughter. It would have destroyed the emotions of a few thousand and spared countless others, but its viewed as amoral when in reality it was perhaps the only true path to peace.

You ask me why i approve of it? Because it was one of the few measures if taken that would have prevented it, and if it had gone even further as i had envisioned? It would have spared the world.

http://www.thesquids...eolsolution.jpg

I disagree. If it was initiated, all it would've done was start the war three years earlier than it did with even more hatred of mages directed at the Templars. Luckily even Knight Commander Meredith, who is as strong a supporter of Templar ideals as you can find, saw that it was a terrible idea which would absolutely cause more harm than good and refused to endorse it. 

With out the college of enchanters to direct their efforts, it would have been little more then mass disorgnized rabble that would have been run down within six months. After all note my prefered target, not the mages that make up the majority of the circle, not the apprentices or even low level enchanters.

Senior enchanters, first enchanters, the grand enchanters.

Namely the most powerful mages within a circle, I stated thousands because i expect resistance to the plan but even with resistance i have little doubt it would succede once begun considering the remote locations of the circles with out methods of escape the templars can merely collapse the structures if it became needed and then the plan is complete.

And then it has a side effect to the rebellion situation you proposed.

There would be no chrismatic leader to sway the enchanters to their side, there would be no assembly of a proper rebellion, no instead of expreinced mages? you would have children fighting against the templars in their place.

You want to call that a rebellion? Go ahead, i call it an exercise in futility.

I have given this matter proper thought, even with resistance it ultimately wouldn't matter.

Your plan has two simple flaws, first being that when you go to Tranquilize the leading members of the Circles, you are going against the strongest members and none of them would just stand there and let it happen to them. At worst, they would hold out long enough for the rest of the Circle to be alerted and reinforce them. And while some circles like Kirkwall would fall to the Templars due to sheer might of the Templars there, not all Circles are that fortified or stock that many Templars. Look at Ferelden. The Templars couldn't fight through, and that was when mages were fighting each other. Your idea would have them all unite and thus easily eliminate the Templars stationed there and scatter into the wilderness before Templar reinforcements arrived. As for the no charismatic leader, that's proposterous. Leaders will always emerge. Every First Enchanter was a simple Apprentice at some point. Heck, even Hawke and most Wardens have humble origins, never expecting much greatness from them and yet they became the most influential people in Ferelden and the Free Marches. Leaders would rise, there is no doubt. 

Another possible downside would be lack of public support. While the destruction of a Chantry would rally the people behind the Templars in retribution, while something like the Tranquil Solution would more likely than not actually give puiblic support in favor of the Mage rebels. Every mage has a family who most likely wouldn't want their son/daughter turned into an emotionless shell, and that family has friends who would support them as well. So at best, the Mages would have nonmage supporters helping them out, and at worst those people would actually fight the Templars as well and the Pro-Templarcitizens would rally behind them, causing even more bloodshed than the current rebellion will. So overall, the Tranquil Solution would in fact do the exact opposite of what you believe it would: throw the world in more chaos.

[SgtSteel91]

I can't actually believe that there are people behind the "Tranquil Solution."

I know my Hawke would right back agains the Templars if that was actually put into effect. He doesn't want Bethany to be made Tranquil.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 22 décembre 2013 - 04:45 .

[The Baconer]

Master Warder Z wrote...
It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

It couldn't be final, because mages will still be born. From what we know, only mundaneness is potentially curable, at least for humans, elves, and qunari.

[TheKomandorShepard]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I can't actually believe that there are people behind the "Tranquil Solution."

I know my Hawke would right back agains the Templars if that was actually put into effect. He doesn't want Bethany to be made Tranquil.

And why they shouldn't be for normal human such solution would be nothing more than benefit... i m not for tranquil solution because it will take only money and lyrium when i can achieve smiliar results with killing them.

The Baconer wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

It
couldn't be final, because mages will still be born. From what we know,
only mundaneness is potentially curable, at least for humans, elves,
and qunari.

Still you can kill them i don't see any obstacles

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 décembre 2013 - 04:48 .

[Hellion Rex]

The Baconer wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
It's the final solution to this problem as far as i am concerned or at least it was in hindsight at least.

It couldn't be final, because mages will still be born. From what we know, only mundaneness is potentially curable, at least for humans, elves, and qunari.

What do you mean, "mundaneless is potentially curable?"

Modifié par eluvianix, 22 décembre 2013 - 04:59 .

[The Baconer]

eluvianix wrote...
What do you mean, "mundaneless is potentially curable?"

We haven't had an example of two mages giving birth to a mundane yet. At least I haven't seen one or don't remember one.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: He's either suggesting that "mage" is a dominant trait (we have zero proof of this) or that Magetopia will happen where all mundanes will be awoken to magic.

Both are pretty much headcanon.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: He's either suggesting that "mage" is a dominant trait (we have zero proof of this) or that Magetopia will happen where all mundanes will be awoken to magic.

Both are pretty much headcanon.

Don't worry. I shall have my Magetopia or Dragontopia by the end of Inquisition.


Edit: I think we will have some serious world change put into place by the game's end. Either we are going to have the Veil entirely destroyed or it sealed back tight. Either way, I feel there is going to be a major change to shake up the next installment.

Modifié par eluvianix, 22 décembre 2013 - 05:07 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

I don't subscribe to magic being a genetic trait. It would leave too many questions such as how such a genetic trait has been so widespread throughout thedas? How the quanri who had no contact and possible cannot concieve with humans have mages within their society? How tevinters genetic material has not deteriorated/inbreed over these years to have strange effects on the magic genes? And a whole slew of other questions such as non-mages giving birth to mages, and mages giving birth to non-mages, that can't be accounted by simple pass-over or recessive traits.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Yes, yes - you and your herpetology fetish.

[Hellion Rex]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't subscribe to magic being a genetic trait. It would leave too many questions such as how such a genetic trait has been so widespread throughout thedas? How the quanri who had no contact and possible cannot concieve with humans have mages within their society? How tevinters genetic material has not deteriorated/inbreed over these years to have strange effects on the magic genes? And a whole slew of other questions such as non-mages giving birth to mages, and mages giving birth to non-mages, that can't be accounted by simple pass-over or recessive traits.

I agree. Magic is not necessarily hereditary, but having mage parents does seem to increase the possibility of a child having the gift.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Yes, yes - you and your herpetology fetish.

Join me and Cullen.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Hmm... you make sense.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Hmm... you make sense.

Join me and the fabulous Cullen.

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Join me and the fabulous Cullen.

Must resist temptation to post sparkling Edward.....

Modifié par Veruin, 22 décembre 2013 - 05:24 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Join me and the fabulous Cullen.

Must resist temptation to post sparkiling Edward.....

I will slay you where you stand.

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

I will slay you where you stand.

Well, you can't say fabulous and NOT expect me to think of sparkles.  That Fabulous Da2 mod ruined the word for me.

The Baconer wrote...
We haven't had an example of two mages giving birth to a mundane yet. At least I haven't seen one or don't remember one. 

Do we even know of a couple that are both mages and had a child?  Excluding wardenXMorrigan?

Modifié par Veruin, 22 décembre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I will slay you where you stand.

Well, you can't say fabulous and NOT expect me to think of sparkles.  That Fabulous Da2 mod ruined the word for me.

Cullen is my everything. Don't you dare say anything to tarnish his glorious magnificence.

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Cullen is my everything. Don't you dare say anything to tarnish his glorious magnificence.

Pfft, take him.  You can take all of them.  I don't care for any of them.

Modifié par Veruin, 22 décembre 2013 - 05:31 .